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Old 07-09-2002, 12:40 AM   #1
OnTheGas
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Question Return To 3 Car Teams in F1 in 2003?

Bernie Ecclestone has proposed a radical shake-up which could take place as early as next season, in an article at SportBusiness .

Quote:
Bernie Ecclestone
Instead of two it will be three... It will probably be three drivers and three cars and probably happen next year, but we'll have to wait and see.

It makes it more competitive because the teams will run three cars, so there will be another seven competitive cars we could run. In fact, when we started the championships I think there might have been three.

We need 18 to 20 cars. Unfortunately we got one down to 22, so if we lose Arrows, we'll have 20 and if we lose Minardi we will have 18. I think in the end their fortunes will improve through the winter.
Article by Sarah Gerlis
sarahg@sportbusiness.com at http://www.sportbusiness.com/news/in...item_id=147495
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Old 07-09-2002, 07:42 AM   #2
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Boy the FIA is confusing the heck out'a me... passing the one engine rule to try to reduce costs, then this which will increase operating costs for teams by a huge margin!

Just the same, could be cool. I've watched a few races in the past where teams had three cars entered and, if I recall correctly ('twas awhile back) they were pretty good races.

-tim
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Old 07-09-2002, 12:08 PM   #3
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Should set off quite a scrum for the third position for the top teams. Paging Mr. Webber...

Kevin
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Old 07-09-2002, 01:22 PM   #4
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Question

Now, I need to familiarize myself with the rule book, but you can run 3 cars now if you want to/can afford to, can't you?
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Old 07-09-2002, 02:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by gtguy
Should set off quite a scrum for the third position for the top teams. Paging Mr. Webber...

Kevin
Not really, the top six teams already have a third 'test' driver under contract, Ferrari & Williams has two.
Ferrari - Badoer, Burti
Williams - Gene, Pizzonia
McLaren - Wurz
Jordan - Zonta
Renault - Alonso (Already contracted to race in '03)
BAR - Manning

Bill
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Old 07-09-2002, 04:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by jonesi


Not really, the top six teams already have a third 'test' driver under contract, Ferrari & Williams has two.
Ferrari - Badoer, Burti
Williams - Gene, Pizzonia
McLaren - Wurz
Jordan - Zonta
Renault - Alonso (Already contracted to race in '03)
BAR - Manning

Bill
Dunno about that one...test drivers are often test drivers for a valid reason. I doubt that Ferrari would want either Burti or Badoer, for example, flying Scuderia colors when the red lights go off, though their characteristics as drivers make them excellent test mules.

Indeed there are some exceptions, however, just as there are racing drivers who also test well, though not all do. Of course, it would also depend upon what that third driver was expected to do during the race.

On another note, I can't see any of the marginal teams surviving that one. It's already expensive as hell to get your butt handed to you by Ferrari. An extravagantly-priced sport would get even more so. And who really wants to see THREE Minardis, though that would be one more driver to go out early during qualifying, and lay some rubber down.

Kevin
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Old 07-09-2002, 06:48 PM   #7
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Why is Benie saying 7 more competitive cars? It would be hard to say there are 7 competitive teams. But if he is hinting that only 7 teams may survive, then their would be 21 cars, and he said they need 18-20. Maybe I'm pesimistic, but alot of teams are barely making it and the big corps won't pay to lose forever, aka Ford.

Ed

My spelling sucks!
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Old 07-09-2002, 10:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by ecfitzgerald
It would be hard to say there are 7 competitive teams.
Ed, I think you're right... To be more accurate, Bernie could have said, "7 well funded teams."

But lets look at that number of new cars he foresees, 7.

Bernie says that if Arrows and Minardi fall away, then their will be 18 cars on the grid. Those 18 cars belong to 9 teams, so he must be figuring that 2 teams would not enter a 3rd car.

Perhaps this is what Bernie sees:
  • Ferrari - 3 cars
  • Williams - 3 cars
  • McLaren - 3 cars
  • Renault - 3 cars
  • Toyota - 3 cars
  • Jaguar - 3 cars
  • BAR - 3 cars
  • Sauber - 2 cars
  • Jordan - 2 cars
That is a grid of 25 cars.

In this case, the disadvantage of running 2 cars during Friday and Saturday practice sessions will likely hurt qualifying and race performance. Therefore a lessor funded, 2 car team may be at more of a disadvantage. So the playing field could be less level for talented but poor teams such as Arrows, Sauber, and Jordan. Which means that it would be easier for low budget teams to give up, and harder for new teams to join the grid.

Would Bernie try to level the field by requiring that only two drivers be nominated to score constructor's points a la WRC? I don't think that would help 2 car teams very much, and it would add an element of confusion for the fans.

Perhaps Bernie is thinking that he will have a 21 car field, and that Jordan and Sauber will go away.

Quote:
Originally posted by ecfitzgerald
Maybe I'm pesimistic, but alot of teams are barely making it and the big corps won't pay to lose forever, aka Ford.
A very good point, Ed... F1 would be perhaps more vulnerable if a major corporation, or two, were to give up the F1 game suddenly (which does happen sometimes). F1 could see grids come down to 15 cars.

Those specuations are certainly pessimistic. OTH, there are some obvious advantages, one of which is that 9 to 12 cars, (which is 3 to 4 teams), could be competitive for points and podiums on any given weekend, which would be a good thing overall. Another advantage is that the grid would likely fill back out to 25 cars, which is good, too.

My fear is that the positive advantages may be short-term. Over the long term, F1 could be more vulnerable to economic downturns, and less friendly to new teams.
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Old 07-09-2002, 11:02 PM   #9
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Cool that might be good for McLaren

Maybe Hakkinen would return with fellow Finn Raikkonen and Coulthard and then MB would get their shiznit together and take care of business.
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Old 07-10-2002, 02:17 AM   #10
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What with Prost's failure, Arrows being between a rock and a hard place, Minardi barely alive, and Jordan looking like they MIGHT be in trouble (potential loss of eight cars), I thing its pretty obvious that Bernie just wants to make sure there is a full field of cars.

Personally I would love to see 3 Ferraris, Williams, & McLarens. Hopefully then we will see more wheel-to-wheel racing and less parading around. However unless they also take significant steps to reduce some of the costs of racing, I doubt many sponsours will be especially eager to foot the additional bills.
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Old 07-10-2002, 03:05 PM   #11
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Oh man, three Ferrari's. Now two guys might have to pull over to let Schuey win.
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Old 07-11-2002, 12:23 PM   #12
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Default Perhaps for BAR

if J.V. wasn't raping BAR for a salary of 18 million + a year for his piss poor driving, they could use it on car developement. I think it would be more interesting if they had point availability something like NASCAR. I know they're working on it, but they really need to develope an recruit an American driver for the less knowledgeable racing fans to identify with and perhaps gain a larger viewing in the USA.
Just my opinion, it's free, take it for what it's worth...

I still think the the Las Vegas Grand Prix on the streets of Vegas would be wayyyyyy cool.
Laguna Seca?
Watkins Glen?
Sears Point?
Lime Rock.....
Oh wait...................Sebring!!!!!

Last edited by callawayv; 07-11-2002 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 07-11-2002, 04:22 PM   #13
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The more i think about it, the more i like the idea of 3 drivers per team. There would be more rookies who could develop on good teams like Ferrari, Williams and Mclaren, bringing more talent and therefore more exciting races for our viewing pleasure.

On the other hand it would cost a boatload for some of the teams.
It could also make things less competitive. Having 3 ferraris on the podium nearly every race would suck.
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Old 07-11-2002, 05:02 PM   #14
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the only way that 3driver teams would work is if either only 2 drivers can score points (ala wrc) or if you give points to more than the top 6 positions.

-dave
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Old 07-12-2002, 12:54 PM   #15
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This is a lot like what the BTCC was facing back in '98/'99. There were eight factory-backed two-car teams plus privateers in '98, which fell to six in '99 and I believe three in 2000 (then with some three-car teams). The sport had to reinvent itself with much cheaper, slightly smaller and slower cars. This has helped attract more/new manufacturers to participate with cheaper cars that wouldn't have been competitve before.

Tho I am led to believe BTCC is fairing better than it was a few years ago, there's sort of a "the heyday is over" feeling.. Nothing beat a full grid of pissed, semi-bloated SuperTouring cars back in '97/'98 with Murray Walker at the helm commentating.

F1 may be facing this same situation. I think the only way to fix this is to lower the costs.. F1 should remain the pinnacle of motorsport, but the costs involved are absolutely insane. The current system will only further separate the haves from the have nots, and net us more Alex Yoongs that can't even make the grid in a dry session..

We'll see. The FIA does what it damn well pleases, intelligent or no.

lb
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