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Old 01-20-2011, 08:48 PM   #1
paul@YimiSport.com
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Default Killer B Motorsport Header tested by Yimi Sport Tuning: 20G on E85 = 423whp/438wtq

Location:Yimi Sport Tuning, Santa Clarita, CA
Ambient Temp: 70*F
Elevation: 1200ft ASL

Car: 2008 Subaru WRX STI
Tuner: Paul Leung
Dyno Info: DynoJet
Peak HP at RPM: 423 whp @ 5700 rpm
Baseline HP for a stock car: 240-245 whp
Target Boost: 23 psi tapering to 20 psi
Target AFR: 12:1 (gasoline equivalent AFR)
Fuel: E85

Engine/Power Modifications:
Killer B Motorsport header
Killer B Ultimate Oil Pickup
Synergy Turbo TD06-20G 8cm 2.4" inlet IWG
Deatschwerks 1000 CC injectors
Walbro 255 FP
TGV deletes
Yimi Sport custom 73mm CAI
Grimmspeed EBCS
Invidia catless downpipe
Custom Yimi Sport/Hushpower catback
Yimi Sport Air/Oil Separator
Cobb AccessPort

Chris at Killer B Motorsport approached us some time ago about testing their new header. We recently finally found some time to complete some back to back testing of the Killer B header versus the stock header on the same car on the same day.

Here are the results:


Here are the results from the run with the Killer B header by itself:


The test car belongs to our head mechanic who has run it in a variety of track events regularly. It made for an excellent subject because tuning wise it is in many ways "maxed out". Boost is essentially maxed out past torque peak. We can't get any more positive manifold pressure out of it so the results basically couldn't be skewed by increasing boost via the tune... because I can't Similarly, with the incredible knock resistance of the E85 fuel being run, timing could be increased to the point where adding more had no impact on power. Of course I backed the ignition advance off to just below MBT but again there isn't any way to fudge the results via tuning changes. Lastly, being a MAF based car fueling is consistent as well too as seen in the AFR plot.

Long story short, the runs were made within roughly 1.5 hours of each other with no tuning changes at all. Boost, AFR, ignition timing and cam timing were constant between runs. I felt that this best isolated the change in total system VE (and resultant power difference) to the header. It is possible that a change in cam timing could have either increased or decreased the delta in power due to changes in backpressure and/or pulse tuning, but frankly I felt that any change would be small enough to not warrant further complicating the results.

The end results largely speak for themselves. 15whp/27wtq gains from the header swap with slightly improved boost threshold and significantly more area under the curve. Never bad when bolting on a part yields more power everywhere

Speaking of bolting on, the Killer Bee header was a pleasure to install. Fitment was spot on, and from the time we took the car off the dyno to having it strapped back on and ready to go was roughly an hour and a half.

Here is a pic of the header installed (no pic of the stock manifold since we all know what that looks like )



A vid of the run with the Killer B header as well:
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:23 PM   #2
juanmedina
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and uppipe
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:51 PM   #3
paul@YimiSport.com
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
and uppipe
True. Forgot about that. The car had a Titek UP on it with the stock manifold. Negligible difference.
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:55 PM   #4
turbomack
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Paul,

I"m lovin that Synergy turbo, and Custom Intake!!!!

Mack


Quote:
Originally Posted by paul@YimiSport.com View Post
True. Forgot about that. The car had a Titek UP on it with the stock manifold. Negligible difference.
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:14 AM   #5
pooster.online
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not sure if this has been addressed, but this is on a fmic i assume?
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:00 AM   #6
stidoc
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Nice result. $1500 for 15 whp is a little steep perhaps.

Also, I've read where Chris doesn't like sharp radiuses in the exhaust tubing yet there's a 90* bend right after the 4-1 collector. Restriction?
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:21 AM   #7
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killerb makes good stuff! nice numbers, btw
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Old 01-21-2011, 08:39 AM   #8
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nice tq numbers lol.
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Old 01-21-2011, 08:58 AM   #9
KillerBMotorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stidoc View Post
Nice result. $1500 for 15 whp is a little steep perhaps.

Also, I've read where Chris doesn't like sharp radiuses in the exhaust tubing yet there's a 90* bend right after the 4-1 collector. Restriction?
It is steep, but that price is reflective of the material we use. 321SS is almost exactly twice as expensive as 304. Plus it's the thickest 321 you can get in those sizes, which most materials suppliers don't carry. AND the 1 7/8 secondary/up is non standard for aerospace or automotive. There's little about this product that makes it inexpensive to manufacture. Even welding requires high argon flow at the nozzle and purge compared to 304.

I don't like sharp radii, but there are limitations to what you can do with the form factor you're working with here. Keeping the primaries symmetrical was a must IMO because of the benefits. Something you can't easily see is the transition from primary to secondary formed into the merge, which I beleive helps flow through that bend. Every design has an achillies and simulations showed it to be that bend, but to what extent and compared to other designs available is anyone guess. The header is on a wide range of modified cars and it's never not made power, but any mainstream header will become a choke point as power levels climb into the super high range. Our target market was OEM located turbo cars.



Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowmd View Post
killerb makes good stuff! nice numbers, btw
Thanks

From all the testing shops have done these numbers fall right in line with the range we're seeing ~15-30 peak hp/tq. This is not a peak numbers header, it's an area under the curve header and you will see even larger gains if you look throughout the entire pull, and taper after peak is typically improved too.

Thanks for the post and testing data to Paul and the guys at YimiSport!!
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:03 AM   #10
stretchedk7
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^good post and honesty is nice to see. get what you pay for.
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:11 AM   #11
bigboy
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very nice..if i was sticking with a stock location turbo..these are headers i would probably get
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:23 AM   #12
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nice results, the improvements look great, like said before tho, the price is a little high for the header, but at the same time i can understand the time/development/quality materials that are in this header..
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:26 AM   #13
stidoc
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Except for the uppipe design, it shouldn't matter if the turbo is stock location or rotated and a rotated uppipe isn't a tough design stretch. EWG adds complexity and cost but given the number that are available this seems doable too. Just saying, but I understand there's only so much time in a day given you do your own manufacturing.

I also understand the cost of 321 but still, the power to $ trade here isn't that great a bargain and realistically how many are having trouble with cracked 304 headers, especially given how long they will own the car or change the setup. Longevity just isn't that big an issue. Nevertheless, it is a well-functioning, well-made piece for a niche market buyer and you should be proud of it, but the oil p/u will continue as your bread and butter I think.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:05 PM   #14
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Very nice! Do you have a boost log from the dyno that you can trace on for the runs?

I'm curious if the slight leaning out (2700-3800) is caused by scavenging or from earlier boost...either way, with no tuning changes both vouch well for the manifold.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:07 PM   #15
KillerBMotorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stidoc View Post
Except for the uppipe design, it shouldn't matter if the turbo is stock location or rotated and a rotated uppipe isn't a tough design stretch. EWG adds complexity and cost but given the number that are available this seems doable too. Just saying, but I understand there's only so much time in a day given you do your own manufacturing.

I also understand the cost of 321 but still, the power to $ trade here isn't that great a bargain and realistically how many are having trouble with cracked 304 headers, especially given how long they will own the car or change the setup. Longevity just isn't that big an issue. Nevertheless, it is a well-functioning, well-made piece for a niche market buyer and you should be proud of it, but the oil p/u will continue as your bread and butter I think.


Last I knew there were a few OEM-to-rotated adapters available and since there's no rotated "standard" it looked like we might chase our tail trying to fit the rotated masses.

Instances of failure can be found on most aftermarket 304 headers, we chose 321 because we never want to have to deal with replacing a failed header. Some share this thought about the products they buy. On a street car a failure would be more an inconvenience, and you're corrent, lots of owners could care less because they swap cars/setups too often to care about longevity. To the weekend racer missing an event is a much bigger deal. We do a lot of business with that demographic, they are technical, relaibility minded, and demand high quality for the $ they spend. We don't ever want to let them down. As years pass and more WRX/STi models are ending up doing track duty in some form or another, I'm seeing the market as less niche.

Not to be too OT here, but the pickup sales have been good to us. The pans are really gaining popularity across all markets.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:16 PM   #16
OrbitalEllipses
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Instances of failure can be found on most aftermarket 304 headers, we chose 321 because we never want to have to deal with replacing a failed header. Some share this thought about the products they buy. On a street car a failure would be more an inconvenience, and you're corrent, lots of owners could care less because they swap cars/setups too often to care about longevity. To the weekend racer missing an event is a much bigger deal. We do a lot of business with that demographic, they are technical, relaibility minded, and demand high quality for the $ they spend. We don't ever want to let them down. As years pass and more WRX/STi models are ending up doing track duty in some form or another, I'm seeing the market as less niche.

Not to be too OT here, but the pickup sales have been good to us. The pans are really gaining popularity across all markets.
In regards to the bolded statement: this header IS expensive. $100 per horsepower isn't cheap... but if people want cheap then they aren't cross-shopping this header with their selection. This is for people that must have quality, reliability, and power. It's rare to get all three. I'll admit, I have expensive taste, especially for my financial state; however, alot of that is just brand-name this brand-name that. This header falls into the expensive because it performs category, which is rare.

As for the pans; do you still only recommend them for racing applications?
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:18 PM   #17
vinceGC8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbomack View Post
Paul,

I"m lovin that Synergy turbo, and Custom Intake!!!!

Mack
glad you are enjoying the turbo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pooster.online View Post
not sure if this has been addressed, but this is on a fmic i assume?
this is on the stock 2008 STi topmount.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:20 PM   #18
MartinSTi05
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I may be wrong, but I am willing to bet one large (think secondary/Collector) bend is better then each individual primary having god knows how many bends added to allow a straigter secondary. Looks like a nice piece and the numbers seem to back it up.

Kudos for not being a "me too!" company!
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:25 PM   #19
STi Mikey
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Great results, but I would really like to see the ignition curve for both runs. anything over 1000 for 10-15 whp is a bit extreme. Its even more extreme when the car could have made the same power by utilizing a few more degrees of timing on the stock header.

Seeing an A-B comparo of boost/timing/afr used would be a great selling/recommendation factor for people that like to ask questions.


-Mikey

Last edited by STi Mikey; 01-21-2011 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:03 PM   #20
KurtP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STI Mikey
Great results, but I would really like to see the ignition curve for both runs. anything over 1000 for 10-15 whp is a bit extreme. Its even more extreme when the car could have made the same power by utilizing a few more degrees of timing on the stock header.

Seeing an A-B comparo of boost/timing/afr used would be a great selling/recommendation factor for people that like to ask questions.


-Mikey
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul@YimiSport.com View Post
Similarly, with the incredible knock resistance of the E85 fuel being run, timing could be increased to the point where adding more had no impact on power. Of course I backed the ignition advance off to just below MBT but again there isn't any way to fudge the results via tuning changes.

Boost, AFR, ignition timing and cam timing were constant between runs. I felt that this best isolated the change in total system VE (and resultant power difference) to the header. It is possible that a change in cam timing could have either increased or decreased the delta in power due to changes in backpressure and/or pulse tuning, but frankly I felt that any change would be small enough to not warrant further complicating the results.
I think that's fairly self explanatory- from the original post. As a man who just recently popped a couple ring lands on one of your more recent tuning trips, I would have assumed you of all people would understand adding "a few more degrees timing" isn't always the answer.

Last edited by KurtP; 01-21-2011 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 01-22-2011, 01:24 AM   #21
STi Mikey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtP View Post
I think that's fairly self explanatory- from the original post. As a man who just recently popped a couple ring lands on one of your more recent tuning trips, I would have assumed you of all people would understand adding "a few more degrees timing" isn't always the answer.

I would have like to see the numbers, thats all. Its a great setup nonetheless. I hear great things about Yimi from west coast friends/colleagues. I'll take your ignornant comment with a grain of salt though, things happen. Ringlands tend to go, we know this. If a tuner claims they have not had a ringland go out on them, their lying. I can go to local shops and take pictures of 5-10 suby's in the lot waiting for shortblocks, most probably have decent maps in them in all honesty. For every hundred, 1 or 2 running very similar boost/timing/afr just go (especially with high milage).

With all due respect, I take alot of pride in my track record for 2010. Thats another subject though, no need to side track this thread.

-Mikey
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Old 01-22-2011, 03:10 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi Mikey View Post
Great results, but I would really like to see the ignition curve for both runs. anything over 1000 for 10-15 whp is a bit extreme. Its even more extreme when the car could have made the same power by utilizing a few more degrees of timing on the stock header.

Seeing an A-B comparo of boost/timing/afr used would be a great selling/recommendation factor for people that like to ask questions.


-Mikey
Ask and ye shall receive:

Killer B header/uppipe
Code:
RPM     Boost   Load    Timing  MAF
2497	3.34	1.63	26.5	2.66
2497	3.34	1.63	26.5	2.66
2497	3.34	1.63	26.5	2.66
2497	3.34	1.63	26.5	2.66
2593	3.77	1.69	26	2.72
2593	3.77	1.69	26	2.72
2593	3.77	1.69	26	2.72
2655	4.35	1.75	26	2.78
2655	4.35	1.75	26	2.78
2655	4.35	1.75	26	2.78
2754	4.93	1.84	24.5	2.86
2754	4.93	1.84	24.5	2.86
2754	4.93	1.84	24.5	2.86
2754	4.93	1.84	24.5	2.86
2848	5.66	1.96	23.5	2.92
2848	5.66	1.96	23.5	2.92
2848	5.66	1.96	23.5	2.92
2949	6.67	2.05	23.5	3.02
2949	6.67	2.05	23.5	3.02
2949	6.67	2.05	23.5	3.02
3062	7.83	2.15	23	3.1
3062	7.83	2.15	23	3.1
3062	7.83	2.15	23	3.1
3062	7.83	2.15	23	3.1
3175	9.43	2.33	23	3.2
3175	9.43	2.33	23	3.2
3175	9.43	2.33	23	3.2
3334	11.6	2.61	21.5	3.42
3334	11.6	2.61	21.5	3.42
3334	11.6	2.61	21.5	3.42
3502	14.5	2.96	21.5	3.56
3502	14.5	2.96	21.5	3.56
3502	14.5	2.96	21.5	3.56
3502	14.5	2.96	21.5	3.56
3690	18.56	3.36	20.5	3.76
3690	18.56	3.36	20.5	3.76
3690	18.56	3.36	20.5	3.76
3880	21.47	3.66	20	3.98
3880	21.47	3.66	20	3.98
3880	21.47	3.66	20	3.98
3880	21.47	3.66	20	3.98
4130	22.34	3.69	20.5	4.04
4130	22.34	3.69	20.5	4.04
4130	22.34	3.69	20.5	4.04
4359	22.77	3.73	20.5	4.1
4359	22.77	3.73	20.5	4.1
4359	22.77	3.73	20.5	4.1
4579	23.06	3.68	21	4.18
4579	23.06	3.68	21	4.18
4579	23.06	3.68	21	4.18
4579	23.06	3.68	21	4.18
4788	23.06	3.62	22	4.2
4788	23.06	3.62	22	4.2
4788	23.06	3.62	22	4.2
5009	22.77	3.57	22.5	4.24
5009	22.77	3.57	22.5	4.24
5009	22.77	3.57	22.5	4.24
5198	22.48	3.55	23	4.28
5198	22.48	3.55	23	4.28
5198	22.48	3.55	23	4.28
5198	22.48	3.55	23	4.28
5413	22.34	3.55	23	4.32
5413	22.34	3.55	23	4.32
5413	22.34	3.55	23	4.32
5538	21.9	3.49	23	4.34
5538	21.9	3.49	23	4.34
5538	21.9	3.49	23	4.34
5538	21.9	3.49	23	4.34
5700	21.76	3.44	24	4.36
5700	21.76	3.44	24	4.36
5700	21.76	3.44	24	4.36
5958	21.76	3.41	24.5	4.38
5958	21.76	3.41	24.5	4.38
5958	21.76	3.41	24.5	4.38
6140	21.47	3.29	25	4.38
6140	21.47	3.29	25	4.38
6140	21.47	3.29	25	4.38
6140	21.47	3.29	25	4.38
6310	21.47	3.24	25.5	4.4
6310	21.47	3.24	25.5	4.4
6310	21.47	3.24	25.5	4.4
6469	21.03	3.15	26.5	4.38
6469	21.03	3.15	26.5	4.38
6469	21.03	3.15	26.5	4.38
6527	20.89	3.08	27.5	4.42
6527	20.89	3.08	27.5	4.42
6527	20.89	3.08	27.5	4.42
6527	20.89	3.08	27.5	4.42
6670	20.45	3.02	28	4.4
6670	20.45	3.02	28	4.4
6670	20.45	3.02	28	4.4
6809	20.16	2.97	28	4.4
6809	20.16	2.97	28	4.4
6809	20.16	2.97	28	4.4
7080	20.16	2.93	29	4.42
7080	20.16	2.93	29	4.42
7080	20.16	2.93	29	4.42
7080	20.16	2.93	29	4.42
7082	20.02	2.91	29	4.44
7082	20.02	2.91	29	4.44
7082	20.02	2.91	29	4.44
7214	19.87	2.81	29.5	4.4
7214	19.87	2.81	29.5	4.4
7214	19.87	2.81	29.5	4.4
7214	19.87	2.81	29.5	4.4
7352	19.87	2.79	30	4.42
7352	19.87	2.79	30	4.42
7352	19.87	2.79	30	4.42
Stock exhaust manifold/Titek uppipe
Code:
RPM     Boost   Load    Timing  MAF
2501	3.63	1.62	26.5	2.66
2501	3.63	1.62	26.5	2.66
2501	3.63	1.62	26.5	2.66
2501	3.63	1.62	26.5	2.66
2580	4.21	1.69	25.5	2.7
2580	4.21	1.69	25.5	2.7
2580	4.21	1.69	25.5	2.7
2671	4.64	1.75	25.5	2.74
2671	4.64	1.75	25.5	2.74
2671	4.64	1.75	25.5	2.74
2725	5.22	1.84	25	2.8
2725	5.22	1.84	25	2.8
2725	5.22	1.84	25	2.8
2725	5.22	1.84	25	2.8
2821	6.09	1.95	24	2.96
2821	6.09	1.95	24	2.96
2821	6.09	1.95	24	2.96
2910	6.96	2.04	23	3.02
2910	6.96	2.04	23	3.02
2910	6.96	2.04	23	3.02
3024	8.12	2.13	23.5	3.12
3024	8.12	2.13	23.5	3.12
3024	8.12	2.13	23.5	3.12
3024	8.12	2.13	23.5	3.12
3136	9.57	2.27	23.5	3.22
3136	9.57	2.27	23.5	3.22
3136	9.57	2.27	23.5	3.22
3261	11.6	2.48	22	3.38
3261	11.6	2.48	22	3.38
3261	11.6	2.48	22	3.38
3261	11.6	2.48	22	3.38
3430	14.21	2.72	22	3.48
3430	14.21	2.72	22	3.48
3430	14.21	2.72	22	3.48
3599	17.4	3.06	21	3.72
3599	17.4	3.06	21	3.72
3599	17.4	3.06	21	3.72
3769	20.74	3.35	21	3.76
3769	20.74	3.35	21	3.76
3769	20.74	3.35	21	3.76
3769	20.74	3.35	21	3.76
3948	21.61	3.39	21	3.94
3948	21.61	3.39	21	3.94
3948	21.61	3.39	21	3.94
4150	22.34	3.48	21	3.98
4150	22.34	3.48	21	3.98
4150	22.34	3.48	21	3.98
4371	23.06	3.53	21	4.1
4371	23.06	3.53	21	4.1
4371	23.06	3.53	21	4.1
4371	23.06	3.53	21	4.1
4595	23.06	3.57	21.5	4.16
4595	23.06	3.57	21.5	4.16
4595	23.06	3.57	21.5	4.16
4784	23.06	3.54	22	4.16
4784	23.06	3.54	22	4.16
4784	23.06	3.54	22	4.16
4784	23.06	3.54	22	4.16
4941	23.06	3.49	22.5	4.22
4941	23.06	3.49	22.5	4.22
4941	23.06	3.49	22.5	4.22
5117	23.06	3.47	23	4.26
5117	23.06	3.47	23	4.26
5117	23.06	3.47	23	4.26
5375	22.77	3.49	23	4.3
5375	22.77	3.49	23	4.3
5375	22.77	3.49	23	4.3
5375	22.77	3.49	23	4.3
5484	22.63	3.47	23.5	4.34
5484	22.63	3.47	23.5	4.34
5484	22.63	3.47	23.5	4.34
5749	22.34	3.42	23.5	4.36
5749	22.34	3.42	23.5	4.36
5749	22.34	3.42	23.5	4.36
5843	22.19	3.37	24.5	4.38
5843	22.19	3.37	24.5	4.38
5843	22.19	3.37	24.5	4.38
5843	22.19	3.37	24.5	4.38
6104	22.05	3.29	24.5	4.36
6104	22.05	3.29	24.5	4.36
6104	22.05	3.29	24.5	4.36
6176	22.05	3.22	25.5	4.38
6176	22.05	3.22	25.5	4.38
6176	22.05	3.22	25.5	4.38
6176	22.05	3.22	25.5	4.38
6336	21.76	3.16	26	4.38
6336	21.76	3.16	26	4.38
6336	21.76	3.16	26	4.38
6585	21.61	3.1	27	4.38
6585	21.61	3.1	27	4.38
6585	21.61	3.1	27	4.38
6631	21.18	3.06	27	4.42
6631	21.18	3.06	27	4.42
6631	21.18	3.06	27	4.42
6631	21.18	3.06	27	4.42
6895	21.03	2.97	28.5	4.4
6895	21.03	2.97	28.5	4.4
6895	21.03	2.97	28.5	4.4
7025	21.03	2.98	28.5	4.44
7025	21.03	2.98	28.5	4.44
7025	21.03	2.98	28.5	4.44
7157	21.03	2.9	29	4.44
7157	21.03	2.9	29	4.44
7157	21.03	2.9	29	4.44
7157	21.03	2.9	29	4.44
7284	20.89	2.85	29.5	4.4
7284	20.89	2.85	29.5	4.4
7284	20.89	2.85	29.5	4.4
7416	20.45	2.86	30	4.42
7416	20.45	2.86	30	4.42
7416	20.45	2.86	30	4.42
As you can see timing is virtually identical between the 2 runs. It is actually a tiny bit higher on the stock manifold run because load is a touch lower even though boost is incrementally higher. MAF V is basically the same. AFR is the same as seen in the dyno plots.

Interestingly, looking at the logs you'd think that the stock manifold made a smidge more power, but that was not the case. Improved VE due to the header is the only difference and indeed the difference maker.
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Old 01-22-2011, 03:17 AM   #23
STi Mikey
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Awesome! Thats what im talking about

I was mostly interested in 4k-4.5k RPM, that seems to be where the largest delta area is. You are running .5 degrees more on the stock header and making ~ 25whp more in that area.

A worth while investment for sure, thanks for the post!
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Old 01-23-2011, 10:53 AM   #24
wrxsubiemod
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holly gee's makes me want to rethink my setup hahaha.
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Old 01-23-2011, 03:29 PM   #25
Bariga
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the header doesnt clear undertray?
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