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Old 02-24-2011, 07:12 PM   #26
Homemade WRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AQ Motorsports View Post
If they're using 2" chevy bearings I'm guessing they ground the crank to do so.

The main bearings are the weird ones on that engine where you need to use the OEM ones (which are pretty good). The rod bearings are the same as an EJ, so you just need to get two sets and have extras. or three sets for 2 motors I guess.
I know the main bearings are narrow on the EZ motors...the rods stayed the same?

I'm wondering what on earth the builder did on the bottom end.
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Last edited by Homemade WRX; 02-25-2011 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:18 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AQ Motorsports View Post
If they're using 2" chevy bearings I'm guessing they ground the crank to do so.

The main bearings are the weird ones on that engine where you need to use the OEM ones (which are pretty good). The rod bearings are the same as an EJ, so you just need to get two sets and have extras. or three sets for 2 motors I guess.
Exactly what i did 2 sets of ACL EJ bearings the "tangs" are different but if you are getting custom rods thats not a problem
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:34 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
I know the main bearings are narrow on the EZ motors...the rods stayed the same?

I'm wondering what on earth the builder did on the bottom end.
I just called our machine shop and got an expert opinion and it seems I was mistaken.

Like Spec C said, the tangs would be off with an OEM rod because the 6cyl journals are narrower. The bearings do still fit on the crank but to use them you do need to have different rods (and you can't use the oem ones on a high power build anyway).

So what appears to have happened is that the crank was ground down to 2" which really compromises it's strength. On top of that the bearings seem to have either been too wide or the clearances aren't right.

My suggestion - new 3.0 crank and a set of rods from outfront motorsports. Or have your own rods made.
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:41 PM   #29
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What about a Clevite "HN" bearing?
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:22 PM   #30
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I can only guess what he did as i can't ask him, he's nowhere to be found. You only get one guess as to who the builder was.

The rods are Pauter, i presume they're custom made as i don't think Pauter has them off the shelf.

What i'm thinking of doing is to bore out the block half-shells or whatever they're called (journals...?) that hold the main bearings (don't know the correct term for it, we call it "thorning") and the conrods, to equalize all the tolerances, retighten and measure everything up - and work up from there, make something like 0,0025in clearances all round and find the appropriate main and big end bearings. This way i'm trying to put too many variables together - i'm only guessing the tolerances in the engine right now, i just presume he used standard bearings (5 or 6 different ones at that...), i'm guessing Chevy will work...too much guessing, i need to have my facts straight.

Reason i can't actually measure the sizes and definitely see the journal sizes is the crank being polished out for the very slight damage from the bearings.

For the moment, i'm trying to establish what the alternatives are for the main bearings, assuming that the dimensions of the crank are identical to the OEM - are they interchangeable with any other, etc.
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:01 PM   #31
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so the rods definitely use 2" bearings, right?

honestly I think you're going to have to start over with a new oem crank and a new set of rods with 52mm journals. Then use oem main bearings and acl race rod bearings (which are also not terribly fun to source).
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:55 PM   #32
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Thats sick.. Im diggin the blown diffuser
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Old 02-26-2011, 04:54 AM   #33
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Hold on, what exactly is the problem with leaving 2" journals on the rods? Main bearings will remain OEM, this way or another, right? ACL race will have to be used for the rods no matter what the dimension, 2" or 52mm, so i don't understand the difference...?

Pardon the ignorance, but i don;t have that much experience with this whole rod crank bearing issues, i'm just doing the job the builder f***** up and need to fully understand the reasons behing any recommendation.
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Old 02-26-2011, 06:11 AM   #34
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interesting build
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Old 02-26-2011, 07:00 AM   #35
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Hold on, what exactly is the problem with leaving 2" journals on the rods? Main bearings will remain OEM, this way or another, right? ACL race will have to be used for the rods no matter what the dimension, 2" or 52mm, so i don't understand the difference...?

Pardon the ignorance, but i don;t have that much experience with this whole rod crank bearing issues, i'm just doing the job the builder f***** up and need to fully understand the reasons behing any recommendation.
IMHO the crank is unfortunately "less than it once was" (fit for the bin).
Even if the machining was carried out correctly, it now has a smaller bearing surface area, so less load carrying area than (the already less than ideal) original dimensioned journals.
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Old 02-27-2011, 01:29 AM   #36
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What about going Honda Journal?
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:19 AM   #37
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As far as bearings, just call up ACL and have them custom make you some bearings (a few sets, just in case). It shouldn't be that expensive, and I think they'd be pretty stoked to be on one of the first twin'd EZ30's.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:48 PM   #38
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you don't need to have bearings made or find some other application that is the right size though- The ground crank needs to go in the trash. It *WILL* break at your planned power levels.

This means you need a new crank. An OEM one which has 52mm journals. This means you need to get new rods, and there's only about one place that keeps aftermarket ez30 rods in stock and they're meant to be used with standard subaru acl bearings. Or you can just have them made yourself.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:00 PM   #39
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What about going Honda Journal?
I think you'd have to cut out too much crank material and would be prone to failure or at least increased flexure of the crank. I'd go with RB series (or SR20) bearings. They are only .030 wider than the standard 52mm rod bearings but have the 48mm journal.

I honestly wonder why in the world the builder went to a smaller diameter. It narrows the oil wedge in trade for reducing bearing speed...I think he made the bad call in this case or had the wrong clearances and oil pressure.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:18 AM   #40
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that thing is sickk
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:10 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by AQ Motorsports View Post
you don't need to have bearings made or find some other application that is the right size though- The ground crank needs to go in the trash. It *WILL* break at your planned power levels.

This means you need a new crank. An OEM one which has 52mm journals. This means you need to get new rods, and there's only about one place that keeps aftermarket ez30 rods in stock and they're meant to be used with standard subaru acl bearings. Or you can just have them made yourself.
Which company has 30R rods shelved and ready to go?
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:54 PM   #42
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Outfront Motorsports normally does, but when I called them about this they said they were waiting for a new batch. They *might* have a set available. I believe they are made by Manley for them. If needed we could also get a set made by Carillo
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:22 AM   #43
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I donít think any of the "off the shelf" rods will be direct fit for ACL bearings, modification of the "tang" position will be required, as they are most likely to be based on the original EZ30 rods. I know of one person who used Pauter rods then ground off the existing tang from ACL bearings and made a tool to create a new tang which suited the Pauter rods. Having custom rods made with EJ style bearing compatibility overcomes this issue and gives you a chance to make them just a little longer too. That is if you want a little extra compression when using commonly available pistons
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Old 03-03-2011, 09:09 AM   #44
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Well I emailed Outfront and hopefully will see some good response.
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:32 AM   #45
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Well, the worst possible thing about the crank turned out to be true after all - fit for the trash. See all written above, too much taken off when machined to fit the rods, so it bent at around 400WHP.

Got the new one, along with the rods and ACL bearings from Outfront (from what i could see pretty much the same spec and size as the EJ20, so hopefully no f*** ups this time...), got all the tolerances right, new A1 Technologies studs (insane $$$$!!!!!) , works perfectly. Got it up to around 1.6bar so far, no idea how much BHP is that, but if i had to guestimate, around 7-750BHP+ at the crank (or so much the VBox estimates, that is...). Plan now is to go to about 2,2bar, on E85, A2W IC + water&meth injection, nitrous as needed. Wow, what a mix

Got the dry sump up and running, to prevent ANY chance of oil starvation ever happening, works perfectly, drives the pump off the crank pulley, pump in place of the power steering pump, 70+ psi pressure, pretty constant throughout.

Still in the process of working out some of the issues such as the paddleshifting mechanism for the auto box, redesign of the intake manifold to include twin dual plenum intake chambers, A2W+ice cooled IC, respositioning of the engine cooler, mapping the car 100% plus all the automation and failsafes going through the ECU, CF shaft, DriveshaftShop 1000BHP axles, etc...

TBC.

Last edited by AlexD; 06-17-2011 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 06-20-2011, 12:08 AM   #46
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Quote:
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Well I emailed Outfront and hopefully will see some good response.
I don't know if you ever got a response, but here's what they emailed me last week:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outfront
The rods are custom H beam rods with ARP 2000 bolts and dowells, i had them custom made to use the ej25 rod bearings!!! that way you can use acl race bearings and they are slightly wider than stock, there is no issue with the wider bearing on the crank as the crank radius is undercut. they are stock length at 5,180 they weigh only 500 grams, stock wrist pin size they are $1000 and in stock, we have ran up to 28psi against these rods and have never had a failure

I would like some "press" on these rods as i have not updated my website yet (an updated site is coming soon)

we ship daily, you could call me @ 714 994 5222

John Rykowski
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:20 AM   #47
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Yeah I remember getting a responce, but not what is said... I was crazy busy so at least you posted up your response. I'm not sure on 28lbs... I'll have to push harder than that! Micah needs to get his damn cutter working and make our flanges! Till then I'm trying NOT to think of spending the money on the internals yet. I have to pay off my spare motor and another set of wheels and tires first.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:40 PM   #48
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AlexD, you stated: Got the dry sump up and running, to prevent ANY chance of oil starvation ever happening, works perfectly, drives the pump off the crank pulley, pump in place of the power steering pump, 70+ psi pressure, pretty constant throughout.

Can you provide more info on the dry sump, manufacturer, details, ground clearnce etc?- Thanks- Jim
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:22 AM   #49
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We definitely need more pics in this thread.

Ben
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:09 AM   #50
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Dry sump is based around a Moroso 3-stage pump mounted in place of the power steering pump, driven directly off the main pulley (power steering is taken out, obviously, if i ever need it i can always mount a small electric pump). Pretty straightforward setup, scavenges from the sump, pushes it and stores in the oil tank, and then pumps it from there into the engine through the oil filter adapter. Standard oil pump is taken out and blanked off. Oil tank itself is mounted on the roll bar - not an ideal solution, but it will have to do for now - pump sits pretty high up in the engine bay, and it's advisable that the oil tank outlet sits a bit higher than the pump inlet to prevent oil draining from the pump into the tank, which in turn might cause dry start next time you start the engine. So i could either mount the tank high up so the oil always drains into the pump, or have the one way valve installed into the lines - but the non-restricting one way valve for AN16 line is kind of expensive, and i'd rather avoid any sort of a valve on the critical oil feed line, no matter how good it might be.

Pictures - if that would be interesting to see i could post a whole pictorial of the build, apart from the pictures of the latest updates, that's still being done (twin dual-chamber intakes, A2W IC, etc....)

Last edited by AlexD; 06-22-2011 at 07:15 AM.
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