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Old 01-27-2011, 09:49 AM   #1
gmullin
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Default broken pistion

i got a junk yard motor to use its a 2.2 any modifacitations i can do when its apart im going to rebuild the old motor to a decent n/a motor
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:04 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmullin
i got a junk yard motor to use its a 2.2 any modifacitations i can do when its apart im going to rebuild the old motor to a decent n/a motor
Um, what exactly are you asking?
Please use proper spelling, punctuation and grammar.

Thanks.
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:26 PM   #3
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ok i got a 97 impreza wagon with a 2.2 that has a broken pistion. so i got a 2.2 from a junk yard to use for the mean time. im planing to take the original motor apart and rebuild it so wat im asking is where can i find higher compression pistions and if theirs any (stock) camshafts that have a bigger lift than stock,and most important is some kind of engine management so i can adjust for the changes. or any othe supporting mods that you might see nessary
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:28 PM   #4
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im sorry for my poor spelling and grammer
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:32 PM   #5
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Its not a simple job. I would recommend having an engine builder rebuild the engine. Do your homework on the builder and take no shortcuts. Spend the extra dough on a reputable builder.
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Old 01-27-2011, 03:34 PM   #6
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Reassembling an NA Suby motor isn't really that challenging.

OP, as far as OE mixing and matching goes, you can use stock cams and the stock shortblock from a SOHC 2.5 engine, both of which will help make more power. I don't know of any aftermarket pistons for the 2.2 NA however. There's no simple EM solution either- piggybacks like a PP6 or a complete standalone are all you can do. On the plus side, using an EJ25 block and cams plus a header won't actually require any ECU changes- it'll run fine and safe and still make extra torque.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:41 PM   #7
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....
Did 1997 Legacys get the phase II motors? If not, will his wiring harness work with phase II ej22 heads (to be able to use phase II ej25 cams you mentioned)?

Companies that make pistons (Wiseco, etc) can build pretty much any piston you give them specs for.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:12 PM   #8
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Did 1997 Legacys get the phase II motors? If not, will his wiring harness work with phase II ej22 heads (to be able to use phase II ej25 cams you mentioned)?
He's got an Impreza, not a Legacy, and I was suggesting he keep his heads. However, you're right, he has Phase 1 head which eliminate the cam swap option. Delta does make regrinds for him though, at a reasonable cost.
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Old 01-27-2011, 07:08 PM   #9
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people like to step to forced induction with the old 2.2L motors. I always questions trying to put a lot of money into a small motor. Forced induction matters less, but NA, displacement is king, and it's just weird putting money into a 2.2L just to make 2.5L power when you're done.
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:59 AM   #10
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i would play with a turbo but im trying to make it into a show room stock to run rally cross. but i dont have a crazy budget i have 500 to invest into new peaces. so can i bore out the sleaves and use a 2.5 bottom end? leaving the top end alown.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
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i would play with a turbo but im trying to make it into a show room stock to run rally cross. but i dont have a crazy budget i have 500 to invest into new peaces. so can i bore out the sleaves and use a 2.5 bottom end? leaving the top end alown.
If it's a stock class, how is any of this legal?
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:42 PM   #12
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Yeah, if you mod it in any way away from stock, you're out of stock class anyways. The sad part is rally-x does not differentiate cars like auto-x. You will compete with stock WRXs and STIs in stock class anyways, same in prepared and modified. This pretty much means you're not winning anything anyways sitting at stock. You might as well mod in whatever way you want and create a car that you like to drive.

Now this isn't to say that a NA isn't competitive. One issue with turbo cars is that many people tend to drive them in a higher gear than they should. Few WRX owners drop back down to 1st when they should since the 5sp isn't happy about getting back into 1st while in motion (it works just fine, but people don't do the right actions to make it easy). STI owners have 2nd and 3rd gear to play with, and results are mixed. It really comes down to how people drive their cars and how well they stay in the power band, but most are bad at it and end up suffering greatly out of corners. Many also like to toss their cars around excessively and spin tires in the loose dirt, fun to look at but slow around the track. Lower power cars have less ability to do so and drivers have less tendency to dink around so much. Driving my bro's FXT, I can tack on a solid 5 seconds easy just by not using 1st when I should simply from dropping out of boost range through a lot of the corners. This creates a great advantage for the NA driver.

Remember, that's a driving issue, but one thing it does is let NA guys have a serious advantage on course. I've beaten many WRX and STI owners with my NA Forester not because my car is realistically faster but because I can make better use of the power I have. My bro's FXT is a solid 3 seconds faster than my NA Forester but I pretty much always beat him through consistency and better application of power. The beauty of rally-x is that it rewards good drivers. It's more about reading the course and taking good lines. It's about maximizing power output and never hitting cones. There's less emphasis on power and weight since the surface is loose and deformable.

Is stock class easier? Well...you do have a higher chance of new drivers in stock class which can make your life a little easier. However, some seasoned drivers will stay in stock class simply for the value (not tossing money into their daily driver). A lot of people do transition up the classes as they fiddle with their car and make them faster, so many times the people who have been doing it for a while will eventually step up to prepared and then modified. You just can't really count on it though.

All I can really suggest to you is just to have fun. Set the car up however you want and just enjoy yourself. I have a realistically PA level car I'm running in M4 due to specific parts I'm using on my car. I easily took 1st in PA most of the time. Even in M4, I almost always get a podium finish. I even took 2nd overall in M4 for my region this last year.

The car does play a big roll in how far you can go, but most of the influence is the driver. You have to be able to push the car to the limit and stay there throughout the run and every run. Get up to that first. Then you start looking at modifying the car as needed to make the car faster. If you don't, you will be more limited by your own driving than by the capability of the car. A fast car can only compensate a little bit for poor driving. If the difference between an OK driver and a great driver is 5 seconds, you need a car that's 5 seconds faster just to compete with the better driver. This is the kind of gap a STI and a base Impreza might have meaning a great driver in a base Impreza can likely beat an OK driver in a STI simply through driving prowess. In time the STI will be faster but only when the OK driver becomes a great driver.
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:44 PM   #13
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it would look stock till they pull the motor and how i see it i would be going up aganst turbo cars so thats kinda unfair. nothing else would be modified ive raced short tracks with crazy vws and those rules were has to be stock drive train but with some oem mis matched parts you got a rocket ship
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:52 PM   #14
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the stuff i usto race the diffrence between a great driver and an ok driver would be .2seconds per lap
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Old 01-28-2011, 04:02 PM   #15
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People aren't stupid. They drive the same car as you. There really isn't any trickery you can do that they wouldn't notice. Most people doing rally-x are Subaru owners. They know these cars very well including what mods can be done on the various engines. However, being a 2.2L you're still out powered by all the 2.5L motors anyways even if you mod yours, and you will still be competing against turboed cars. It's sort of a mute point.

The bigger issue is this, you have a 2.2L motor. Subaru has a lot of stock 2.5L cars that make significantly more power and as much power as a decently modded 2.2L motor. That's the biggest issue. The 2.2L motor doesn't really offer much outside of a block that people like to toss turbos on. If you want a rocket ship, rebuild and turbo the 2.2L or throw in a modded EG33. Both can get you up to STI power.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:44 PM   #16
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anyone experanced with a 2.5 swap i read that its just rewire 2 sensors and use the 2.2 harness and ecm?
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:45 PM   #17
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if so im scraping this motor and getting the 2.5
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:33 PM   #18
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:facepalm:

You've made it clear you intend to use the information you're gathering to cheat in motorsports. So you're probably going to have to find a new source.
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:56 PM   #19
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It doesn't matter. The car simply won't be fast enough until it's modded enough to get into a higher class anyways. I have to drive the snot out of my car to compete. It's not that the car is faster than other people's (although I've made it better and better). It's that I push the hell out of the car as much as possible. At first, it's all about driving. You have to get very good at what you do to actually get the car up to its limit. Until you can get near 10/10ths, the car isn't the worry. Once you can bring the car to the limit and keep it there run after run, then after that point you start to realize how the car is limiting you and what you need to do to get faster and competitive.

I'm at that point and understand where my own car is limiting me. However, when I do build up my car, it will be forced induction or a big motor drop in (think EG33 with upgrades). I want at least 300hp and around the same torque to be at a point where I think the car has enough power to make full use of available grip on these surfaces with good tires without really leaving much on the table during the run. Max Johnson (never personally met or raced with) ran an H6 in his Impreza and got a #2 national finish this year. Frankly, I think 400hp could be functional during even a small portion of the run, but that would be incredibly infrequent given the straights are too short to get into taller gears. At the same time I will gut the whole car because weight is an issue for cornering speed. Even though the surface is deformable and less important than if on asphalt, there is a certain amount of effort the tires are doing holding the line around the corner. This kind of build could beat any local car here and can be good enough to do nationals competitively, although I am not at a point in my life to travel for that.

I do have the benefit of racing locally with some of the top drivers in the nation like Mark Uteckt who was 2008 M4 winner and Brent Carlson the 2008 PA winner and see at least once during the year some other drivers like Ken Cashion who was #2 in M4 in 2009 and #1 in M2 in 2010. I had the pleasure to meet Ken and his son in 2009. My lowly NA Forester was no match for his Evo on gravel tires, lol.



As for a motor change, I'm not sure if that throws you right into M4, but it probably does (too lazy to look at the rule book). That's not a bad thing really because it gives you the freedom to do anything you want to the car. Just have fun and build as you please. Maybe this isn't what you seek. I don't know. My only real suggestions are stay stock and run stock if that's what you want. Push the car as best you can and see what happens during the year. The other option is to mod the car as you please to make the car what you want it to be, irrelevant of what class you move into. Have fun building the car and have fun driving the car. Just keep building, driving, and getting faster.
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:55 PM   #20
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no wasent going to cheat i was going to use all oem parts and use the ej22 block with ej25 pistions i was simply asking if they would work but now im looking to do a ej25 swap i know that yea it might not be wat motor came in it and it most likley would get me out of the stock class and into a faster class... and racing experance goes ive raced go-carts and some road runners
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
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no wasent going to cheat i was going to use all oem parts and use the ej22 block with ej25 pistions i was simply asking if they would work but now im looking to do a ej25 swap i know that yea it might not be wat motor came in it and it most likley would get me out of the stock class and into a faster class... and racing experance goes ive raced go-carts and some road runners
okay, so you have no Rally-X or professional/semi-professional/sanctioned motorsports experience at all.
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:43 PM   #22
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have you done any reading or research at all?
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:59 PM   #23
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no thats y im asking you for answers and racing experance is go-carts ive raced with the likes of dj shaw and tj laro in wka unrestricted champ karts. but lets get off of this subject and back to wats needed to be done to swap in a 2.5. when i regester for my first race ill let them tech me
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Old 01-30-2011, 06:41 PM   #24
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Read the High Compression Frankenstein thread- the whole thing. Most of what you need to know is in there and once you understand all that, you'll be able to ask more specific questions that we can answer.

You'll find that the experienced tech minds on this forum are more than glad to answer specific questions and dole out advice in small chunks- but nobody wants to write you a novel-length post on something as broad as the NA engine compatibilities, especially when it's all been answered before by those same people.
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:17 PM   #25
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ok so now my gf hates me i just read all 14 pages of it now wat sensors would i have to exchange just to get a sohc 2.5 running or would it just be plug and play
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