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Old 02-03-2011, 11:06 PM   #26
usfsfire42
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^ I was just stating an observation, but thank you that is really interesting info.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:08 PM   #27
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^ I was just stating an observation, but thank you that is really interesting info.
I know, I just thought I'd throw it out there since a lot of people link the two.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:12 PM   #28
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+1 Rotella t6 5w40
Best bang for the buck if you are like me changing oil every 3000 miles even if it is synthetic blend or Full.

Save the Good stuff like Amzoil, MoTul, Eneos, ect for Track Days, then switch back for Daily Driving.

Last edited by Kumachn; 02-04-2011 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:25 PM   #29
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We recommend Motul. We run them in our street cars and consistently get good UOA results.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:57 PM   #30
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IMHO... Excessive oil use between oil changes is typically related to worn valve guides, or worn piston rings. However, with turbo engines that run higher compression pressures, there will be more oil usage compared to an NA engine anyway. This is because the turbo is compressing the fuel/air mixture in the combustion chamber which results in more combustion pressure, more HP, and consequently more internal pressure in the engine causing blowby past the rings. This forces more oil out of your gaskets and seals, and also burns more oil in the combustion chamber. So, any oil in a turbo engine will be consumed at a higher rate than it would in an NA engine.

Another point to consider is that all oil will get dirty after a while, faster in a turbo motor because of the issues mentioned earlier. So it doesn't matter how well your oil lubricates, because when it gets dirty it becomes an abrasive component in your engine. If you study oil sample results you will see that after a certain period of time, based on where you drive and how you drive, your oil will start to become abrasive. After this point it doesn't matter what oil you use, it will start to wear out your engine. This is why people send oil samples to companies like Blackstone. They can tell you how the oil you are using is lubricating your engine based on how long it's been in there, and the wear particulates in your sample. It will also give you an indication of how well your filter is working. This is why I posted my sample report, read it...

So the point I'm trying to make is use whatever oil you want, send in a sample to be analyzed, then determine how long your change interval should be. The sample will tell you whether your oil and filter combination are doing the job they should be for the change interval you are using.

Rockrt's two cents...
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Old 02-04-2011, 12:38 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zozza8 View Post
I recently switched from Valvoline to the Royal Purple and its been amazing..
and how do you know it's been "amazing" without any sort of evidence like UOA, VOA, or a motor teardown?

Enjoy your spun bearings.
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:53 PM   #32
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It all depends I have two built hybrids one untuned one tuned, I run various oils in the untuned and it has oil consumption problems due to the crank case breather being blocked off and not recirculated. I have used rotella, royal purple, german castrol penzoil platinum and mobil 1 all being synthetic except during break ins of both motors. I run amsoil on my built motor and asolutly love it For the untuned hybrid with consumption problems ive had the less amount of consumption and best results from rotella and penzoil platinum. I had alot of consumption with castrol using a higher winter since I used it last season. It all depends on who is driving and how they drive it. Honestly Royal purple was terrible and i was using mobil 1 when my original and now built motor blew. I dont trust mobil 1.
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:55 PM   #33
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but on my post before I change my oil more than I change undies, I change oil to amsoil or rotella before and after track runs, religiously and 99.9 percent of the time it never reaches 2500 miles.
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Old 02-04-2011, 03:55 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XanRules View Post
and how do you know it's been "amazing" without any sort of evidence like UOA, VOA, or a motor teardown?

Enjoy your spun bearings.
I find it amazing because I get better mileage and use less than the other brands I've tried. The engine also feels happier.

I run through 1st and 2nd gears all the way to 7k with my hta68, on a semi-weekly basis. And it looks pretty good when I change it -- not watery at all. 50k on RP now and counting.

That said, Xan, if I spin a bearing now, I'll be really pissed at you!
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Old 02-04-2011, 04:02 PM   #35
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^ you get better mpg because its a thinner oil
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Old 02-04-2011, 04:27 PM   #36
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Wow, lots of info on this thread... is my car gonna blow up if I just take it to the dealership and have them do it? I did that for the first free scheduled oil change recommended at 3750 mi. I have no idea what brand they used... come to think of it, I also don't know the weight, but I figure they used the recommended stuff. I wouldn't mind buying a specific brand and doing it myself, but I figure if I'm going to do anything else like a tire rotation or inspection of other components, as per the manual, might as well have them change the oil too.
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Old 02-04-2011, 04:51 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by gurana View Post
Wow, lots of info on this thread... is my car gonna blow up if I just take it to the dealership and have them do it?
No. Well, unless they leave the drain plug off or something.
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Old 02-04-2011, 09:16 PM   #38
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^ you get better mpg because its a thinner oil
You are correct, sir; it's 5w-30. When I go through my next round of mods I'm considering 5-40 or 10-40.
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Old 02-04-2011, 09:26 PM   #39
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You are correct, sir; it's 5w-30. When I go through my next round of mods I'm considering 5-40 or 10-40.
What he means is that, while it's rated as a 5w30, it's really not. The "weight" rating is a range. Anything that falls between X and Y is called a 20 weight, anything between Y and Z is a 30 weight, etc. Mobil 1 5w30 and Royal Purple 5w30 are at the very VERY bleeding edge of the bottom of the 30 weight range. After just a few hundred miles they've dropped to a 20 weight. That's why they give you better mileage, and that's why so many engines spin bearings when running them, they're just too thin. They're not "real" 30 weight oils, and by "real", I mean an oil that actually stays within its rating for the duration of its use. In my mind, for an oil to call itself a 30 weight, it needs to stay a 30 weight for at LEAST 4k miles. If it drops to a 20 weight before you even hit 1k (IE: Mobil 1 and RP), it's not a 30 weight oil, it's a 20 weight, and a 20 weight is just way too thin for our motors when you're driving hard in the summer heat.

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Old 02-04-2011, 10:24 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by gurana View Post
Wow, lots of info on this thread... is my car gonna blow up if I just take it to the dealership and have them do it? I did that for the first free scheduled oil change recommended at 3750 mi. I have no idea what brand they used... come to think of it, I also don't know the weight, but I figure they used the recommended stuff. I wouldn't mind buying a specific brand and doing it myself, but I figure if I'm going to do anything else like a tire rotation or inspection of other components, as per the manual, might as well have them change the oil too.
Noone has EVER been denied warranty service because they had a dealership change their oil for them! So if that's what you prefer to do don't sweat it, you're good to go...
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Old 02-04-2011, 10:42 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll

What he means is that, while it's rated as a 5w30, it's really not. The "weight" rating is a range. Anything that falls between X and Y is called a 20 weight, anything between Y and Z is a 30 weight, etc. Mobil 1 5w30 and Royal Purple 5w30 are at the very VERY bleeding edge of the bottom of the 30 weight range. After just a few hundred miles they've dropped to a 20 weight. That's why they give you better mileage, and that's why so many engines spin bearings when running them, they're just too thin. They're not "real" 30 weight oils, and by "real", I mean an oil that actually stays within its rating for the duration of its use. In my mind, for an oil to call itself a 30 weight, it needs to stay a 30 weight for at LEAST 4k miles. If it drops to a 20 weight before you even hit 1k (IE: Mobil 1 and RP), it's not a 30 weight oil, it's a 20 weight, and a 20 weight is just way too thin for our motors when you're driving hard in the summer heat.
Actually the W doesnt stand for weight even though this is a common misconception when people speak of oil ratings. It stands for WINTER. Neither number (before or after the W) corresponds to an actual weight. It corresponds to the oils viscosity (flow resistance) at a certain temperature.

Viscosity is tested by allowing a small amount of oil to flow through an aperture. The quicker the oil flows the lower the viscosity rating number.

The first number rates the viscosity of the oil tested at 0 degrees F, mimicking cold winter weather which is why the 'W' designation is added to the end of the first number. The second number designates the oils viscosity rating when the test is repeated at 210 degrees F, or the normal operating temperature of a fully warmed engine.

The 'W' rating can be 5, 10, 15, or 20. Lower numbers mean the oil is thinner in cold temperatures, neccessary for icy climates. The second number rating can be 20, 30, 40, or 50. Warm weather spots usually require oil with ratings in the upper part of the range that can handle extreme heat.
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Old 02-04-2011, 10:46 PM   #42
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Actually the W doesnt stand for weight even though this is a common misconception when people speak of oil ratings. It stands for WINTER. Neither number (before or after the W) corresponds to an actual weight. It corresponds to the oils viscosity (flow resistance) at a certain temperature.

Viscosity is tested by allowing a small amount of oil to flow through an aperture. The quicker the oil flows the lower the viscosity rating number.

The first number rates the viscosity of the oil tested at 0 degrees F, mimicking cold winter weather which is why the 'W' designation is added to the end of the first number. The second number designates the oils viscosity rating when the test is repeated at 210 degrees F, or the normal operating temperature of a fully warmed engine.

The 'W' rating can be 5, 10, 15, or 20. Lower numbers mean the oil is thinner in cold temperatures, neccessary for icy climates. The second number rating can be 20, 30, 40, or 50. Warm weather spots usually require oil with ratings in the upper part of the range that can handle extreme heat.
I know the W doesn't stand for weight, I wasn't talking about the first (winter) rating, I was talking and the second (operational temp) rating, you can also refer to it as weight. That's the oil weight (or viscosity) when you're at operational temperature. Apart from cold starts, it's the number that matters, and it's what I was referring to in my post.

If you'd like, just replace "weight" with "viscosity" in my post, it's just semantics.
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Old 02-04-2011, 10:58 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll

I know the W doesn't stand for weight, I wasn't talking about the first (winter) rating, I was talking and the second (operational temp) rating, you can also refer to it as weight. That's the oil weight (or viscosity) when you're at operational temperature. Apart from cold starts, it's the number that matters, and it's what I was referring to in my post.

If you'd like, just replace "weight" with "viscosity" in my post, it's just semantics.
I wasnt making the statement directly at you... I just wanted to clarify for those who may not know. And you cant refer to it as weight at all... Weight of what? An ounce? A quart? A gallon? Measured however you like it will not correspond to the viscosity rating.
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Old 02-04-2011, 11:08 PM   #44
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And you cant refer to it as weight at all... Weight of what? An ounce? A quart? A gallon? Measured however you like it will not correspond to the viscosity rating.


You don't take the word "weight" literally. It's just a term, slang if you will, and it's WIDELY used. Sure it's not the most appropriate term, but everyone knows it, and it's much easier to say than "dynamic viscosity rating".

While Wikipedia isn't exactly the most reliable source, it's usually a decent reference:
Quote:
The 11 viscosity grades are 0W, 5W, 10W, 15W, 20W, 25W, 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60. These numbers are often referred to as the 'weight' of a motor oil.
So calm down terminology nazi
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:20 AM   #45
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The first number is viscosity at startup temperature, the second is viscosity at operating temperature.....right?

Technically, then, any 0W will be the best for startup protection so long as whatever it is doesn't lose viscosity after 1-2k of operating. I assume this is why so many people love the "german castrol". I have been running Mobil1 0w30 for a little while now, and though a lot of it gets burnt up, my car seems to run quite well on it. I have been thinking about switching it up, but what I should probably really do is run it for a change, then have a UOA done, then switch to another kind for 3k and have a UOA done. I'll probably try it with the 4 or 5 types I can most easily get my hands on, and maybe do it once with Motul or Eneos or some other high-end, sparkly JDMZOMG oil and see what works best.
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:21 AM   #46
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Oh, this is what I have assumed after reading up on everything from bobistheoilguy, and from piecing some other stuff together. I try to stay away from the lubrication area of this forum, as it is so scientific that it confuses me too easily. ^_^
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:32 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Kentrik
The first number is viscosity at startup temperature, the second is viscosity at operating temperature.....right?

Technically, then, any 0W will be the best for startup protection so long as whatever it is doesn't lose viscosity after 1-2k of operating. I assume this is why so many people love the "german castrol". I have been running Mobil1 0w30 for a little while now, and though a lot of it gets burnt up, my car seems to run quite well on it. I have been thinking about switching it up, but what I should probably really do is run it for a change, then have a UOA done, then switch to another kind for 3k and have a UOA done. I'll probably try it with the 4 or 5 types I can most easily get my hands on, and maybe do it once with Motul or Eneos or some other high-end, sparkly JDMZOMG oil and see what works best.
The first isnt "start up temp". The first number is viscosity at 0 degrees F.
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Old 02-05-2011, 06:09 AM   #48
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So the 0 is useless unless I am living in Northern Idaho? :P


I can't think of a time at which the engine is every really at "0*F", as it were. That is basically freezing, and at any given time of the year, I think for the most part my engine when sitting cool and not having been turned on is probably around 50-70*F, depending on the season.
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:08 AM   #49
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I have a quick question? I am debating what type of oil i should change to Motul or Royal Purple, or does someone else have another oil in mind that is better. I want an oil that is good for a stock engine and is also good for a race engine i am honestly looking for the best that money could buy. thanks for the input in advanced
Forgive me for staying on topic and not simply telling you OMGuhave2runGCorRT6 and MoBIl1 SUX!

Between the two, I would definitely recommend Motul. However, you did not mention which car you have, your driving conditions, or how often you want to change your oil. All of these factors are important to consider when making an oil choice. As to RP, it gets a really bad reputation because (as mentioned) the 30 grades easily shear to a 20 grade. Is this a bad thing? I don't know because you didn't address the above. You would have to do a used oil analysis to determine that. I have not seen any data of RP 0W-40 or 5W-40 in a Subaru and they may be very good choices.

Regular Mobil1 5W-30 and 10W-30 also have a bad reputation because the shear out of grade. Most Energy Conserving 30 grades will shear to a 20 grade. Just look at the Syntec used oil analysis posted above. Mobil 1 non-Energy Conserving oils have shown to hold up very well (EP, High Mileage, 0W-40, TDT 5W-40). Also Mobil1 5W-30's viscosity at 100C is not barely a 30 grade. It is 11.1 cSt's at 100C. The first number is not the oil's viscosity when cold. It represents how well an oil performs on the Cold Cranking Viscosity test. Oil is very thick when cold, regardless of whether it is 0W-30, 5W-30, or 5W-30. W does not mean weight, and contrary to popular belief, it does not mean winter according to the SAE.

But you did not ask about those oils, so apologies for going off-topic. Motul makes a lot of oils. I've run the Eco-nergy 5W-30 with good results in winter. It's a thin 30 weight, but stayed in grade for me for 7,500 miles. It also meets the older API SL specs so it has a bit higher levels of Anti-Wear additives. It is a PAO based oil. A PAO based 5W-40 Motul would be X-cess. Want to move up to better base stocks? The soon to be discontinued X-max oils are very good ester based oils and the 5W-30 has a good High Temp High Shear to meet European specs. X-Lite 0W-30 uses the 300V's double-ester technology and has a very robust additive pack. The 300V is their ester based race oil that can safely be driven on the street for 5-7,500 miles (guided by used oil analysis of course).

Again, it's best to provide more details about your condition before choosing an oil.

-Dennis
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:52 AM   #50
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So whats the best oil in a 2011 STI for hard spirited street driving and occasional track day?
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