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Old 03-07-2011, 08:03 AM   #301
MindCrime
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Originally Posted by GriffithBuilt View Post
I'll give 5% off to any active duty military personnel for any product that doesn't have another preexisting discount.

That offer stands forever.

Jason
Since I'm no longer on active duty, prior service Marine Corps; I'll let you borrow my GD (06) sedan (lowered), to test fit for future products. I live in Portland and have a pretty lax work schedule that is usually evenings. Also car is all stock save being lowered.

I could hit the casino and you could come pick me up in it when you're ready for my own personal testing!

But seriously, supporting local business, WRX stuff, good sounding exhaust, PM me, you can borrow my car anytime.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:15 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by Olduwan View Post
He answered that question a couple pages back. It's because the hatch axleback has mufflers and more complex bends. It just costs more to make. If you look at the pics of both the sedan and hatch version, it'll make sense.
weird. subaru has the opposite thought. sedan is $> than hatch

https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/p...oducts_id=1753

https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/p...oducts_id=1752
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:25 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by Pineapple Devil View Post
weird. subaru has the opposite thought. sedan is $> than hatch
reread this
Quote:
If you look at the pics of both the sedan and hatch version, it'll make sense.
Still waiting on pics of the hatchback version installed! Anyone install one yet?
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:10 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Don Plata View Post
435 WTF, I WAS GOING TO BUY A SET NEXT WEEK
Deep breath, dood. The Sedan AxleBack is still $299. It's the hatch AxleBack which contains a muffler which is more expensive. I explained the reasons for the price differences earlier in the thread.

Jason
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:13 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by mrkyle3 View Post
When is the midpipe getting released? I won't be able to order the exhaust for another week or so.

Also, this may be a noob question, but how big is the box it comes in? Where I choose to have it delivered is dependent on its size.
Hatch AxleBack Box is 44x18x9; Sedan is 26x16x10

Thanks!

jason
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:16 PM   #306
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How can I get set for my sedan with military discount , I have my paypal account ready to spend some money !
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:19 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Pineapple Devil View Post
Indeed and if you look at their design you'll understand why the same applies to our designs. Our sedan axleback has NO MUFFLERS in it. Our hatch has 1 muffler. The SPT hatch has 1 muffler, the sedan 2. More mufflers, more cost. Likewise, if I were to build the hatch without a muffler, it would cost even more because I couldn't utilize the Y that is incorporated in our muffler. That means more fabrication time, more length of pipe, more bends, more money.

Make sense? And as for photos I'm hoping to post some up tomorrow night of the new hatch exhaust as we build the first units out.

Jason
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:20 PM   #308
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How can I get set for my sedan with military discount , I have my paypal account ready to spend some money !
PM Sent.
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:27 PM   #309
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Are you planning to use a dB meter to measure how loud the sedan/hatch exhausts are?
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:48 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by GriffithBuilt View Post
I'll give 5% off to any active duty military personnel for any product that doesn't have another preexisting discount.

That offer stands forever.

Jason
good stuff!

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Old 03-08-2011, 07:57 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by GriffithBuilt View Post
Indeed and if you look at their design you'll understand why the same applies to our designs. Our sedan axleback has NO MUFFLERS in it. Our hatch has 1 muffler. The SPT hatch has 1 muffler, the sedan 2. More mufflers, more cost. Likewise, if I were to build the hatch without a muffler, it would cost even more because I couldn't utilize the Y that is incorporated in our muffler. That means more fabrication time, more length of pipe, more bends, more money.

Make sense? And as for photos I'm hoping to post some up tomorrow night of the new hatch exhaust as we build the first units out.

Jason
why does pipe cost more than a muffler?

couldn't you run in the pipe from the diver side like it does now with the factory muffler then run a Y where the factory muffler would be to produce the dual tips?
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:01 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Pineapple Devil View Post
why does pipe cost more than a muffler?

couldn't you run in the pipe from the diver side like it does now with the factory muffler then run a Y where the factory muffler would be to produce the dual tips?
Pipe costs more than a muffler because mufflers are inexpensive and mass produced. Mandrel U Bends are expensive [edit: as a note, we don't buy crappy Chinese mandrel bends, all of our bends are made for us out of Rathgibson T304SS straight tubing]. Always have been, always will be, and in their use there is inherently a lot of waste. And an extensive amount of fabrication and pipe fitting work. The muffler I just slip the parts in and weld it up. The pipe is all butt-welds and a number of them have to be pipefit perfectly making them far less generous than working with a muffler. Have you ever pipe-fit a Y? It's two bends that you cut down the middle of the leg of each and seam them together. Know what happens when that internal ridge of the Y doesn't line up perfectly? It acts like a reed and makes spectacular non exhaust-like noises. All of these are things I don't have to spend time worrying about or considering when I choose to go with the muffler.

To your second question 'couldn't we just make a y and have the outlets be in the stock locations'

You could, it would exceed the price of the unit with the muffler. Period. The muffler has the Y built into it. Not only that but controlling drone on a setup like that is a b***h of gargantuan proportions. Especially with the asymmetric pipe length off of the y.

Ask me how I know... I built that exact same setup for the 2010 Mazdaspeed 3. The solution on that was to put a secondary resonator (surprise) on the longer leg of the asymmetric y (meaning the Y was near the midpipe flange and the two tailpipe legs were different length). So for that design I ended up starting with the most expensive method of designing the system and then adding the item in that could have solved it for me in the first place, but over and above the cost of the fabricated Y. Gotta love it, but I look back at stuff like that and tell myself 'I learned my lesson.'

You have to give us a little bit of slack here that a) we're doing things that make the most sense given our experience and background doing this in the past and b) we're not going to choose a design that costs you more for no reason. Our goals are to make reasonably priced parts that do what we want them to do.

Additionally, the drone characteristics of a hatch are radically different from that of a sedan. Designs that work on the Sedan may be horrendously loud on the hatch. Again, ask me how I know! I've been around this block before a number of times. This isn't my first foray into designing an exhaust system.

Finally, stick your head under your car on the drivers side and look at how close the inlet to the factory muffler is to the tailpipes on the drivers side of the car. Now you might have been thinking that you could put a Y there at the midpipe outlet and get from that Y to the tips on the driver side, but you'd also be mistaken. There just isn't enough room in there to pull it off, and if you can physically make it work, all of your exhaust is going to come out the driver side. Which means you have to relocate the y toward the middle and then snake back from the y toward the driver side. You just added two $40 bends, four welds and six cuts. :-)

Trust me yet? We started this project with nothing but the critical factory points fixtured (inlet of from the midpipe, locations of the tailpipe tips and hanger locations) and then we just shuffled parts around in there manually to determine what was able to fit under the car. We are by no means a 'keep it simple, stupid' shop. But with this design it was either overengineer the hell out of the design and end up with a $4.2B exhaust or look at the parts in front of us and come to the most reasonable and manufacturable conclusion.

And did you HEAR the results??? It sounds freaking awesome! Like Barry White yelling at his kids. Not only that but this design gives us the space to add an e-cutout for a full muffler bypass dump.

Jason

Last edited by GriffithBuilt; 03-08-2011 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:02 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by mrkyle3 View Post
Are you planning to use a dB meter to measure how loud the sedan/hatch exhausts are?
I did. At idle, the sedan is within 5dB of stock. Inside the car at cruise wind noise registers over the exhaust on the meter. I can do some more tests as well if you'd like.

Jason
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:18 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by GriffithBuilt View Post
I did. At idle, the sedan is within 5dB of stock. Inside the car at cruise wind noise registers over the exhaust on the meter. I can do some more tests as well if you'd like.

Jason
Wow so it's more of a sound upgrade rather than a volume upgrade, that's good


I'm curious as to how much louder the hatch version is than stock.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:57 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by mrkyle3 View Post
Wow so it's more of a sound upgrade rather than a volume upgrade, that's good


I'm curious as to how much louder the hatch version is than stock.
I'm just going to have to do some comprehensive dB testing on both and put together a chart. Probably not a bad idea.
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:13 PM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GriffithBuilt

Pipe costs more than a muffler because mufflers are inexpensive and mass produced. Mandrel U Bends are expensive [edit: as a note, we don't buy crappy Chinese mandrel bends, all of our bends are made for us out of Rathgibson T304SS straight tubing]. Always have been, always will be, and in their use there is inherently a lot of waste. And an extensive amount of fabrication and pipe fitting work. The muffler I just slip the parts in and weld it up. The pipe is all butt-welds and a number of them have to be pipefit perfectly making them far less generous than working with a muffler. Have you ever pipe-fit a Y? It's two bends that you cut down the middle of the leg of each and seam them together. Know what happens when that internal ridge of the Y doesn't line up perfectly? It acts like a reed and makes spectacular non exhaust-like noises. All of these are things I don't have to spend time worrying about or considering when I choose to go with the muffler.

To your second question 'couldn't we just make a y and have the outlets be in the stock locations'

You could, it would exceed the price of the unit with the muffler. Period. The muffler has the Y built into it. Not only that but controlling drone on a setup like that is a b***h of gargantuan proportions. Especially with the asymmetric pipe length off of the y.

Ask me how I know... I built that exact same setup for the 2010 Mazdaspeed 3. The solution on that was to put a secondary resonator (surprise) on the longer leg of the asymmetric y (meaning the Y was near the midpipe flange and the two tailpipe legs were different length). So for that design I ended up starting with the most expensive method of designing the system and then adding the item in that could have solved it for me in the first place, but over and above the cost of the fabricated Y. Gotta love it, but I look back at stuff like that and tell myself 'I learned my lesson.'

You have to give us a little bit of slack here that a) we're doing things that make the most sense given our experience and background doing this in the past and b) we're not going to choose a design that costs you more for no reason. Our goals are to make reasonably priced parts that do what we want them to do.

Additionally, the drone characteristics of a hatch are radically different from that of a sedan. Designs that work on the Sedan may be horrendously loud on the hatch. Again, ask me how I know! I've been around this block before a number of times. This isn't my first foray into designing an exhaust system.

Finally, stick your head under your car on the drivers side and look at how close the inlet to the factory muffler is to the tailpipes on the drivers side of the car. Now you might have been thinking that you could put a Y there at the midpipe outlet and get from that Y to the tips on the driver side, but you'd also be mistaken. There just isn't enough room in there to pull it off, and if you can physically make it work, all of your exhaust is going to come out the driver side. Which means you have to relocate the y toward the middle and then snake back from the y toward the driver side. You just added two $40 bends, four welds and six cuts. :-)

Trust me yet? We started this project with nothing but the critical factory points fixtured (inlet of from the midpipe, locations of the tailpipe tips and hanger locations) and then we just shuffled parts around in there manually to determine what was able to fit under the car. We are by no means a 'keep it simple, stupid' shop. But with this design it was either overengineer the hell out of the design and end up with a $4.2B exhaust or look at the parts in front of us and come to the most reasonable and manufacturable conclusion.

And did you HEAR the results??? It sounds freaking awesome! Like Barry White yelling at his kids. Not only that but this design gives us the space to add an e-cutout for a full muffler bypass dump.

Jason
Well said.
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:10 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineapple Devil View Post
why does pipe cost more than a muffler?

couldn't you run in the pipe from the diver side like it does now with the factory muffler then run a Y where the factory muffler would be to produce the dual tips?
First, this exhaust, even hatchback version is less than half of the cost of most others.

Second, if you have such a problem with their pricing, DON'T BUY ONE!

Third, if you know so much about exhaust and fabrication, build your own set-up and sell it to the masses!

I personally think that this company is doing the subie market a huge favor! Helping people get an awesome exhaust setup for less than $1k. Considering their prices are that cheap using stainless steel is just amazing. I have to buy stainless tubing for my work, and for 1/4" OD SS tubing it is almost $1.50/foot. That is for 1/4" OD sticks of tubing, not bent, or anything. One foot of the pipe these guys are using is probably equal to 15 feet of the small tubing, and that is just material.

Thanks for giving us a great exhaust option Nameless!
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:32 PM   #318
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Downpipe?
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:37 AM   #319
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Kind of glad I didn't get my car with the SPT exhaust. Definitely thinking about giving this setup a try.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:09 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by Big Dustin View Post
First, this exhaust, even hatchback version is less than half of the cost of most others.

Second, if you have such a problem with their pricing, DON'T BUY ONE!

Third, if you know so much about exhaust and fabrication, build your own set-up and sell it to the masses!

I personally think that this company is doing the subie market a huge favor! Helping people get an awesome exhaust setup for less than $1k. Considering their prices are that cheap using stainless steel is just amazing. I have to buy stainless tubing for my work, and for 1/4" OD SS tubing it is almost $1.50/foot. That is for 1/4" OD sticks of tubing, not bent, or anything. One foot of the pipe these guys are using is probably equal to 15 feet of the small tubing, and that is just material.

Thanks for giving us a great exhaust option Nameless!
Well said x2
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:13 AM   #321
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Downpipe?
Yes, it's in process right now. I do not have any prices. It has a 3D profiled CNC machined divorced flange & island among other things that haven't yet been done in this market. It's not going to be a 5 minute build either, there will be some serious validation done on it and will most likely include a proprietary AP tune. If anyone here locally (PDX) wants to beta test one and get some dyno time, PM me.

Jason
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:21 AM   #322
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Any discounts for combat vets? :]
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:29 AM   #323
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Im in the process on ordering a set of axle back pipes for my sedan , I can't wait to install them staggered double walls from nameless performance ! And I'm getting a military discount too, Awesome ! Big thanks to Jason
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:50 AM   #324
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wish i would have saw this before i spent a **** load on an invidia =)
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:32 PM   #325
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All depends on what goals you guys have...yes for sound is cheap, but if you plan on going stage 2 or something than a full 3" cbe is better.
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