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Old 07-11-2002, 01:51 AM   #1
ScoobieSnaX
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Default Knock Knock.....who's there?

Can anyone assist with the following graphs? I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of these spikes. It happens 9/10 times and I'm thinking it might be related to the accel values.

The accel values, as I understand them, are for fuel enrichment to help throttle response. I'm wondering if this has an affect longer than a few seconds.

The image below shows two quick HUGE spikes as I come on boost....there is a shift change, then BANG....again (smaller but still above 110).


This next image shows another spike as I come on boost....just as it hits the top.....another shift and another spike right before I shut 'er down.



This last image shows no spike as I come on boost but two spikes when I shift.......no major changes were made to the timing between all three runs. I can't seem to figure out how to get rid of it...

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Old 07-11-2002, 03:03 AM   #2
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You aren't graphing your oxy? What is it during those periods of time? And what do you have your accel numbers set at?

I'd add the O2 sensor reading to these graphs, and see what's going on with that. Its not perfect, but its a lot better than nothing.
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Old 07-11-2002, 10:19 AM   #3
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....actually I think the "oxy" reading is so worthless I don't even bother looking at it. My wide-band o2 reads from 11:1 to 10:8 during all pulls. I know the a/f ratio is good and my timing is nearly identical to the base map.
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Old 07-11-2002, 10:21 AM   #4
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You were previously running your Accel numbers below the stock maps? Have you tried setting that back to stock and seeing if that fixed the trouble?

What are your A/F's in the knock ranges. You have wideband o2 right?

Also try taking a degree of timing out @ 4500-5000.

We really need two values in your scans... ADV (timing) and OXY (A/F.)

-Jonathan
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Old 07-11-2002, 10:40 AM   #5
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Sorry to hijack for a moment. (free bump? )
How do you capture the screens like that?
I know, beat me over the head...
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Old 07-11-2002, 11:22 AM   #6
mynew02
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Wizard...


Select Datalogging -> Play Back -> Bring the playback window to the top of your screen -> Hit Open File and select your file -> Now double click the Data Plotting button -> Hit play on Data Plotting window -> Hit play on the small Data Logging window you moved to the top.

-Jonathan
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Old 07-11-2002, 11:38 AM   #7
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ya, all that and hit "ALT+Print Scrn", open Paint, paste the pic.
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Old 07-11-2002, 11:44 AM   #8
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Ah, OK. Thanks guys. I would have thought it worked like that, but I never tried pressing play on the plot before play on the log. Cool. Alt-PrtScrn.
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Old 07-11-2002, 11:46 AM   #9
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Okay....by popular demand, here are the pix.





...here is my map ----> HERE

...here are the datalogs

one
two
three
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Old 07-11-2002, 11:51 AM   #10
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Your timing looks a little on the high side from 3700-4900 (I can't see where you are below that.) I would especially drop it 1 or even 2 degrees where you are getting knock. At 3700 I'm at +2 or 3 degrees (like the stock Link map) and your at like +8 degrees.

Notice mine drops to the +2 mark around 3500:



By the way if your looking to evaluate your map do a 3rd gear pull from 1500 RPM to redline (like a dyno run) and you will be able to see the full RPM range. It's easier to evaluate.

-Jonathan

Last edited by mynew02; 07-11-2002 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 07-11-2002, 01:16 PM   #11
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snax - have you tried putting your wakeup pulse to 0?

I bet what is being picked up is fuel hitting the piston head. Your running pretty rich. I try to run 12...

I would also reduce zone 825 - 45 by 3 degrees..see what happens...

what octane are you running?
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Old 07-11-2002, 01:17 PM   #12
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I don't know why but mine has always come up with a knock on gear changes too, I have rune several entirely different setups and have found that they will always show more knocks during a gear change.
My computer logs knocks upto 15 max and 8 is considered acceptable.
On a hard pull in 5th gear i will see three to five knocks but if i rip it through the gears occasionally I will see the logged knocks upto 12 but it only happens on gearchanges.

I have never lost a motor to this type of detonation and would suspect its because the fuel is going lean as you back off sharply to change gear, air is still flowing in there as is some fuel.

You are correct in saying O2 values are worthless in this situation as even high speed wide range O2 sensors cannot pickup A/F ratios in these circumstances.

My advice is don't worry about it unless the motor breaks (highly unlikely)

Also the knock sensor is a piezo microphone, it "hears" detonation, it does also hear Blow off valves and shreeking (supersonic airflows) that occurs when things are snapped open and shut such as the throttle.

As someone else said do a run in 4th gear at full load, ie a hill if you can find one and wring its neck, if it doesnt knock then dont worry about the gearchange knock.
PLAYER
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Old 07-11-2002, 01:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by JenisonWRX
snax - have you tried putting your wakeup pulse to 0?

I bet what is being picked up is fuel hitting the piston head. Your running pretty rich. I try to run 12...

I would also reduce zone 825 - 45 by 3 degrees..see what happens...

what octane are you running?
Fuel hitting the piston head? Is that a wild guess or do you know of this actually causing knk values to rise? (no flame intended here, just clarifying) Because that would explain my situation, as I'm running richer than a rich thing in rows 7 and 8, but still getting knk values 20-30 higher than everyone else here except Mr. Snax.
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Old 07-11-2002, 02:04 PM   #14
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no its not a wild guess...

fuel can puddle on the head and cause the mic to pick up that noise. I've read about it and even was told by another tuner that was happening to me awhile ago...when I had some weird knock values.

just wondering if when he gets on it ... if the injectors just barf out fuel and cause that noise...

*shrug*
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Old 07-11-2002, 02:09 PM   #15
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edit - silly slow work computer...
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Old 07-11-2002, 03:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by JenisonWRX
snax - have you tried putting your wakeup pulse to 0?

I bet what is being picked up is fuel hitting the piston head. Your running pretty rich. I try to run 12...

I would also reduce zone 825 - 45 by 3 degrees..see what happens...

what octane are you running?
Cool. I'll give it a try. I'm running 92 octane rat piss
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Old 07-11-2002, 04:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by PLAYER
I don't know why but mine has always come up with a knock on gear changes too, I have rune several entirely different setups and have found that they will always show more knocks during a gear change.
My computer logs knocks upto 15 max and 8 is considered acceptable.
On a hard pull in 5th gear i will see three to five knocks but if i rip it through the gears occasionally I will see the logged knocks upto 12 but it only happens on gearchanges.

I have never lost a motor to this type of detonation and would suspect its because the fuel is going lean as you back off sharply to change gear, air is still flowing in there as is some fuel.

You are correct in saying O2 values are worthless in this situation as even high speed wide range O2 sensors cannot pickup A/F ratios in these circumstances.

My advice is don't worry about it unless the motor breaks (highly unlikely)

Also the knock sensor is a piezo microphone, it "hears" detonation, it does also hear Blow off valves and shreeking (supersonic airflows) that occurs when things are snapped open and shut such as the throttle.

As someone else said do a run in 4th gear at full load, ie a hill if you can find one and wring its neck, if it doesnt knock then dont worry about the gearchange knock.
PLAYER
Ya, I thought it might be random noise as you mentioned but its happening when I go 100% throttle......boost starts to build, then when it peaks -----WHAM, SNAP, CRACKLE, POP!! Well maybe not that bad, you get the idea.

I'm thinking if it were gear changing it would happen just before I let off the throttle or when I hit it after the gear change but it seems to happen just as the boost builds while my foot is at the floor.
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Old 07-11-2002, 04:46 PM   #18
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^
|
|

why do I get the feeling you had something with why he was in Time Out

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