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Old 04-06-2012, 04:40 PM   #10901
chanomatik
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Thanks! Lots of good info right now that I wasn't aware of. I'll have to research Subaru's definition of "off-road" because Alaska's roads are JACKED. From what you guys just speculated/stated, it seems as though I would automatically want to opt for the Sport because it's suspension/wheels are already optimized for "off-road" use?
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:13 PM   #10902
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Thanks! Lots of good info right now that I wasn't aware of. I'll have to research Subaru's definition of "off-road" because Alaska's roads are JACKED. From what you guys just speculated/stated, it seems as though I would automatically want to opt for the Sport because it's suspension/wheels are already optimized for "off-road" use?
Actually the Sport is only like .2 inches higher. Adding .2 inches to an already low ride height doesn't get you very far. What you want is a XV Crosstrek, Outback, or a Forester.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:17 PM   #10903
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Originally Posted by ocellaris View Post
Actually the Sport is only like .2 inches higher. Adding .2 inches to an already low ride height doesn't get you very far. What you want is a XV Crosstrek, Outback, or a Forester.
I already know that. I'm asking about what was being discussed concerning the wheels usage. The XV has my attention BECAUSE of the ride height, although I'll be honest in saying that I prefer my vehicle so be more car-like, so the XV somewhat deters me since it's basically a small SUV. I'm still single and youngish, so I'm loving my WRX, but if I ever get married then I would drop it for something with more utility, better gas mileage and less performance components in a heartbeat. I'd still want it to LOOK sporty, though, which is why I've been following this thread. I'm one of a few people in my local chapter that actually likes how this car looks, although everyone can see the practicality of it for Alaskan use.

So yeah, if they're saying the dark gray Sport wheels are for off-road use, but the non-Sport Limited wheels are for pavement use only, then really I'd want the Sport for Alaska. I was just hoping to have that logic clarified. Thanks!
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:36 PM   #10904
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post

So yeah, if they're saying the dark gray Sport wheels are for off-road use, but the non-Sport Limited wheels are for pavement use only, then really I'd want the Sport for Alaska. I was just hoping to have that logic clarified. Thanks!
I haven't seen anyone mention the Sport wheels were better for off road use. If anything, I would think you would be better off with the 16 on the Premium model so you have mode sidewall and less wheel.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:39 PM   #10905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thom52 View Post
...we specifically did NOT want the 17" wheels, which it states right in the owners manual to never drive the 17" wheels on anything but pavement....which seems especially odd on the "Sport" trims.
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
Actually the owner's manual states that only the sport model should be operated off-road.

There are two styles of 17" wheels maybe what you saw was related to the multi-spoke premium 17" wheels and not the gunmetal gray sport rims?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocellaris View Post
I haven't seen anyone mention the Sport wheels were better for off road use. If anything, I would think you would be better off with the 16 on the Premium model so you have mode sidewall and less wheel.
Just for clarification.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:46 PM   #10906
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interesting. we went through a similar thought process but ultimated got "stuck" with the 17" wheels since we wanted the leather (figure it's easier to clean up with a baby on the way)

lots of the premiums seem to come with the all weather package and alloys which were ones we were avoiding until we ended up with the limited.

we too couldn't settle for the base, regardless of leather because i wanted the paddleshifters for better control when driving in hilly terrain (i already miss my stick regardless) and the USB functionality and cruise control. i don't use the latter too much but my wife considers is an essential.

so far, i'm ok with the supposedly lowly Yokos, but i'm not looking forward to when i have to splurge and buy replacement tires. i often do it fairly soon after getting a new car, but we'll give these a shot for a while. they seem ok with my relatively tame driving so far.

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we usually like a VERY basic car....less to go wrong in the long run.

But what killed the buying a base for me was the lack of beefed up suspension, no paddles, and the 15" steel wheels with hubcaps. I don't think we could plug a USB stick into the radio for music on the Base either.

On the other hand, we skipped buying most options above our basic Premium because we specifically did NOT want the 17" wheels, which it states right in the owners manual to never drive the 17" wheels on anything but pavement....which seems especially odd on the "Sport" trims.
(Pluse the 17" tires will cost MUCH more to replace.)

The 16" wheels are marginal enough for the backroads of Washington state, where probably the 15" are really your best choice, but the 16" seemed like a nice overall compromise...for my wife's car.

I thought the lack of ignition light was a somewhat trivial tradeoff, as we have never had that feature before anyway and life did go on.
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Old 04-06-2012, 06:59 PM   #10907
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I have never once needed the ignition light. How can you see it from you seating position?
After three months I've still never tried to insert the key by touch. I always lean to the side and look at the light ring. The domestics I've driven have been rather easy to start without looking, because there's usually some sort of raised item near the keyhole to use as a guide, but I'm not really sure what they were thinking with the area near the keyhole being generally flat.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:14 PM   #10908
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
Actually the owners manual states that only the sport model should be operated off-road.

There are two styles of 17" wheels maybe what you saw was related to the multi-spoke premium 17" wheels and not the gunmetal gray sport rims?
First let me not that I am very careful in my wording, saying "non-paved". By no stretch of the imagination is ANY model in the Impreza lineup a REAL "off-road" vehicle. Heck, even the XV is pushing it as a CITY car, only showing it on smooth pavement in the new ads, just with 8 inches of clearance to sit up higher. I am talking about potholed rocky gravel/dirt/snowy roads at MOST.

I find the wording on page 8-6 of the owner's manual more of a tap dance than saying anything logical.
It starts by saying " Do not drive on rough roads or over curbs in a vehicle that has 17 inch or other Ultra Low Profile tires."

Then it says under "except SPORT models" .... The AWD feature gives it some limited off-road capabilities ...."

Then they sort of repeat the same limitations in the SPORT models section. " ....and is neither a conventional off-road vehicle nor an all terrain vehicle....."

Now can anyone tell me by what magic the 17" alloy gun metal rims make the car capable of off-road, whereas the 17" alloy Limited wheels do not?

I read the specs very carefully before chosing a model and only saw a difference in suspension between the Base and the rest. Can anyone tell me what feature makes the Sport more "off-road" capable than the rest? Or where that .2 inch extra clearance comes from, that suddenly makes it an off-road vehicle?
Everything I have read says the "Sport" model is ONLY cosmetic differences, without ANY performance or suspension difference.

Thanks for any clarification.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:29 PM   #10909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
The XV has my attention BECAUSE of the ride height, although I'll be honest in saying that I prefer my vehicle so be more car-like, so the XV somewhat deters me since it's basically a small SUV.
No comment on wheels from me, I won't be taking the subie offroad anytime soon! This caught my attention though...since the XV is basically a lifted impreza how does that make it a small suv?! When you get behind the wheel I'd imagine it'll be no different save for a few bells and whistles. Am I wrong on that? It has been my impression that is all the XV is, an impreza variant.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:37 PM   #10910
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Originally Posted by pxpaulx View Post
No comment on wheels from me, I won't be taking the subie offroad anytime soon! This caught my attention though...since the XV is basically a lifted impreza how does that make it a small suv?! When you get behind the wheel I'd imagine it'll be no different save for a few bells and whistles. Am I wrong on that? It has been my impression that is all the XV is, an impreza variant.
Well, they're not really calling the XV an Impreza "variant", but more of a derivative. It's aimed towards a different market. The Impreza is a car while the XV is being considered more of a CUV (I use "small SUV" very loosely, my apologies). I think it's weird, too, since it looks the same as an Impreza and has the same interior volume... It's like I could just buy an Impreza and lift it to call it an XV, but it doesn't really work that way since there are so many things underneath that will be different between the two models.

I haven't looked into the interior difference, but exterior-wise they're different enough that you'd seriously need to consider what it would be used for if say you went to the dealership that ran out of Impreza Sports, but offered you an XV instead.

Which brings up another point that I need to think about some more: What are the different demographics between the Impreza hatchback, the Impreza Sport hatchback, the XV Crosstrek, the Forester and the Outback? Seems kinda silly to have all those variations, yet kill the Legacy GT, not offer the Legacy 3.6R with a manual, the STI hatchback as a Limited, the Forester with a manual and continue the Tribeca (for now). Subaru is weird.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:23 PM   #10911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik
Well, they're not really calling the XV an Impreza "variant", but more of a derivative. It's aimed towards a different market. The Impreza is a car while the XV is being considered more of a CUV (I use "small SUV" very loosely, my apologies). I think it's weird, too, since it looks the same as an Impreza and has the same interior volume... It's like I could just buy an Impreza and lift it to call it an XV, but it doesn't really work that way since there are so many things underneath that will be different between the two models.

I haven't looked into the interior difference, but exterior-wise they're different enough that you'd seriously need to consider what it would be used for if say you went to the dealership that ran out of Impreza Sports, but offered you an XV instead.
.
Funny since the title of the article is "Subaru lifts an Impreza in an Apparent Effort to Steal Sales From Itself" Sooo...http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ew?redirect=no
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:14 AM   #10912
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how long does it take to start getting emails from Subaru about the status of your car? the dealer told me they placed the order on Monday, so I was hoping to see something from Subaru by today
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:16 AM   #10913
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For me the base model wasn't a possibility since it doesn't have Bluetooth and cruise control. The paddle shifters were a nifty thing to have as well.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:35 AM   #10914
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Ive had my base a week. I love that cruise is standard. Yes the light ring thing is nice to have, silly that it isnt there, but oh well. I didnt need anything else like bt or usb stuff. i rarely use the radio, and if i do its a cd or something. i really like the 2012. mine had like 36km on it when i picked it up. no issues thus far.
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:40 AM   #10915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin44 View Post
Ive had my base a week. I love that cruise is standard. Yes the light ring thing is nice to have, silly that it isnt there, but oh well. I didnt need anything else like bt or usb stuff. i rarely use the radio, and if i do its a cd or something. i really like the 2012. mine had like 36km on it when i picked it up. no issues thus far.
Cruise standard on the base model must be something that the canucks get that the US doesn't have.
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:55 AM   #10916
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Must be. It was a big selling point when I got my first sub in 08.standard cruise and air abs etc. It's a big thing for me. I didn't realize that you didn't get it standard on the us models. Strange huh? The 12 feels great to drive. Feels huge but that is an illusion. She's a keeper. My father drove it and two days later ordered one.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:04 AM   #10917
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Originally Posted by thom52 View Post
First let me not that I am very careful in my wording, saying "non-paved". By no stretch of the imagination is ANY model in the Impreza lineup a REAL "off-road" vehicle. Heck, even the XV is pushing it as a CITY car, only showing it on smooth pavement in the new ads, just with 8 inches of clearance to sit up higher. I am talking about potholed rocky gravel/dirt/snowy roads at MOST.

I find the wording on page 8-6 of the owner's manual more of a tap dance than saying anything logical.
It starts by saying " Do not drive on rough roads or over curbs in a vehicle that has 17 inch or other Ultra Low Profile tires."

Then it says under "except SPORT models" .... The AWD feature gives it some limited off-road capabilities ...."

Then they sort of repeat the same limitations in the SPORT models section. " ....and is neither a conventional off-road vehicle nor an all terrain vehicle....."

Now can anyone tell me by what magic the 17" alloy gun metal rims make the car capable of off-road, whereas the 17" alloy Limited wheels do not?

I read the specs very carefully before chosing a model and only saw a difference in suspension between the Base and the rest. Can anyone tell me what feature makes the Sport more "off-road" capable than the rest? Or where that .2 inch extra clearance comes from, that suddenly makes it an off-road vehicle?
Everything I have read says the "Sport" model is ONLY cosmetic differences, without ANY performance or suspension difference.

Thanks for any clarification.
First off I have no intention of driving my Sport off-road except over my lawn perhaps.

My guess is the Sport model has "off-road capabilities" because it has larger wheels -- more space under the car to avoid obstacles. There is also a rear sway bar and rear suspension rebound springs that the base models do not come equipped with (premium and above have these additions).

The XV is going to have 8.7" ground clearance (the Sport has 5.9" and I assume a premium with the 17" wheel package has 5.9" but any other model is lower). The XV looks to be a slightly more expensive lifted Impreza with suspension tweaks (interior will probably be the same).

Lifting your own car may be an option, but I am pretty sure when Subaru retunes the suspension on the XV they are paying attention as much to the VDC and making sure the vehicle is stable so it won't roll over as they are to the height they achieve when they raised it. I suspect if you lift a regular Impreza whatever improvements you make could also invalidate the warranty on other parts of the car that could be affected.

If the language in the owners manual bugs you, take it up with Subaru. Whoever posted that the Sport should not be taken off-road is directly contradicting the language in the owners manual. That's why I think if they did read it somewhere it may apply to the multi-spoke but not the gunmetal gray rims.

Last edited by Zeeper; 04-07-2012 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:08 AM   #10918
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Good luck getting a straight answer from Subaru. If you really bug them you'll get a response but don't expect it quickly. It took them over a month to officially respond to a basic question I had.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:15 AM   #10919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
First off I have no intention of driving my Sport off-road except over my lawn perhaps.

My guess is the Sport model has "off-road capabilities" because it has larger wheels -- more space under the car to avoid obstacles. There is also a rear sway bar and rear suspension rebound springs that the base models do not come equipped with (premium and above have these additions).

The XV is going to have 8.7" ground clearance (the Sport has 5.9" and I assume a premium with the 17" wheel package has 5.9" but any other model is lower). ........
wrong on too many accounts to let this go.....

ONLY the Sport has the 5.9" clearance, with the .2inch mystery extra over ALL the other combos, including the Premium with 17" wheels and the Limited with 17" wheels, which are 5.7" on ALL models.

There are NO differences UNDER the different models, according to Subaru official info. (other than the Base suspension difference) And in fact there is no mention of the XV having ANY under car differences, not even mention of adding a skid plate, which is probably unecessary for a City AWD anyway.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:20 AM   #10920
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Well, since you're the Internet expert we will all defer to you for any questions including those about the XV (you know for a fact all about the suspension changes and tuning that Subaru made to the XV to raise it higher without creating the headline "Subaru Fiasco -- XV's Recalled due to rollovers -- Engineering Executives resign en masse in ritualized Corporate Seppuku"?).

Sure you could (if motivated) raise your own Subaru and make your own XV version in your garage. You likely don't have access to the testing equipment that Subaru does to make sure the stability of the car is not compromised. Given they market the cars based upon safety don't you think they may have spent a little time working out any kinks with the XV before they started to roll it out?

In any case the XV is also slightly heavier and more expensive than the Impreza, with the same 2.0 engine, so other than appearances and a little more ground clearance I don't see that it has much going for it (I don't want one).

Secondly, did you measure the ground clearance of a Premium Impreza with 17" multi spoke wheels?

It seems odd that one would arrive with the same exact tire and rim diameter as a Sport but the premium with a 17" multi-spoke wheel would be lower than the Sport. If that is the case, where is the Sport getting that extra height from given the suspension is the same?

You obviously should contact Subaru and have all of the owners manuals recalled or at least a corrective sticker put out saying that the Sport model is in no way superior to the model you purchased (because you seem to have an inferiority complex over the fact that you cannot take yours "off-road").

As I wrote I can only guess why Subaru thinks my Sport is superior to your Premium -- but that is what they printed in the manual, so it must be true.

Or you are totally right, and Subaru's owners manual is completely wrong. Get to work having a corrective sticker or recall done!

Please let me know before I do something rash like drive mine off-road through the woods just because I can...

Last edited by Zeeper; 04-07-2012 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:26 AM   #10921
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We all need to calm down here! Stop being so judgmental with peoples posts. WE ARE ALL THE SAME FAMILY!
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:31 AM   #10922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper
Secondly, did you measure the ground clearance of a Premium Impreza with 17" multi spoke wheels?

As I wrote I can only guess why Subaru thinks my Sport is superior to your Premium -- but that is what they printed in the manual, so it must be true.
First off the overall tire dimension (205) is the same for the 16" & 17" wheels, it's the wheel/spoke area that's larger. So clearance for either size wheel is the same considering the tire isn't wider from one to the other. The Sport does sit higher than the Premium with 17" Alloys. Considering 17" Alloys are Standard on Limited models & Limited doesn't have the extra clearance that the Sports do. I'm pretty sure it's intended to make room for other options like the aero splash guards/strakes & under spoiler more than anything, not for wheel clearance.

Also pretty sure the manual doesn't have Subaru saying that Sports are "superior" to Premiums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ST Eye
We all need to calm down here! Stop being so judgmental with peoples posts. WE ARE ALL THE SAME FAMILY!
Having said all that, I'm with STEye. Relax guys. We all bought the trim level that made us happy for our own reasons so be happy with them!
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:45 AM   #10923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepNMnky View Post
The Sport does sit higher than the Premium with 17" Alloys. Considering 17" Alloys are Standard on Limited models & Limited doesn't have the extra clearance that the Sports do. I'm pretty sure it's intended to make room for other options like the aero splash guards/strakes & under spoiler more than anything, not for wheel clearance.

Also pretty sure the manual doesn't have Subaru saying that Sports are "superior" to Premiums.
The manual does say that Sport models may be taken "off-road" which we mostly all agree is B.S.

If the Sport is taller, it has to be either the wheels or that the suspension is different between the Sport and the other models.

I doubt the extra height has anything to do with the aero splash guards or strakes (the aero splash guards hang lower than the strakes, but look like they are actually shorter than the Premium model splash guards).
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:46 AM   #10924
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Just got a email.saying they have a swp prem.cvt with all weather package coming in. The sticker is 22100.00 and he would let it go for 20,250.00 with dest. and.give.me.23000 for my honda crv. BUT still need to pay honda 8 grand. do you.think this is a good deal
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:59 AM   #10925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
The manual does say that Sport models may be taken "off-road" which we mostly all agree is B.S.

If the Sport is taller, it has to be either the wheels or that the suspension is different between the Sport and the other models.

I doubt the extra height has anything to do with the aero splash guards or strakes (the aero splash guards hang lower than the strakes, but look like they are actually shorter than the Premium model splash guards).
According to cars101.com "Sport does not mean more power or a sportier car. The 'Sport' is outdoor Sport related, thus the roof rails and very very slightly raised suspension." The suspension is the same but it is raised. What the intention is behind that.... your guess is as good as mine. If .2" is going to allow for "off-road"... meh. We're on the same page there. I'm interested to see what the Crosstrek/XV suspension ends up with & how it handles.
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