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Old 06-22-2012, 11:45 AM   #12826
ocellaris
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I think some people are giving the Yokos too much credit for their MPG. Subaru went with the Yokos because they are the cheapest tire they could get.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:05 PM   #12827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocellaris View Post
I think some people are giving the Yokos too much credit for their MPG. Subaru went with the Yokos because they are the cheapest tire they could get.
Actually, on Tire Rack, they're quite pricey! There are lots of other tires in the same size that cost a fraction of these Yokos.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:10 PM   #12828
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Actually, on Tire Rack, they're quite pricey! There are lots of other tires in the same size that cost a fraction of these Yokos.
They are pricey because they are pretty much sold for OEM use, and they know when someone blows a tire, they will likely buy another one of the same time. There is a huge markup on these for when people need replacement tires.

If you check Yoko's webpage, they don't even list the tires (or at least they didn't a few weeks ago).
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:44 PM   #12829
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Originally Posted by ocellaris View Post
They are pricey because they are pretty much sold for OEM use, and they know when someone blows a tire, they will likely buy another one of the same time. There is a huge markup on these for when people need replacement tires.

If you check Yoko's webpage, they don't even list the tires (or at least they didn't a few weeks ago).
Sorry if reality has a bias that you find disagreeable. These tires are not cheap which a 1 minute google search would confirm.

Yokohama tires are fitted to many cars from the factory. They are not cheap, certainly not the cheapest that Subaru could find, and they are not crappy tires, and Subaru isn't the only manufacturer who thinks so.

http://www2.yokohama-online.com/gb/t...=tyre-products

Your theory that they are only made to replace OEM tires is a bit out there, the same could be said for any tire that any manufacturer chooses to put on a new car, and there are many, from many manufacturers. But they are also sold across the country for anyone who wants to buy them, not just to replace OEM tires if they blow.

They are probably harder than the tires you switched to, which accounts for a bit more noise but they also deliver a bit better MPG's than a softer tire, if that is what you got. If all Subaru wanted was MPG's they would have fitted even harder tires, which they did not.

I realize that some people changed over their tires as soon as they got the car because you read reviews from tire wholesalers and these tires weren't rated highly. Of course no one on those sites had driven the new Impreza with those tires on it. I have, they are fine tires. I'll replace them with something else when they wear out.

While reviewers of the tire used on other cars is ok info, it is not that scientific. Self-reported data usually isn't that reliable, maybe you can kick out a Consumer Reports test that shows these are horrible and should be replaced before you drive the car off the lot. So far I haven't seen anything close to that.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:12 PM   #12830
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
Sorry if reality has a bias that you find disagreeable. These tires are not cheap which a 1 minute google search would confirm.

Yokohama tires are fitted to many cars from the factory. They are not cheap, certainly not the cheapest that Subaru could find, and they are not crappy tires, and Subaru isn't the only manufacturer who thinks so.

http://www2.yokohama-online.com/gb/t...=tyre-products

Your theory that they are only made to replace OEM tires is a bit out there, the same could be said for any tire that any manufacturer chooses to put on a new car, and there are many, from many manufacturers. But they are also sold across the country for anyone who wants to buy them, not just to replace OEM tires if they blow.

They are probably harder than the tires you switched to, which accounts for a bit more noise but they also deliver a bit better MPG's than a softer tire, if that is what you got. If all Subaru wanted was MPG's they would have fitted even harder tires, which they did not.

I realize that some people changed over their tires as soon as they got the car because you read reviews from tire wholesalers and these tires weren't rated highly. Of course no one on those sites had driven the new Impreza with those tires on it. I have, they are fine tires. I'll replace them with something else when they wear out.

While reviewers of the tire used on other cars is ok info, it is not that scientific. Self-reported data usually isn't that reliable, maybe you can kick out a Consumer Reports test that shows these are horrible and should be replaced before you drive the car off the lot. So far I haven't seen anything close to that.
You are confusing cost to the OEM with aftermarket cost to the consumer. How much Subaru pays for a tire and how much a customer has to pay for a tire are completely different. Tire makers bid on contracts to supply tires, OEMs go with the lowest bidder. After that, tire makers are free to sell those tires for whatever price they want. Since Yoko really isn't competing for new sales on these, they can jack up the price. They don't list the tires on their webpage because these tires are competing against other tires for new set sales.

Its not just Yokohame that does this. As one example, Bridgestone sells a "Turanza EL400 2" that is used as the stock tires on numerous cars (like 3 or 4 OEMs use the tires). The tires are loud, wear quickly, and have little grip. People are lucky to get 30K out of the the tires (while hydroplaning). When you someone goes to buy a matching replacement, its like $160 a tire. Are the tires worth $160? Hell no, but people needing one tire will buy one of those before buying a set of 4 of a much better tire.

Quote:
Of course no one on those sites had driven the new Impreza with those tires on it. I have, they are fine tires.
The tires have been used on some Mazdas as well, feedback goes back a couple of years. "Fine tires" is obviously subjective, however myself and many others have found the Yoko S3x tires to be some of the worst all season tires for all season driving. I have a 2004 Outback with some of the cheapest replacement tires you can find, it handles snow way better (even with those tires worn down). That is with a less advanced AWD system as well. Before the Impreza I had a Jetta with two different sets of all season tires, each set handled snow stopping and turning far better than the Yokos (the Impreza accelerates much better with AWD). For anything but being stuck in deep snow, I much preferred the Jetta to the Impreza, and it is only because the Impreza tires are poor.

Driving home in winter conditions, I need to take an alternate route to my house because my main route doesn't get plowed reliably. There is a location where I need to accelerate from a stop, up a gradual incline, while turning, across two lanes of traffic, and then crest the top of the hill while straightening out and still accelerating. This is my "break point" for bad tires. With the Impreza as soon as I start turning, traction control kicks in because the car is already going sideways. Meanwhile random people in front of me are driving FWD Camrys, Fusions, Civic [whatever] and they go around that without a problem.

Hell my friend has a new Legacy with some stock Continentals on it, same thing thing. I was following him to the store one day in heavy snow. We each had two passengers to take people to the store for lunch. He was going along fine, I almost ran into a sign post on the other side of the road when making a sharp right turn at the same speed he was.

I don't know what tires people had on cars before they got their Impreza, however I have seen zero evidence that the Yokos are any better than marginal. They have consistently performed worse in the winter than any other set of tires I have owned in the last decade.

Side note: Sometimes I have to drive upwards of 15K miles during the winter, I stick with all season now because I was killing snow tires very quickly.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:41 PM   #12831
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OMG buy new tires and give it a rest. They're acceptable for 90% of buyers. You're in the minority. So what...
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:59 PM   #12832
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Originally Posted by hemophilic View Post
OMG buy new tires and give it a rest. They're acceptable for 90% of buyers. You're in the minority. So what...
Presuming 90% of people want marginal tires for the snow, I am right there with you
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:22 PM   #12833
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Anyone? I need the part number
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:56 PM   #12834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocellaris View Post
Presuming 90% of people want marginal tires for the snow, I am right there with you
Nokian has some good info on their FAQ page requiring winter tires/tyres and low rolling resistance and noise.
http://www.nokiantires.com/faq

If you are looking for the ultimate compromise, do-everything, LRR tire, their WRG2 "All Weather tire" comes pretty pretty darn close.

I have been running them year round on a couple of cars for a number of years. Albeit in the Northwest we only get sporadic snow conditions, supplemented by my drives into the mountains and backroading in the mountains.

Their eNTRYE "All Season" tire seems intriguing for LRR, but I can't find ANY reviews, and since the WRG2 is LRR and generally lasts 40,000 miles with darn good snow traction, its hard to justify the eNTRYE, unless maybe it lasts a lot longer, and you don't drive snow.

Both of those Nokians are available for the 16 inch Impreza wheel size. Not sure about 17".

Also their Hakkapelita R (sp???) is a TRUE "winter tire" and is also rated LRR.

I will probably run the yokos down before I replace, depending on how they do for my wife's round town driving next winter. Unlike the Good Year POS tires that came on my Element that I replaced after the the first thousand miles.

YMMV
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:21 PM   #12835
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I've read that people with our OEM Yokohama tires say they suck in the snow, although these are people driving Mazda3's and cars like that. I don't know how these Yokos will do on an AWD car in the snow.

Assuming they're bad on the Subie too, then my options are to use a dedicated snow tire on a dedicated set of wheels (the optimal choice), or replace the Yokos with a better all-season tire, and then use the same tires/wheels all year.

In the 17" size that comes on the Impreza Sport Premium, the Goodyear Assurance TripleTred seems to be a good choice in all-season tire.
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:32 PM   #12836
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I think I'm going to get winter tires this winter. In my previous car I had Goodyear Assurance ComforTred all season tires which have good rating but were not very good in snow and ice. Though the Impreza tires are quite a bit fatter than my last car's.
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:38 PM   #12837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
I've read that people with our OEM Yokohama tires say they suck in the snow, although these are people driving Mazda3's and cars like that. I don't know how these Yokos will do on an AWD car in the snow.

Assuming they're bad on the Subie too, then my options are to use a dedicated snow tire on a dedicated set of wheels (the optimal choice), or replace the Yokos with a better all-season tire, and then use the same tires/wheels all year.

In the 17" size that comes on the Impreza Sport Premium, the Goodyear Assurance TripleTred seems to be a good choice in all-season tire.
I drove with them in the snow, the car is a tank. It would be better with snow tires, of course, but in small amounts of snow they are as good as any other all season tire.

When us 'early adopters' picked up our cars in December there was a big tire panic, some people replaced the new tires immediately or went to snows.

I didn't, in the small amount of snow we got last winter, and in retrospect, I'm glad I just stuck with the yoko's.

If we get hammered next year with snow I will probably get either snow tires or nokian WRG2's which are snow rated all seasons.
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:40 PM   #12838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
In the 17" size that comes on the Impreza Sport Premium, the Goodyear Assurance TripleTred seems to be a good choice in all-season tire.
I had the Assurance TripleTred on our Honda Accord and was extemely disappointed with them. REALLY bad on snowy and even just generally slippery conditions, AND they wore out fast.

I am definitely open to considering tires other than Nokians, but the TripleTred are off MY list, based on my experience with them.
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:19 PM   #12839
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The stock yokos werent too bad but i got a deal to switch them out for dws for no charge so i took it. And boy was i glad, it snowed the next day!
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:22 PM   #12840
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The stock tires also suck in rain. I locked up all four tires under moderate braking on clean blacktop at about 40 mph.
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:39 PM   #12841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocellaris View Post
Presuming 90% of people want marginal tires for the snow, I am right there with you
What snow
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Old 06-22-2012, 05:01 PM   #12842
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Originally Posted by Shotokan07 View Post
The stock yokos werent too bad but i got a deal to switch them out for dws for no charge so i took it. And boy was i glad, it snowed the next day!
Did the same thing; however, had to pay about $360 or so for the DWS Extreme's. Dealer let me keep the original tires and I gave them to my salesperson because he ran over a big rock and ruined a rear tire. I had the DWS on my '08 OBS and liked them very much in deep snow and Slush. The Yoko's are rated something like 23 out of 25 in it's class and are noisy and are not diver friendly in rain, snow, or slush. To each, their own.
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Old 06-22-2012, 05:50 PM   #12843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Omaha

Did the same thing; however, had to pay about $360 or so for the DWS Extreme's. Dealer let me keep the original tires and I gave them to my salesperson because he ran over a big rock and ruined a rear tire. I had the DWS on my '08 OBS and liked them very much in deep snow and Slush. The Yoko's are rated something like 23 out of 25 in it's class and are noisy and are not diver friendly in rain, snow, or slush. To each, their own.
If I dropped $360 on tires to replace the brand new tires my car came with I'd want to believe that the yoko's are terrible, too. But really, 4,400 miles on them and they are fine.

And I saved $360 bucks.
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:19 PM   #12844
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The main reason for a Subaru purchase was safety - in all types of weather conditions. The Yoko's just didn't cut it and for me the $360 price tag was worth it. I also saved $500 for the pre-order deal, so it was pretty much a wash IMHO. Let us know how well the Yoko's are at 18k miles, or when you get a "real" snowfall to test them out. Now, for summer driving, I'll agree that they appear to be OK; although, a little bit louder than some others.
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:20 PM   #12845
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My previous car was a 2004 Pontiac Vibe that had
Continental ContiProContact as OEM
THEY WERE GARBAGE!!!
A dealer replaced them at 12K free of charge with
Goodyear Eagle RS-A
They were better than the above but still pretty bad in anything other than dry pavement.

After those were used up I went with the GY Triple Treads which were great but never saw any real snow.

My wifes car a 2008 Chevy Cobalt I went with the Bridgestone Potenza 960AS Pole Positions

A great tire on wet roads.

On my new Impreza so far I do not have any issues with the OEM yokos, but they have only seen dry roads so far and only 1500 miles.

I probably wont do anything until they wear out. And when they do I'll probably go with the Bridgestones tough I think they replaced the 960 with the 970.

Wet traction is a top concern for me over noise and fuel economy.

I wish there were some real test data published on Tirerack or other places for the specific Yokos used on the Impreza.
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:42 PM   #12846
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Hello all. How are things? Glad to see some familiar faces still here.
Sup dude, welcome back!
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:01 PM   #12847
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Originally Posted by thom52 View Post
Nokian has some good info on their FAQ page requiring winter tires/tyres and low rolling resistance and noise.
http://www.nokiantires.com/faq

If you are looking for the ultimate compromise, do-everything, LRR tire, their WRG2 "All Weather tire" comes pretty pretty darn close.

I have been running them year round on a couple of cars for a number of years. Albeit in the Northwest we only get sporadic snow conditions, supplemented by my drives into the mountains and backroading in the mountains.

Their eNTRYE "All Season" tire seems intriguing for LRR, but I can't find ANY reviews, and since the WRG2 is LRR and generally lasts 40,000 miles with darn good snow traction, its hard to justify the eNTRYE, unless maybe it lasts a lot longer, and you don't drive snow.

Both of those Nokians are available for the 16 inch Impreza wheel size. Not sure about 17".

Also their Hakkapelita R (sp???) is a TRUE "winter tire" and is also rated LRR.

I will probably run the yokos down before I replace, depending on how they do for my wife's round town driving next winter. Unlike the Good Year POS tires that came on my Element that I replaced after the the first thousand miles.

YMMV
I have Nokian WRG2 tires on my STI for winter use. They are good in the snow but are very loud. In factu much louder than the Impreza's Yokos. Also they are very expensive! I bought a replacement last winter and I payed almost 250.00 for one. If you live in places like Vermont and Colorado, they might be good for you.

When they are worn out I will not be getting them again. I feel that a standard all-season tire mated with the AWD is more than ample for my STI.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:13 PM   #12848
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Yeah I was an early adopter (first one on this forum and anywhere I know except for that one lady) and I drove the car is light snow. It performed fine for me. Of course you are going to get better performance with snow tires, but for an all around tire I feel the Yokos are ample. Again the whole tire debacle is very subjective and truly this topic is to each his own.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:16 PM   #12849
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I have Nokian WRG2 tires on my STI for winter use. They are good in the snow but are very loud. In factu much louder than the Impreza's Yokos. Also they are very expensive! I bought a replacement last winter and I payed almost 250.00 for one. If you live in places like Vermont and Colorado, they might be good for you.

When they are worn out I will not be getting them again. I feel that a standard all-season tire mated with the AWD is more than ample for my STI.

I think they are about $500 a set cheaper in the 16" size on our stock Premium, compared to the 17" wheel tire sizes. Thats one reason we stayed with the 16" wheels. ALL tires are MUCH cheaper in that size.

Its been awhile since I have run anything but WRG2, but I think you are probably right about them being a bit on the noisy side.

They are NOT overkill on my AWD Element, which I drive a LOT in the mountains. But for our mostly town car (formerly Accord, now Impreza) I tend to agree its probably overkill for the Seattle area. Which is why I am paying attention to ALL the comments.

The Nokian eNTYRE sounds intriguing for the Imp, especially rated for 70,000 miles, super Low Rolling Resistance, and supposed to be ok in snow, but the lack of reviews scares me off a bit.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:17 PM   #12850
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On my VW Golf I ran General Altimax Arctics in the winter and really liked them a lot. Not overly expensive, and provided really excellent traction. And if the can provide that kind of traction on a front-wheel drive car, then the Impreza would be crazy good in the snow.
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