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Old 04-20-2011, 09:49 PM   #1576
kage
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Even as enthusiasts, I think we need to keep certain new realities in mind. CAFE regulations plus high fuel prices mean that the days of gaudy power numbers are probably over, at least for now.

All of the manufacturers are scrambling to meet the new fuel economy numbers, because it's unlikely that the current administration will cave on them. That means the focus has to be on economy rather than power.

On the bright side, that means that most manufacturers will also focus on vehicle weight, since that contributes greatly to increased fuel consumption. We may also see smaller wheels returning to fashion. Decreased weight means you can use smaller brakes, and that means you can use smaller wheels, which decreases unsprung weight and rolling mass, which means both better economy and better handling. I for one look forward to seeing sub 3000 lb. cars again. I wouldn't mind a turbocharged FB20 getting 200-220 hp for the WRX, if it's under 3000 lbs. and gets 30 MPG. A small, quick spooling turbo could make for a very fun ride, even if absolute power numbers are down. The current WRX gets great power, but is a total pig.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:01 PM   #1577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fashion Cat View Post
Credit goes to member Snow Drift.



For your comparison.





N.B. That aftermarket wing is from Varis, fyi.
I really like the white one somebody made...However, we need a 3/4 view, or from the front corners. hehe
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:04 PM   #1578
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Originally Posted by Catsmeow View Post
Great idea ... a 2012 Impreza WRX TR would be just the ticket to supreme happiness for me.

That may be a useful way to get around part shortages for the next few months until manufacturing in Japan returns to normal.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:04 PM   #1579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kage View Post
Decreased weight means you can use smaller brakes, and that means you can use smaller wheels, which decreases unsprung weight and rolling mass, which means both better economy and better handling.
This could be extrapolated to non-brembo STIs = WRX, the death of an icon!
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:07 PM   #1580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kage View Post
I for one look forward to seeing sub 3000 lb. cars again. I wouldn't mind a turbocharged FB20 getting 200-220 hp for the WRX, if it's under 3000 lbs. and gets 30 MPG.
That would be a fantastic WRX. More GC-like numbers.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:10 PM   #1581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kage View Post
Even as enthusiasts, I think we need to keep certain new realities in mind. CAFE regulations plus high fuel prices mean that the days of gaudy power numbers are probably over, at least for now.

All of the manufacturers are scrambling to meet the new fuel economy numbers, because it's unlikely that the current administration will cave on them. That means the focus has to be on economy rather than power.

On the bright side, that means that most manufacturers will also focus on vehicle weight, since that contributes greatly to increased fuel consumption. We may also see smaller wheels returning to fashion. Decreased weight means you can use smaller brakes, and that means you can use smaller wheels, which decreases unsprung weight and rolling mass, which means both better economy and better handling. I for one look forward to seeing sub 3000 lb. cars again. I wouldn't mind a turbocharged FB20 getting 200-220 hp for the WRX, if it's under 3000 lbs. and gets 30 MPG. A small, quick spooling turbo could make for a very fun ride, even if absolute power numbers are down. The current WRX gets great power, but is a total pig.
Yes, all of that. This new WRX could be a hair lighter than my bugeye based on 2002 vs 2012 Impreza weight comparison.

Volkwagen has been getting 200hp and 31mpg on the 3100 lb GTI. Subaru should be able to at least meet that. My vote is >240hp on the WRX to beat the Lancer Ralliart.
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:10 AM   #1582
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Originally Posted by Catsmeow View Post
Everybody got their 3D shades on for the NYC unveiling?
RSHolland ... I think I saw you a few minutes ago in a live shot!
It's possible I was there among the throngs. The live reveal was absolutely packed, as was the Scion coupe reveal.

Bob
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:26 AM   #1583
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Default Flip-flop...

Anyone surprised by the responses that have flipped 180 degrees since those spy photos surfaced. Not me...

BTW, I'll have some comments in the morning. It's after midnight as I'm posting this, as I just got in. A flat tire on the highway with my WRX set me back a few hours. Not happy—and am absolutely bushed...

Bob
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:28 AM   #1584
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Originally Posted by Fashion Cat View Post
Imagine this...

Next Subaru STI

Direct injection twin turbo 3.0L boxer six with the trusty 6 speed MT.

To hell with conforming with WRC regulations like its 1993.

Who's with me?

Or is this a future Subaru Legacy STI spec I'm dreaming about.
Not me. I don't want any more weight hanging over the front wheels. I'd rather more power from a four cylinder, no lag turbo, DI, a high performance CVT, and most importantly 4 wheel torque vectoring, and it must be a 5 door.
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:39 AM   #1585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsholland
Anyone surprised by the responses that have flipped 180 degrees since those spy photos surfaced. Not me...

BTW, I'll have some comments in the morning. It's after midnight as I'm posting this, as I just got in. A flat tire on the highway with my WRX set me back a few hours. Not happy—and am absolutely bushed...

Bob
Nope. There are people who can't fathom the idea that a test mile doesn't represent the final appearance of the car. Trying to convey the subtleties of distortion from telephoto lenses is way beyond the pale.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:00 AM   #1586
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I wonder why the 5MT is still in the Impreza? Is it to keep the distinction between this new "baby Legacy" and the actual Legacy? Or...perhaps they are saving the Legacy 6MT for the WRX?

Has anyone heard anything on this subject or can someone provide some plausible speculation?
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:02 AM   #1587
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The wagon is def the better of the two. Still McLovin my 2005 WRX Wagon though.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:07 AM   #1588
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Looks like they might have a couple new colors too... I dig the brown/red color on the sedan they are showing.
Yeah, the black cherry red they're showing plus an ice silver... silver w/a hint of pale blue. Supposedly the rest carry over. I hope they keep a true red.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:09 AM   #1589
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I'm digging the matte silver grille surround w/the chrome wings.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:10 AM   #1590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post
I wonder why the 5MT is still in the Impreza? Is it to keep the distinction between this new "baby Legacy" and the actual Legacy? Or...perhaps they are saving the Legacy 6MT for the WRX?

Has anyone heard anything on this subject or can someone provide some plausible speculation?
Only explanation that I can come up with is that this Impreza still uses the floorpan from the GR so the 6 speed transmission does not fit.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:12 AM   #1591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses
I wonder why the 5MT is still in the Impreza? Is it to keep the distinction between this new "baby Legacy" and the actual Legacy?
Most likely. It could be that they have enough parts stockpiled for a year or two and plan to drop the 6MT as a future update.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses
Or...perhaps they are saving the Legacy 6MT for the WRX?
I hope not. One of the few things going for the WRX these days (driving enjoyment-wise) is that the shifter is still using a direct linkage while most of it's competition has gone to mushy cable shifters for the sake of packaging and reduced NVH. I really hope they're working on building a direct linkage for the (non-STI) 6MT if so.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:17 AM   #1592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subySerb

Only explanation that I can come up with is that this Impreza still uses the floorpan from the GR so the 6 speed transmission does not fit.
The non-STI 6MT isn't any bigger than the 5MT IIRC.

The CVT was too big to fit in the GH/GR chassis. It's the bulkiest trans that Subaru makes, I believe.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:19 AM   #1593
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This could help push Suzuki out the door in the US, IMHO.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:27 AM   #1594
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Looks like I'll be trading in my 08 OBS for the one of these with a sunroof, once I get it paid off. I hit 50K miles today. Seems fitting they'd unveil the next gen on the same day. My only dislike is the clunky rear, but I'll certainly take the extra space. I cram a lot of stuff in there. The rear is as someone pointed out earlier, very Dodge Caliber-like. BTW, there are a ton of Calibers in Wisc.
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:29 AM   #1595
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My only dislike is the clunky rear, but I'll certainly take the extra space. I cram a lot of stuff in there...
...uh... never mind... I'll take the high road this time!
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:37 AM   #1596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subySerb View Post
Only explanation that I can come up with is that this Impreza still uses the floorpan from the GR so the 6 speed transmission does not fit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaverboy View Post
The non-STI 6MT isn't any bigger than the 5MT IIRC.

The CVT was too big to fit in the GH/GR chassis. It's the bulkiest trans that Subaru makes, I believe.
I recall Subaru saying they were going to use the Legacy style engine mounting system with the 2012 Impreza redesign... I presume they HAD to in order to fit the CVT.

As for why 5-speed? No clue... But considering the "6-speed" in the Legacy is just a 5-speed with an extra cog in the rear housing and cable shifters, its probably just the same case as the 6-speed but with the one less gear.
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:10 AM   #1597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post
I wonder why the 5MT is still in the Impreza? Is it to keep the distinction between this new "baby Legacy" and the actual Legacy? Or...perhaps they are saving the Legacy 6MT for the WRX?

Has anyone heard anything on this subject or can someone provide some plausible speculation?
I imagine that it's for the same reason that the Forester still has the 4EAT: segmentation. Since all of Subaru's cars overlap in prices to one extent or another, they must feel compelled to keep a few features exclusive to their higher end models. They could just as easily put the 5EAT and the 6 speed manual across the whole lineup, but then they'd have a harder upsell from the Impreza to the Legacy, or the Forester to the Outback.
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:39 AM   #1598
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Best looking impreza! Finally got some wheel archers! The old impreza had zero lines and arches on it. It was so boring. The sti version will be my next buy. Can't wait to see what the new turbo version engine is gonna put out!
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Old 04-21-2011, 04:30 AM   #1599
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Originally Posted by AllAWD View Post
Yes, all of that. This new WRX could be a hair lighter than my bugeye based on 2002 vs 2012 Impreza weight comparison.

Volkwagen has been getting 200hp and 31mpg on the 3100 lb GTI. Subaru should be able to at least meet that. My vote is >240hp on the WRX to beat the Lancer Ralliart.

the VW definitely doesn't get 31 or anywhere near going about 80mph...maybe around 70 mph. Up to 80 it's about a 20% loss from 70. now if you're just crusing round 55-60 you can get like 34-35mpg. but that's with a tune, which gives you about 1 extra mpg maybe more don't really know for sure...I just notice I can get more out of the tank with the tune.
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:00 AM   #1600
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Originally Posted by Beaverboy View Post
The non-STI 6MT isn't any bigger than the 5MT IIRC.

The CVT was too big to fit in the GH/GR chassis. It's the bulkiest trans that Subaru makes, I believe.

I believe they said this CVT is a 2nd gen CVT, that is smaller than the unit currently used in the Legacy. There are pics of the engine/trans from the show floor around the internet, it doesn't look all that big.
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