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Old 03-07-2011, 10:03 AM   #151
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So, any changes to the 2012 Forester XT?
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Old 03-07-2011, 02:52 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by GodWhomIsMike View Post
So, any changes to the 2012 Forester XT?
4 year model cycle means new model in 2013...
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Old 03-07-2011, 03:11 PM   #153
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4 year model cycle means new model in 2013...
2011 Forester N/A got a whole new engine.
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Old 03-07-2011, 03:31 PM   #154
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ehh the new foresters =/
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Old 03-07-2011, 03:38 PM   #155
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4 year model cycle means new model in 2013...
That means Tribeca will have missed two cycles for an all-new model (not refresh).
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:27 AM   #156
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:-/. I was hoping for a wrx redesign. I really like the current one, but can't wait another year before getting a new car. It'd be worth it if they wait until next fall/winter to release them, but if they release them in the upcoming winter in early 2012, and it's better than this years, I will rage.
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Old 03-13-2011, 05:19 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenri
:-/. I was hoping for a wrx redesign. I really like the current one, but can't wait another year before getting a new car. It'd be worth it if they wait until next fall/winter to release them, but if they release them in the upcoming winter in early 2012, and it's better than this years, I will rage.
Well, they always aim to get "better" every year. That's what customer feedback is for.

Just buy what you want now and be ahead enough to trade it in if the next redesign is that much more appealing. You'll still be happy until then.
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Old 03-13-2011, 05:48 AM   #158
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4 year model cycle means new model in 2013...

where did this 4 year model cycle come from?
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:08 AM   #159
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From an unsuccesful product like the current Impreza.

Since the Forester is doing well they will most likely stick with it for 5 or 6 years.
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:32 AM   #160
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From an unsuccesful product like the current Impreza.
Yeah maybe if you define increased sales as unsuccessful, sure.
Show me where Subaru has said the current Impreza is unsuccessful. Sales numbers say that you're wrong and just making **** up.

Since the '08 Impreza line was released I see more base Impreza hatchbacks around my area and than ever before. I live in an area generally overrun by Foresters (typically newer models) and Outbacks (older models.) Before '08 you'd rarely ever see an Impreza, base, WRX, or STI. Now they are becoming as frequent as the Outbacks I see everyday.
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:30 PM   #161
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Since the '08 Impreza line was released I see more base Impreza hatchbacks around my area and than ever before. I live in an area generally overrun by Foresters (typically newer models) and Outbacks (older models.) Before '08 you'd rarely ever see an Impreza, base, WRX, or STI. Now they are becoming as frequent as the Outbacks I see everyday.
I've been noticing this too. WRXs and STi's a more popular (not crazy like a Mustang, but popular) and the base Impreza is all over the place where I am.
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:45 PM   #162
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Well, they always aim to get "better" every year. That's what customer feedback is for.

Just buy what you want now and be ahead enough to trade it in if the next redesign is that much more appealing. You'll still be happy until then.

Yeah I guess that's true. That's what best resale value is for lol. Wouldn't be surprised if the new ones are rocking a 1.6 liter engine though thanks to the new WRC regulations. With mini, vauxhall and vw all making plays for new teams, nows the time to rejoin. I'd rather have a 2.5 than a 1.6 myself :-).
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:05 PM   #163
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since the 2008 redesign the WRX should have been a widebody from the beginning. Before `11 there wasn't a huge differentiation between the WRX and Impreza exterior wise which was a huge negative.

I just hope Subaru doesn't make this same mistake with the next gen WRX, WIDE BODY or nothing.

And for those of you waiting.... just buy a 2011 now. Subaru offers crazy trading values on other Subarus so over a 2 year period you won't lose all that much.
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:21 PM   #164
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since the 2008 redesign the WRX should have been a widebody from the beginning. Before `11 there wasn't a huge differentiation between the WRX and Impreza exterior wise which was a huge negative.

I just hope Subaru doesn't make this same mistake with the next gen WRX, WIDE BODY or nothing.

And for those of you waiting.... just buy a 2011 now. Subaru offers crazy trading values on other Subarus so over a 2 year period you won't lose all that much.
The widebody arches appeal only to a younger demographic. A car company knows better than to make a radical new design and drop it onto the public's lap overnight. Just like the bugeye it took people some getting used to at 1st. It was even considered too aggressive looking for some reviewers by the time '07 came around. Subaru was smart to ease us into a more refined simplified body when the GR / GH beduted. then they built upon that design once the new look was accepted and when a demand for an improved WRX warranted the redesign. (mainly to compete against Mitsu's Ralliart which filled that price/power gap between WRX and STI).

Last edited by jimmythagreek; 03-13-2011 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 03-13-2011, 05:14 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmythagreek

The widebody arches appeal only to a younger demographic. A car company knows better than to make a radical new design and drop it onto the public's lap overnight.
like the new outback which is selling incredibly well?
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Old 03-13-2011, 05:53 PM   #166
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^The new outback addresses consumer issues that plagued the previous models. It has more room and more SUV like elements (ground clearance/6 cyl power) I don't think styling played as big of role as utility did when it comes to sales.
If you think that Subaru somehow made a breakthrough in terms of styling/design w/ the Legacy then you must not have seen what Mazda's been doing for the past couple of years. I find the legacy to be a mish-mash of current design trends.

The RWD concept is the only Subaru that's got my attention in the last 10 years...
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:03 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by jimmythagreek View Post
The widebody arches appeal only to a younger demographic. A car company knows better than to make a radical new design and drop it onto the public's lap overnight. Just like the bugeye it took people some getting used to at 1st. It was even considered too aggressive looking for some reviewers by the time '07 came around. Subaru was smart to ease us into a more refined simplified body when the GR / GH beduted. then they built upon that design once the new look was accepted and when a demand for a better better WRX warranted the redesign. (mainly to compete against Mitsu's Ralliart which filled that price/power gap between WRX and STI)
The WRX appeals to a younger demographic PERIOD, it isn't an average person's car and the typical auto industry reviewer isn't exactly the WRX's target audience. You don't build a car to appease a journalist, you build a car for its intended audience. Published reviews are proof of that... most reviews call the WRX ugly, too aggressive, boy racerish, yet the actual people buying WRXs disagree.

Subaru was incredibly STUPID "easing" into a "simplified body" with the WRX, the sales of the 2008 WRX prove that. You don't build a generic car and hope people will buy it. You build a car people want. You have to differentiate the WRX for the base Impreza. It shows what happens when you don't listen to your target market and try to appease everybody else by starting off conservative. Which is why Subaru had to rush out the 2009 resulting in the early issues with the 265 engine.

The 2011 shows what Subaru should have done from the beginning. There is a reason why 08+ owners are trading in theirs for a 2011 and the 2011s are flying off the lots when compared to 10s... 09s....

You can start with a simplified design with a base Impreza, but with the WRX you go balls to the wall. You offer the best of the best from the start and make it better from there.
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:19 PM   #168
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^The new outback addresses consumer issues that plagued the previous models. It has more room and more SUV like elements (ground clearance/6 cyl power) I don't think styling played as big of role as utility did when it comes to sales.
If you think that Subaru somehow made a breakthrough in terms of styling/design w/ the Legacy then you must not have seen what Mazda's been doing for the past couple of years. I find the legacy to be a mish-mash of current design trends.

The RWD concept is the only Subaru that's got my attention in the last 10 years...
The RWD concept is the only Subaru that's got my contempt.
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:22 PM   #169
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^The new outback addresses consumer issues that plagued the previous models. It has more room and more SUV like elements (ground clearance/6 cyl power) I don't think styling played as big of role as utility did when it comes to sales.
If you think that Subaru somehow made a breakthrough in terms of styling/design w/ the Legacy then you must not have seen what Mazda's been doing for the past couple of years. I find the legacy to be a mish-mash of current design trends.

The RWD concept is the only Subaru that's got my attention in the last 10 years...
Haha doesn't sound to me like you much car about subarus then...a 2 door RWD car is almost the antithesis of subaru's design, and has been for more than the last decade. Sure, there was a 2 door RS, but they moved away from that when they became more performance oriented. If a 2 door RWD car is what you want, get a miata or 350/370 Z.
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:26 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
The WRX appeals to a younger demographic PERIOD, it isn't an average person's car and the typical auto industry reviewer isn't exactly the WRX's target audience. You don't build a car to appease a journalist, you build a car for its intended audience. Published reviews are proof of that... most reviews call the WRX ugly, too aggressive, boy racerish, yet the actual people buying WRXs disagree.

Subaru was incredibly STUPID "easing" into a "simplified body" with the WRX, the sales of the 2008 WRX prove that. You don't build a generic car and hope people will buy it. You build a car people want. You have to differentiate the WRX for the base Impreza. It shows what happens when you don't listen to your target market and try to appease everybody else by starting off conservative. Which is why Subaru had to rush out the 2009 resulting in the early issues with the 265 engine.

The 2011 shows what Subaru should have done from the beginning. There is a reason why 08+ owners are trading in theirs for a 2011 and the 2011s are flying off the lots when compared to 10s... 09s....

You can start with a simplified design with a base Impreza, but with the WRX you go balls to the wall. You offer the best of the best from the start and make it better from there.
Most folks who have an opinion here never knew Subaru before the WRX so they dont have any grasp as to the way the market was until the STI vs. Evo years had every kid beggin daddy for one.
I agree that the 08 was a hiccup that could have been avoided and it was a sort of slap in the face to '08 owners when Subaru upgraded the WRX to STI cladding soon thereafter. But Japanese Automakers have always been very passive when introducing models to the US up until recent years. Often capitulating performance and styling to meet the Hum-Drum US demographic (look at Nissan). Subaru was smart to ease into the Sport compact scene with the 2.5RS. That helped Subaru emerge as performance mark in the US. The introduction of the WRX only helped to establish a large foothold in a new US Sport Compact market. So, as that generation of playstaion fanboys grew older so felt Subaru the need to have the latest iteration of the WRX be more grown up as well.

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Haha doesn't sound to me like you much car about subarus then...a 2 door RWD car is almost the antithesis of subaru's design, and has been for more than the last decade. Sure, there was a 2 door RS, but they moved away from that when they became more performance oriented. If a 2 door RWD car is what you want, get a miata or 350/370 Z.
Go read my build thread and you'll discover that I care more about Subarus than most . The idea of breaking away from the norm and cutting away the fat that's been growing on the WRX over the past 10 years, is brilliant. And in the same way Subaru saw opportunity in the market in '01 when they introduced the WRX, they obviously see potential for adding something different to their lineup. Not sure if you know this but Subaru has plenty of non AWD cars being sold globally so not every single buyer needs AWD. Your last statement BTW is the exact reason Subaru should build it. Actually, to fill my needs for a RWD coupe for now, I bought a 135i. My GC8 is still faster and more performance oriented though.

Regardless of what others think, It's a coupe and it has a boxer engine...That's all I care about and all I've wanted to see happen for the past 10 years...
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:32 PM   #171
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Ugly styling is not definitive, and better, attractive styling never hurt anyone, nor does it provide a barrier for people to buy the vehicle. Some people will skip ugly cars, even if they are technically very proficient.

Audience should be considered. Some of that might be age, but not many 20-somethings, and actually fewer 30-somethings continue to have the buying power to buy new cars, thanks to other aspects of the politico-economic scene.

But an enthusiast AWD car, should cater to AWD enthusiasts, somewhat regardless of how old those enthusiasts might happen to be.

I agree with the RWD being separate from Subaru's game plan for the last decade. Coupes have been absent from Subaru, too, but Subaru has build several different models of coupes in the past, and almost nobody was building coupes around the turn of the 21st century, after CAFE favored SUVs which is one of the motivations for the Outback's genesis. Nobody is doubting the Outback's contribution, nor saying it should be cancelled, but that is not an enthusiast car for the most part.

2 side doors are not necessarily at odds with Subaru's enthusiast market, and coupes tend to be more enthusiast-oriented, as well. AWD and boxer power count more. Body style is a format for it to be packaged in. Coupes happen to be lighter, and more aerodynamic by their packaging nature, which is why most enthusiast cars are coupes, or roofless versions of the more lithe body style. An AWD performance coupe has been done before, and worked very well. Not as a mainstream car for everybody, but great for enthusiasts.

I agree with the sentiment of buying RWD performance from other brands. I have said that a lot. There are plenty of options, and I have no problem with more options, I have a problem with more RWD options BLOCKING AWD options.

Subaru should stick to AWD performance. They have the very good systems in place, and it won't cost them additional drivetrain R&D to spread their systems to a coupe body style. 2012 Impreza could lose 2 side doors VERY easily, as another body style choice.

AWD performance does not dictate that it should be ugly, just because subaru hasn't been great at styling most of the time. IDC has been pretty well received stylistically in the automotive press and commentariat.

AWD performance should not dictate that it be a certain bodystyle shape. That can be diverse, if desired. Coupe, sedan, 5-door, even Forester SUV if wanted, or even all of them.

For those who want a RWD boxer-powered coupe, that is being built, and should be, even if it is sold as a Toyota or Scion, and allows Subaru to keep their focus on AWD performance.

Trimming some bulk isn't a bad thing, but conversely, if a vehicle is too small to do what customers expect from it, it can get overlooked. I wonder if the FT-86 will be too small for some people to consider, but I do hope it succeeds.

As it is currently slated, JimmyTheGreek is going to get what he wants, from two different brands, of which he will likely not buy both. He'll probably just buy one car from one brand or the other.

Yet myself, and perhaps Xenri, and others who have voiced affinity for an AWD coupe, are the ones NOT being served with any option for an AWD performance coupe.

If two brands were selling two products, instead of one product for both, perhaps everybody could win by having the opportunity to buy what they want.

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Old 03-14-2011, 12:12 AM   #172
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Though I have a strong personal affinity for things with 5 doors, I very strongly support 2 door vehicles over sedans. On a more important note, 2 doors are indeed less fat, and in my opinion the lighter the better. Should Subaru release a new coupe with function in all of it's wheels, I'd proudly have it as my autocross car or weekend driver.
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:47 AM   #173
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That concept looks downright filthy! I wish manufacturers would actually take those designs straight to market though.
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:41 PM   #174
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I really hope the put out an Impreza that get's great gas millage. I'm thinking 6 speed mated to a 2.0L maybe even with direct injection.

What we'll probably get is a 4 speed auto and 10% better fuel economy. I don't see the incentive for me to sell my 1.8L any time soon.
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:02 PM   #175
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Well this one is gonna get the engine you see in the Forrester. Subaru is usually pretty quick about adjusting to what the people want, but I'll bet they aren't gonna have the direct injection ready by fall this year. Maybe that will come on the 2013 model though.

I am still leaning toward a 1.6 in the WRX and STi, whenever they decide to release those.
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