Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday July 28, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Subaru Models > Impreza Forum

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-19-2011, 11:11 AM   #2201
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

I figured "the game" is what dilutes products, or even precludes them in some cases.

I am much more interested in the quality of results than the stroking of egos. I'd rather the customers get as much of what they want, at the highest quality possible for the money they spend.

I couldn't care much less if so-and-so junior executive gets credit, or has sour grapes about not getting credit, or playing little office political games. I despise bean-counter mentality that caters solely to the bottom line by going after the least common denominator of customer, and telling other customers to pound sand, which is similar to the response I have gotten for wanting better and more diverse Subaru products.

That is also the core reasoning behind why I ask questions like why the Impreza has lost it's projector lighting...

why the Forester 2.5X Limited and touring, and ALL of the XTs have lost the manual gearbox option, and aren't competing with the other compact SUVs in it's class.

And why the Legacy has gotten bloated, too-far mainstream, and the 2.5GT is a shadow of it's former self, and nowhere to be found in stock.

Why the Tribeca has been left to languish, rather than truly improved, while other CUVs in it's class are still mainstream sellers for other companies.

And why Subaru would even slightly abandon its All-AWD-All-The-Time market position in the US, to offer a redundant product with Toyota/Scion, who could sell a RWD sport coupe under license from Subaru development, while Subaru could have continued to offer market diversity in the fact that Subaru sells what nobody else does, which is what they have been known for.

I don't play the game well, because I am far too results-focused.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 11:38 AM   #2202
LastResort
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 99289
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
I figured "the game" is what dilutes products, or even precludes them in some cases.

I am much more interested in the quality of results than the stroking of egos. I'd rather the customers get as much of what they want, at the highest quality possible for the money they spend.

I couldn't care much less if so-and-so junior executive gets credit, or has sour grapes about not getting credit, or playing little office political games. I despise bean-counter mentality that caters solely to the bottom line by going after the least common denominator of customer, and telling other customers to pound sand, which is similar to the response I have gotten for wanting better and more diverse Subaru products.

That is also the core reasoning behind why I ask questions like why the Impreza has lost it's projector lighting...

why the Forester 2.5X Limited and touring, and ALL of the XTs have lost the manual gearbox option, and aren't competing with the other compact SUVs in it's class.

And why the Legacy has gotten bloated, too-far mainstream, and the 2.5GT is a shadow of it's former self, and nowhere to be found in stock.

Why the Tribeca has been left to languish, rather than truly improved, while other CUVs in it's class are still mainstream sellers for other companies.

And why Subaru would even slightly abandon its All-AWD-All-The-Time market position in the US, to offer a redundant product with Toyota/Scion, who could sell a RWD sport coupe under license from Subaru development, while Subaru could have continued to offer market diversity in the fact that Subaru sells what nobody else does, which is what they have been known for.

I don't play the game well, because I am far too results-focused.
I haven't read so much self aggrandizing tripe in a while. Not playing "the game" puts companies out of business.
LastResort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 11:40 AM   #2203
awdG35killer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 75698
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:
2013 Legacy 2.5i
RMK #2 !!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
Nov/Dec can't come soon enough.
So damn far. And probably no incentives on it until january/feb
awdG35killer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 11:42 AM   #2204
manticus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 162857
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
I figured "the game" is what dilutes products, or even precludes them in some cases. I am much more interested in the quality of results than the stroking of egos. I'd rather the customers get as much of what they want, at the highest quality possible for the money they spend.
It's not just about egos, hip. Marketing data may show that your idea wouldn't sell well - does that mean you scrap your idea completely or do you just look for ways to get around it? Do you step on others toes to get your project of the ground? What if it fails? It's about building cooperation and consensus moreso than just bruising egos.

Quote:
I couldn't care much less if so-and-so junior executive gets credit, or has sour grapes about not getting credit, or playing little office political games. I despise bean-counter mentality that caters solely to the bottom line by going after the least common denominator of customer, and telling other customers to pound sand, which is similar to the response I have gotten for wanting better and more diverse Subaru products.
How could I tell you would turn into a petty rant about your wants? I think you would play the political game better than most. "Bean-counters" can also tell you what your company can afford, considering the risks involved. It's funny, because Subaru has stated nothing less than let you know that it isn't affordable and that if they could, they would build your wants in the future. Pound sand? Not once.

Quote:
I don't play the game well, because I am far too results-focused.
You play "the game" exceptionally well.
manticus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 11:47 AM   #2205
chanomatik
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Anchorage (...for now...)
Vehicle:
2013 BRZ Ltd 6MT CBS
SNOSLO

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manticus View Post
It's funny, because Subaru has stated nothing less than let you know that it isn't affordable and that if they could, they would build your wants in the future.
This. Patience, young Grasshopper.
chanomatik is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 12:20 PM   #2206
53x12
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206332
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In a tent
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by awdG35killer View Post
So damn far. And probably no incentives on it until january/feb

I don't think they would put out incentives on the new 2012 Impreza that soon after it comes out, would they? Seems like they should have no problem selling it with the new design.


Anyone know when we will start hearing about official pricing? Maybe in Sept?
53x12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 12:39 PM   #2207
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manticus View Post
It's not just about egos, hip. Marketing data may show that your idea wouldn't sell well - does that mean you scrap your idea completely or do you just look for ways to get around it? Do you step on others toes to get your project of the ground? What if it fails? It's about building cooperation and consensus moreso than just bruising egos.
Data is data. Data is directly related to results, and can inform good decision making.

Bad decision making, and the poor results of that, is usually the result of personality issues of the people involved, or bad data, or both.

Usually a reasoned outlook combined with accurate data makes for GOOD decision making, and positive results.

Someone doesn't like such-and-such... so it doesn't happen due to ego, even if it WOULD work. Someone prefers to play it far too safe, and the company misses good opportunities for growth. That sort of "politics" have an effect, and it isn't based on data, and usually not on product-related reasoning, but rather personality issues, and ego of people putting their own desires for whatever above others, either other employees with better ideas, or the customers who want something better.

Quote:
How could I tell you would turn into a petty rant about your wants? I think you would play the political game better than most. "Bean-counters" can also tell you what your company can afford, considering the risks involved. It's funny, because Subaru has stated nothing less than let you know that it isn't affordable and that if they could, they would build your wants in the future. Pound sand? Not once.

You play "the game" exceptionally well.
I don't want a Tribeca. Yet it is painfully evident that Subaru is letting Tribeca die as current. How is that "MY" wants? Even if Tribeca were successful, I wouldn't buy one, it isn't what I need.
But I DO want Subaru to succeed. Subaru says they want unit sales growth... NOT HOBBLING THEIR PRODUCTS MIGHT ACTUALLY DO THAT.

Again... bean-counts, as in quantity is DATA to be responsibly considered. It would be irresponsible to dis-regard data, unless that data is inaccurate. Data can be inaccurate, especially estimated statistics, depending on the intricacies of how it was gathered.

Bean-counter mentality is more of a personality issue of too-strict risk aversion, when the risk has good chances of paying off. A company cannot grow without risk, yet so many decisions, and the results of those decisions seem to be VERY risk-adverse, more than I think they should be.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 02:21 PM   #2208
awdG35killer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 75698
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:
2013 Legacy 2.5i
RMK #2 !!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
I don't think they would put out incentives on the new 2012 Impreza that soon after it comes out, would they? Seems like they should have no problem selling it with the new design.


Anyone know when we will start hearing about official pricing? Maybe in Sept?
Ya maybe not. I was just thinking of the dealers doing new years stuff like they usually do.
awdG35killer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 02:32 PM   #2209
keepclam
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 120244
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Everett, WA
Vehicle:
2006 Legacy SE Sedan
2006 Pilot EX-L 4WD

Default

Anyone remember when Subaru last offered an actual rebate? Maybe since the '10 Legacy/Outback launch? Their incentives have been very low for quite a while now. The current 0.9% to 63 mo (in my region at least) for top-tier Legacy buyers is nice, though!
keepclam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 10:54 AM   #2210
MattC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158
Join Date: Aug 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CT
Vehicle:
2011 STi
PBP 1999 2.5RS RBP

Default

Hip,

Is it my imagination, or is Subaru currently experiencing record sales?
MattC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 11:48 AM   #2211
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Record sales FOR THEM.

Still a drop in the bucket for most other companies.

And I never said they had to abandon their mainstream products in order to diversify and take some more risks on the 'sideline' enthusiast targeted models, or even make their best selling models, like Forester, even more competitive than it already is, with the other vehicles in it's class... or making Tribeca competitive period.

Who is to say that current records being set, can't be beaten even MORE if they were doing even more than they are currently doing.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 12:17 PM   #2212
BigElm
Always under your radar!
Moderator
 
Member#: 1568
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hawtlanta!!!
Default

Easy for you to say.... Think of where Subaru was 10 years ago and where they are now. They are obviously not biting more than they can chew. Smaller progressions make room for better improvements. Demands, industry and forecasting; all change.

"A drop in the bucket for most other companies" as you put it, has them at a lower profit margin than Subaru because they have to cast a wider net, larger expenses and R&D. I'm sure Subaru's intent is not to stay small, but their progression is leading them to be a very successful company. Not vacuum what they can and find themselves couple of years later trying to make a sale.

Some of your posts are entertaining but I don't think you gave much thought to your last one.
BigElm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 02:30 PM   #2213
MattC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158
Join Date: Aug 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CT
Vehicle:
2011 STi
PBP 1999 2.5RS RBP

Default

BigElm,

My sentiments exactly.
MattC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 02:59 PM   #2214
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Please do enlighten me, how making Forester more competitive with RAV4, CR-V and Sportage turbo doesn't HELP subaru sell more Foresters. Tell me how putting a 6 under the hood, and putting a PROPER auto or manual gearbox behind it won't help it compete, and get it more fuel economy along with more power. Subaru has the 5EAT, 6MT, and EZ-series engine in their parts bins.

Selling more Foresters is good, right?

How about making the Tribeca something other than an also-ran to the Outback by making it actually more passenger versatile. How would that hurt?

They are touting the WRX STI's prowess from Isle of Man to Pikes Peak, and beyond. Let's just HOPE that means an even more impressive next-gen STI is on it's way, rather than turning it into a turbocharged Honda Fit competitor like has been rumored, taking it in a completely different direction, and potentially leaving a HOLE where WRX/STI currently is.

They are making more money, with better sales. but they don't exactly have that many laurels to rest on. they still need to be pushing for better. They still need to be HUNGRY, not lax.

Hyundai/Kia is much more hungry than Subaru is right now. Kia Sportage Turbo vs. Forester XT is a big obvious single example.

Subaru needs to be channeling it's success into re-investment and pushing forward, because they need to realize that their success has a context in comparison to the rest of the market. They can't afford to just let things languish, and mainstreaming is not everything. If they ignore performance, they lose some of the base they already have.

As their performance enthusiast base, does the nasioc membership around here want Subaru to just mainstream the base Impreza along with Outback and Legacy, and just sell some NA Foresters, and chase mainstream appliance buyers, and increasingly more and more ignore you/us?

Or do I need to stop responding to this, too? I know my voice is getting nauseating to everyone around here.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 03:58 PM   #2215
BigElm
Always under your radar!
Moderator
 
Member#: 1568
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hawtlanta!!!
Default

I'm going to overlook your last comment being that I don't want to address you like a 5 yr. old.

Nobody is saying that Subaru can't make the Forester much more competitive; and chances are they will. The timing may not be to your liking or mine or anyone else's but I believe Subaru is very aware of this. Sometimes we as enthusiasts feel short changed on Subaru's offerings. I've already come to the point of accepting that they are slow to change, very cautious, too paranoid and not so logical at times - But that is Subaru.

When always want to see something better and sometimes quicker so they can get a piece of the action, but IF they don't feel confident for X or Y reason to counter punch the competition; they let them play their cards accordingly.

Hyundai/Kia are much more hungry but they also have much more money. Hopefully Toyota's affiliation with Subaru will change that soon.
BigElm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 04:51 PM   #2216
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Hyundai/Kia had a much worse public perception to overcome by the reputation for building disposeable junk years ago.

They have money now, because they have been bold for a while now.

Toyota is not the house of boldness, and have run themselves into the doldrums of going all-mainstream, and destroyed their reputation for performance cars, just what Subaru should NOT be doing. They are using Subaru to get back whatever they can manage to recover for affordable performance.


And, BTW, why would you insult someone by calling their voice or opinion nauseating? It is highly demeaning, especially for a moderator and official figure. How do you expect people to respond to public insults like that? I wasn't insulting others the way you insulted me out in the open forum. Frankly, I am disgusted, and I am not sure how you would expect someone to not be. As a moderator you should be attuned to stopping that, not participating in it or starting it.

How would YOU respond if someone insulted you? This is not the first time I have been criticized for my opinion's content, when I was NOT breaking protocol rules, but just having a discussion. If a discussion board can't handle a discussion, what is the point?
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 05:55 PM   #2217
BigElm
Always under your radar!
Moderator
 
Member#: 1568
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hawtlanta!!!
Default

Toyota and Honda had a bad rap in the beginning so what's your point?

You have been beating a dead horse with how you feel and yet my comment is insulting to you. Don't you think repeating your feelings over and over again is not insulting for everyone else especially when needing to skip or ignore your posts.
I have told you to slow down, have you listened? Now you're insulted by my comment. Just because I'm a moderator that means I can't voice as a member?

How long will you continue a discussion repeating the same thing with different words? Come on now...
BigElm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 06:09 PM   #2218
Velvet_Kevorkian
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 274908
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Vehicle:
2001 Legacy wagon :D
WM

Default

Mainstream vehicles churn money for other vested interests.

How many turbo'd legacy wagons did SOA sell versus how many actually bought them? Its a moot example, but any of us could fabricate our personal dream vehicles and ramble on and on and on AND ON about how badly we want one particular company to meet our expectations.

There are other AWD coupes available, if not soon to be arriving, Hip....but, will you gladly oblige?
Velvet_Kevorkian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 06:10 PM   #2219
Snowphun
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 1800
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Way South Shore MA
Vehicle:
WRX /Cooper S/Miata
awd/fwd/rwd

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
Or do I need to stop responding to this, too? I know my voice is getting nauseating to everyone around here.
Oh good, I was worried you weren't getting the message from all of us. Less posts would do wonders.
Snowphun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 06:51 PM   #2220
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigElm View Post
Toyota and Honda had a bad rap in the beginning so what's your point?

You have been beating a dead horse with how you feel and yet my comment is insulting to you. Don't you think repeating your feelings over and over again is not insulting for everyone else especially when needing to skip or ignore your posts.
I have told you to slow down, have you listened? Now you're insulted by my comment. Just because I'm a moderator that means I can't voice as a member?

How long will you continue a discussion repeating the same thing with different words? Come on now...
You could have made your point without the nauseated insult, followed by a threat for a 2 week ban for simply voicing an opinion you don't like, or voicing it as often as it comes up.

I made a decision a long time ago, that I wouldn't bring it up anymore, but I would respond when it came up otherwise. I didn't bring it up that time, either, I was responding to Chanomatik's metaphor and discussion. I was talking about SVX in relation to an off-topic sidebar about the 3000GT, which was an SVX competitor.

I wasn't being inappropriate in the discussion, and it wasn't heated, and I certainly wasn't telling other proponents of the FT-86 that they were making me sick with their opinion, or continued discussion of it.

It isn't as if the thread was moving with big news anyway.

If you want people to tow the line or shut up, just say that. you don't have to be snide and directly insulting about it, saying that someone elses differing opinion makes you sick.

and yes, as a moderator, you have power that other members don't have, so you also have responsibility not to insult people, and portray an extra measure of professionalism in making your points. If you hold others to those rules to not insult and demean each other, you are very much bound by them yourself.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 07-20-2011 at 06:59 PM.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 08:59 PM   #2221
mejifair
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11356
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cottage Grove, MN
Vehicle:
2012 WRX STi Hatch
DGM

Default

Can't we all be friends?

It's just a vehicle brand folks...move along...nothing to see here.

All I want is to have the day where my 2012 STi hatch gets delivered. Until then I check this thread often, and greatly dislike having to wade through off-topic editorials. Oh well.
mejifair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 09:57 PM   #2222
BigElm
Always under your radar!
Moderator
 
Member#: 1568
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hawtlanta!!!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
You could have made your point without the nauseated insult, followed by a threat for a 2 week ban for simply voicing an opinion you don't like, or voicing it as often as it comes up.

I made a decision a long time ago, that I wouldn't bring it up anymore, but I would respond when it came up otherwise. I didn't bring it up that time, either, I was responding to Chanomatik's metaphor and discussion. I was talking about SVX in relation to an off-topic sidebar about the 3000GT, which was an SVX competitor.

I wasn't being inappropriate in the discussion, and it wasn't heated, and I certainly wasn't telling other proponents of the FT-86 that they were making me sick with their opinion, or continued discussion of it.

It isn't as if the thread was moving with big news anyway.

If you want people to tow the line or shut up, just say that. you don't have to be snide and directly insulting about it, saying that someone elses differing opinion makes you sick.

and yes, as a moderator, you have power that other members don't have, so you also have responsibility not to insult people, and portray an extra measure of professionalism in making your points. If you hold others to those rules to not insult and demean each other, you are very much bound by them yourself.
If you felt insulted by my comment, then I apologize. But I only think it's fair you share the same apology to everyone else you have disregarded on this forum.

I believe this thread is about the 2012 Impreza and if there's no big news, it doesn't entitle you to do with it as you please. No one is obligating you to respond to someone else's poke of an AWD coupe or SVX or 3000GT.

You want people to respect you then respect everyone else here.

Now... apologies to everyone else that's had to read through these posts that have nothing to do with this thread.

<See how that works?>
BigElm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 11:05 PM   #2223
SoDealer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67960
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default

I love you Big Elm!
SoDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 11:12 PM   #2224
keepclam
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 120244
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Everett, WA
Vehicle:
2006 Legacy SE Sedan
2006 Pilot EX-L 4WD

Default

Dude, you can't have his Bud Light.
keepclam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2011, 03:58 PM   #2225
Snowphun
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 1800
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Way South Shore MA
Vehicle:
WRX /Cooper S/Miata
awd/fwd/rwd

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mejifair View Post
All I want is to have the day where my 2012 STi hatch gets delivered. Until then I check this thread often, and greatly dislike having to wade through off-topic editorials. Oh well.
You're in the wrong thread, this car has nothing to do with the MY12 STI apart from both being Imprezas.
Snowphun is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2012 Impreza STI concept art khaki_man Member's Car Gallery 37 03-15-2011 02:02 AM
Newsflash: 2012 Impreza looks like BigElm's Butt WagonMonster Off-Topic 4 02-28-2011 07:11 PM
2012 Impreza Concept Zakster87 General Community 14 11-17-2010 04:09 PM
Possibly looking into a 2011 or 2012 Impreza? xenonk Mid Atlantic Impreza Club -- MAIC 1 08-05-2010 09:48 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.