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Old 02-05-2011, 08:32 PM   #1
blckout7
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Default Cams...

Hello, quick question do net you the same gain as the 5 speed?
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Old 02-05-2011, 08:47 PM   #2
NH8991
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The Force is strong with me tonight, i'll try and fill in the blanks....

"Hello, quick question, if you put cams in a car with a 4EAT transmission do net you the same gain as a car with the 5 speed manual?"

Response (with a Yoda voice ):
"Net you the same gains at the engine you will, yeessssss"...

....all things (engines) being equal. But perhaps not at the wheels, no idea how much you'd lose though. Also, lets say the TCU may shift gears at, for example, 6000rpm. You may not hit peak power if the cams put it at a higher rpm e.g. 6200rpm.
I have a 4EAT, and i'm still considering cams in the future.

Last edited by NH8991; 02-05-2011 at 09:01 PM. Reason: Not enough sarcasm. Sorry, i'm British, we have a quota to fill.
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Old 02-05-2011, 08:51 PM   #3
blckout7
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Me 2 it's either cams or forced induction =)
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:14 PM   #4
Subyroo2.5
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I was quoted like 1300 bucks labor for the dealer to swap cams...........a lot.
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:54 PM   #5
blckout7
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That seems about right wish I could find a member to do it for cheap =)
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Old 02-07-2011, 05:59 AM   #6
flightwatch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subyroo2.5 View Post
I was quoted like 1300 bucks labor for the dealer to swap cams...........a lot.
Or you could do it yourself for free...and learn about your car in the process.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:22 AM   #7
blckout7
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I wish lol too bad it's my dd and I can't really make it more then 2 days of downtime. I would like to learn though never a bad thing, but I think this is a difficult install..
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Old 02-07-2011, 03:36 PM   #8
flightwatch
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Mine is a daily driver, and it took me less than 2 days. It's not as difficult as you might think. Just make sure that you have the right tools and parts before you begin. Go slow and take your time. Get a friend or 2 to help tear the car apart and put it back together to save time.
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Old 02-07-2011, 03:48 PM   #9
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I appreciate your motivation, maybe I can find some willing nasioc members haha.
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:31 PM   #10
Bluefoton
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I've only seen positive reviews on cams. One of the main mods my mechanic (rally driver) suggested. Nevertheless what ticked me off is that given I would have to outsource all the labour (no garage), it gets expensive. Even subsequent lash adjustments - some did it three times - is a good 200+ $ per job.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:17 PM   #11
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I'm just concerned I won't see the same gains with the 4eat
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blckout7 View Post
Me 2 it's either cams or forced induction =)
These are VERY different things.

The gains between the 5sp and auto are the same. The engine changes exactly the same. I'm not even sure why you're even bringing the transmission into this.

As for cams, realize that even the sport cams are still very mild cams from a broad point of view in relation to real race cams. Also realize that NA motors only make hp through rpm meaning you want to move that torque band as high as possible to keep moderate torque up higher to create hp. The downside is the engine becomes more peaky and will have less grunt when putzing around, forcing you to rev out the engine more. Paired to an automatic with preset shift points geared for the stock powerband, it gets a little messy. I assume the transmission could be remapped for the new power band and work very well, but I don't know what's involved for that.

If you have cash, I will suggest forced induction or large displacement NA. I would set aside a good $5000 to spend for any route where you actually want to make serious power. It won't really take $5000, but there's wiggle room there to make sure everything gets done.

As for sticking with the 2.5L NA motor, you simply won't make a lot more power. You can improve the power band and raise overall power some, but you can't really build a beast of an engine without drastically changing the design of the engine and that costs money, enough to step to other, more powerful options.
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:57 AM   #13
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Thank you I appreciate the honest wisdom, time to save! Perhaps for a new wrx, saw one on the road today....I must say it was gorgeous!
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:09 AM   #14
gunr
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Default Colt Cams

I run a marine repair shop in Victoria BC Canada and I have been in contact with Geoff from Colt Cams in Vancouver BC. He has a grind that will seriouly wake the 2.5 na SOHC engines without requiring new valve springs and such. He is sending me the specs tomorrow and I can repost them then. He has proposed a group buy for these cams at $325 shipped anywhere in North America.

I have used Geoff's services in my shop for many many years and have always been more than happy with the quality of work and the power produced. Geoff builds me up conventional and revese rotation camshafts for off-shore boats, did the monster cam for my tow rig, and even a cam for a Suzuki Jeep (that thing went from an enemic little 1600, to feeling like it had a tire burning V6).

If anyone is interested, Goeff will need your cams as the core, it gets regound and returned to you. You are getting the same genuine Subaru metal you sent in. Not a cheap chinese blend of metals. I speak from experience as this is a better way to go.

Email me for more info
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:26 AM   #15
The G.O.A.T.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunr View Post

If anyone is interested, Goeff will need your cams as the core, it gets regound and returned to you. You are getting the same genuine Subaru metal you sent in. Not a cheap chinese blend of metals. I speak from experience as this is a better way to go.

Email me for more info
you wouldn't happen to be on WSC would you?
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:55 AM   #16
Bluefoton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunr View Post
I run a marine repair shop in Victoria BC Canada and I have been in contact with Geoff from Colt Cams in Vancouver BC. He has a grind that will seriouly wake the 2.5 na SOHC engines without requiring new valve springs and such. He is sending me the specs tomorrow and I can repost them then. He has proposed a group buy for these cams at $325 shipped anywhere in North America.

I have used Geoff's services in my shop for many many years and have always been more than happy with the quality of work and the power produced. Geoff builds me up conventional and revese rotation camshafts for off-shore boats, did the monster cam for my tow rig, and even a cam for a Suzuki Jeep (that thing went from an enemic little 1600, to feeling like it had a tire burning V6).

Email me for more info


Marine shop, eh? I know their torque is optimized towards 1000rpm, but how do you suggest I fit cams from THAT onto my SOHC?

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Old 02-08-2011, 01:41 PM   #17
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I was looking into colt cams at one point in time. Not sure if their "tri-flow" technology is a gimmick or not even though it seems very plausible. Kinda on the fence between delta and colt.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:43 PM   #18
renyo
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Don't SOHC EJ series actuate both intake valves with the same lobe? I'm not sure how tri-flow would work like that.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:52 PM   #19
gunr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The G.O.A.T. View Post
you wouldn't happen to be on WSC would you?
Nope, not me.

Just build a lot engines with Geoff's cams, and have lots of happy customers. They perform as promised.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:02 PM   #20
PlummRS
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check out Delta Cams...
you can have a Port 'n Polish done on the heads and get a cam grind for pretty cheap, heads are about a 4-6 week turn around.. and if you find a set of 'donor heads' there is virtually no down time on the DDness of your car... plus doing cams AND heads nets way more than cams alone...

oh ya.. then TUNE that mutha
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:11 PM   #21
williaty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renyo View Post
Don't SOHC EJ series actuate both intake valves with the same lobe? I'm not sure how tri-flow would work like that.
The pre-AVLS engines actuate two valves off of one lobe. There'd be no way to lift them differently.
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Old 02-09-2011, 07:06 AM   #22
renyo
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Originally Posted by williaty View Post
The pre-AVLS engines actuate two valves off of one lobe. There'd be no way to lift them differently.
Right... forgot about those.

<old>Damn new fangled contraptions. </old>
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:46 AM   #23
KaptainKandy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blckout7 View Post
Hello, quick question do net you the same gain as the 5 speed?
Define "gains". With an automatic you will have higher drivetrain loss than a manual transmission.
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:54 PM   #24
blckout7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptainKandy

Define "gains". With an automatic you will have higher drivetrain loss than a manual transmission.
I know that, but will that Increased drivetain loss, overall not allow you to utilize that extra hp opposed to a manual?
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:54 PM   #25
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Your 4EAT will essentially not reflect the minute gains (overall) you will see from cams and tuning. Ill tell you this if you have a 4EAT and you are even slightly think about getting a WRX just save your money for that WRX you looking at $1K total that $1K towards your payoff (if financed) or the down payment on top of trade.

You got your exhaust done so the bug has bitten but if you put cams in there you won't be anymore satisfied (time wise).
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