Read this and tell me what you think

[christoph1371]

xxxxxxx wrote on 07-10-2002 02:53 PM:
i am starting a wrx into 1995 L swap very soon. It will be done by SXPi in san diego. do you have any words of advice. They are very knowledgable, but i know you have done this numerous times, so any words of adivce would be appreciated.

christoph1371 wrote on 07-10-2002 03:38 PM:

xxx,

I am sure you are well aware that I do have my own Company I-Speed USA (i-speedusa.com). These conversions are one way we earn a living. Because, you are paying someone else to do the work and not us, we cannot and will not offer much advice.

Perhaps, I can save you some money: Unless you are moving from 4EAT to Man or your tranny is already toast, You do not need to install the tranny at all.

I am sure you understand. I hope the install goes smooth and the work is clean.

Regards,

Chris

[quote]
xxxxxxx wrote on 07-11-2002 11:43 AM:
thats kind of bs dude. i understand you make a living, but i've talked to countless other people and none have any problem giving me any advice. but do as you wish.
[quote]


xxx,

It seems you fail to completely understand our situation. Why are we supposed assist someone else who is getting a paycheck when we are not? We are the ones responsible for buying manuals, studying them, investing in motors from the scrap yards, spending hours upon hours going through several different wiring harnesses, ripping apart completely new engines, spending countless hours up late on weeknights and who know how many weekends ...all in the name of our conversion success. You have the audacity to say that it's BS that we are not helping you?
FYI, all the help we have given people is readily available on our website and in countless threads on I-club. I think you need to re-evaluate your opinion on how much we have actually helped a lot of people out with conversions in general.
Perhaps it would be in your best interest to do more research before you start making more conclusions about us.

Regards,

Chris
i-speedusa.com

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

[darmom]

sounds like you're in the right here. One option would be for him to pay you a little consulting fee. There's no reason you should help your competition. If he's not comfortable with their competence, he shouldn't have them do the work.

[StankFootZ]

That's a tough call to make either way. It's kinda dumb for him to ask you for help if his installers are so knowledgable, and you shouldn't have to give away your information either. At the same time, he isn't really demanding any info. You could have said something like "that wiring harness is tricky, make sure to double check the connections" or something simple like that and just wrote him off. Or you could have been really slimey and tried to steal away his business from that other company. But I don't think that's your style.

[White4drWRX]

show him this... :monkey: :monkey: :monkey: ...

since he's not being very friendly... and saying this is BS...

and dont' give him any advise...

[boka]

Chris, I think you are right on. I would have said the same thing. The fact that he's paying someone else as well, makes it even worse. I'd understand if he was doing the work himself, but paying another company and asking for advice for that company is ignorant

BTW, I think the 'consulting fee' I paid for help installing my springs was fair and money well spent

[Bigmike]

I agree, Chris you are in the right. You have developed a process for transplating the engines that you are making $ on...the $ is in the work you do not the parts. Giving away advice to a non-customer is giving away $.

Giving advice would be like the winning race team telling a competitor how to setup their car to beat them.

[ldivinag]

f 'em.

just my 3 cents (adjusted for inflation)...

[iBlueVirus]

hey Chris, A local shop here is going to swap the engine for me. Can you help me out a little? j/k

damn, unless it's a close friend. not helping him is right. Just like people asking me to help them with stupid computers. No money no talk! unless I know the person... So who is this xxx?

[christoph1371]

I know I can be a prick, but xxx will remain xxx until he/she chooses to say anything.
I am not trying to bust anyone's sack. I just need to vent off to you all about some of the morons I deal with. I also want to ensure that, how I deal with them, is appropriate and not too demeaning.

[Impala SS AutoXer]

Hey, just start feeding them information.....WRONG information

[sybir]

you've been *way* more than generous with help and advice for everybody here, man; you open your garage to us, you help n00bs with everything under the sun at installfests, and you're totally justified to keep the massive amount of work you've done proprietary; it takes a complete idiot to say, "hey, i know you've put ina ton of work and effort, can you give it away to this other shop so they can do it too?"


anyways, there's only one place I'm going when the engine blows on my wagon,and I'm sure everybody else here feels the same....

[jim-bob]

chris - you have no responsibility to that guy. i think next time your best bet might just be to not respond, though.

the only problem is that i-club sometimes develops that witch-hunt mentality, where if a vendor doesn't bend over backwards to do whatever the hell you ask of him, he's a bad bad man. but i assume most people can see through that sort of thing..

yeah, i dunno.

-erik.

[Concillian]

It's a tough call, but I think you are correct in your responses.

While a part of i-club is about enthusiasts sharing information, some information could be considered intellectual property. I believe this to be the case in your situation. It's not special what you do, anyone could wire it up, IF they knew how to. As such it is important for you to protect your IP.

Sharing most things, like how to install springs, is different in that so many people know how, and it's not even that tough to figure out. So that kind of knowledge is in the public domain.

I have seen vendors not share information that deserved to be shared. Like when someone PM'd me about the WRX brake upgrade for an RS. He had called a vendor who was offering a similar upgrade as a package, but he already had the rotors and just wanted the brackets. The vendor would not sell the brackets separately and refused to tell him the part number for the brackets. Outrageous that he would do so, because that vendor almost certainly did not figure out the info on his own, North Ursalia had a page up for over a year detailing the upgrade before that vendor even started offering the kits, and such an upgrade is discussed almost monthly in the suspension/brakes/tires forum. They probably got the info here, then refuse to share the info with other customers. THAT is when people should be flying off the handle about vendors not sharing info. Not when they will lose much of their ability to make money when they share info.

Anyway, I gave that guy the part numbers he needed, and pointed him to the install instructions at www.northursalia.com and he (nor I) will ever deal with that vendor.

[eastbaysubaru]

Concillian, well put. I don't have much to add, I think you touched on all of it. Chris, I think all of us here will agree you did what you had to do. If you want this to be a business then you need to keep your trade secrets secret. That is all.

-Brian

[BigDonut]

I personally think it's okay for him to ask for info. That show he loves his car and want to make sure everything go smooth. And you have your right to not telling him anything. Everything should end right there and he should've just said "thanks anyway" and forget about it. He calling your reply is BS is just.....BS

Just my 4 cents

[deepbeep]

I think...





you should tell us how the JDM uppipes are doing!


Then again, you're also right to protect your interests. Seems like a standard intellectual property issue to me. You invest the time and money to research and experiment, therefore it's your choice to divulge that info or not.

[HongKongBeef]

You shoulda given him some advice.. u shoulda told him to move to the bay!

[EddyRS]

Chris,

Having an personal insight as to the complexity of these installs, as well as, also being constantly asked how the conversion is done, I feel you handled yourself professionally.

I also know how much of a buisness man you are, and those who know you realize such info is important to you.

This is what I tell everyone who asks how the conversion was done......by telling them to go buy the manuals and study them. I did such and am glad for it. But hey, people are lazy.

We believe in you.

Cheers

EddyL.

[MPREZYA]

Chris SXPi is an offshoot of a Subaru dealer so I don't think they would have too much of a problem.
Also I find it sort of funny he ask that when they are. Oh well I wouldn't blame you Chris though I would give him generalized stuff like you did with the tranny stuff and anything more than a simple answer you charge for.

[KAuss]

The customer is always right!!!!

but since he isn't a customer of yours, guess what... hahaha

Well, you prolly would of gotten a GF or something if you helped him out chris, you never know!! haha..

Well, truthfully, a drive from SD isn't really easy to plan out, so maybe he wants to do the install real bad, but might not have the time. Still he messed up big time since you didn't owe him anything to begin with.

I wanna put a 2.5 RS engine in my WRX lol, maybe you can get me started on that one...

[98kPa]

You should give him advice. I help random folks all the time with their computer problems and I don't charge them. And yet, its what I do for a living. Generosity has a way of getting one's self a reputation of something other than "I know I can be a prick". Generosity is also contageous. "I know I can be a prick" doesn't generate relationships like generosity does. As a businessman, I would figure relationships are important to you. Relationships generate business. And since its money that's the issue, relationships will generate more money than a any amount of free advice will lose. Obviously, its not convenient for him to travel the 500 miles for you to work on his car. But through your generosity, he might further spread your name, and in a good light at that. Now there's probably (yet another?) group of people saying "Wow that I-Speed place is full of 'pricks' ".

jason

[Kostamojen]

Originally posted by EddyRS
Chris,

Having an personal insight as to the complexity of these installs, as well as, also being constantly asked how the conversion is done, I feel you handled yourself professionally.

I also know how much of a buisness man you are, and those who know you realize such info is important to you.

This is what I tell everyone who asks how the conversion was done......by telling them to go buy the manuals and study them. I did such and am glad for it. But hey, people are lazy.

We believe in you.

Cheers

EddyL.

Still have your old engine sitting in your garage?

[christoph1371]

98kpa,
People see me as a prick because I tell them how it is and they don't like it. I'll admit that perhaps my personality may prohibit my business ventures. However, I am more than certain 99% of succesful business people are pricks in one way or another. It is the nature of the beast...business tactics.

My generosity has limits as does yours and everyone elses. I open my house, my garage, my tools, and my time to help out loads of enthusiasts. I lose sleep, lose tools, lose any free time that can ever be available and at moments loose my mind. I have gone way above the call of sube duty for my brothers.

It just upsets me that the individual who pmed me had emailed on several occasions for information, which I gave. He told me how he wanted to ship the car here, to me, to have the work done. Now, it seems he has changed his mind. OK. But then to tell me that he still wants info!? Sorry, my generosity STOPS there.

Kosto- yes I have the engine still there

[suby_dude]

everybody has a right to ask.... and every vendor has the right to deny service or information/trade secrets.

chris basically said:

"...i know how to do it... but i'm not telling you..." (i'm obviously paraphrasing here)

i think that really set that guy off.

i bet in the customer's noggin' ... he pictures chris saying:

"...na na na na na na.... i'm not gonna tell you... na na na na na na"

obviously... telling someone that they are 'BS' is NOT gonna get him very far (as it didn't in this case).

as i've said before when it comes to vendors/customer drama...

its really how you approach the vendor... it wouldn't hurt if you're just a ta'ad bit nice cuz i'm sure that will get you a hell of a lot further than being a prick like that guy.

my conculusion:



:monkey: ... das rite... that guy (not chris) gets the MONKEY!

sd

http://www.subydude.com

[98kPa]

Originally posted by christoph1371
People see me as a prick because I tell them how it is and they don't like it. I'll admit that perhaps my personality may prohibit my business ventures. However, I am more than certain 99% of succesful business people are pricks in one way or another. It is the nature of the beast...business tactics.

This assumption requires the preclusion that being a prick for money is acceptable. We probably differ in our worldview at this point

It just upsets me that the individual who pmed me had emailed on several occasions for information, which I gave. He told me how he wanted to ship the car here, to me, to have the work done. Now, it seems he has changed his mind. OK. But then to tell me that he still wants info!? Sorry, my generosity STOPS there.

That's info we didn't have before and it makes your initial response, IMHO, more appropriate. There's generosity to people in need, and then there are those lazy moochers who aren't really benefited by our help.

jason