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Old 03-09-2011, 12:42 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
So they intend to use the heavy ass stock seats instead of a lightweight fiberglass? 1800# is a distant memory.
Where is this?
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:44 PM   #252
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I like the xavier design. Very Tesla-ish.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:50 PM   #253
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I like the xavier design. Very Tesla-ish.
I agree, that one is definitely my favorite. It also uses the hawkeye headlights which is a plus.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:56 PM   #254
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Quote:
I like that one. Pretty much a shrunken Porsche 918.

Maybe they could update the Puma GT Convertible as a topless mid-engined (rather than rear-VW-engined) roadster. This is someone else's impression..

updated from this original:
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:34 PM   #255
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Last edited by Rapid_Roo; 03-10-2011 at 01:38 PM. Reason: added one more picture
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:38 PM   #256
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bingo. I like the idea of designing it with the possible future of a spec class in mind. Cost effective drivetrain coupled with easily-repairable tube frame = win!
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:43 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Beaverboy View Post
Where is this?
That's my interpretation of this:

Quote:
In terms of what we will use from the Subaru, the goal is everything possible that doesn't compromise the design goal. We won't utilize the unibody but at this point every other piece is fair game. (ok, probably not the headliner either)

Jim Schenc
YMMV.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:44 PM   #258
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Going with the whole Toyota/Subaru Partnership I'd love to see a return of the Toyota World Sports Racer with Boxer power.





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Old 03-10-2011, 12:58 AM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
That's my interpretation of this:
Quote:
In terms of what we will use from the Subaru, the goal is everything possible that doesn't compromise the design goal. We won't utilize the unibody but at this point every other piece is fair game. (ok, probably not the headliner either)
YMMV.
I'd say that the part about not compromising the design goal means that very little is set in stone. If they design to use stock WRX seats, I don't see why that would prevent anyone from substituting some other seat.

Last edited by Evan; 03-10-2011 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:30 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Evan View Post
I'd say that the part about not compromising the design goal means that very little is set in stone. If they design to use stock WRX seats, I don't see why that would prevent anyone from substituting some other seat.
Absolutely, though aftermarket seats aren't free like the ones out of the donor car so things like this put pressure on the $15k price point. I also wouldn't want to use the massive steering wheel in such a small car.
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:42 PM   #261
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718RSK, or Porsche 908 can-am style cars might make a nice basis for a spec racing class.

It seems like the FFR 818 (the engineering code name for the project, which is being used as an interim name until they figure out what to call this car, according to Factory Five Forums) is going to be more of a street-legal race car and adult-sized non-open-wheel enclosed go-kart, than a traditional close-able convertible.
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:25 AM   #262
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K, progress. What do you think?



Last edited by Timmysubie; 03-12-2011 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 03-12-2011, 02:24 AM   #263
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It is looking very nice.

Red carpet ready, even.
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Old 03-12-2011, 07:51 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Timmysubie View Post
K, progress. What do you think?
Part of the benefit of using a flat engine is the much lower height requirement, but the back of your design is as tall as cars that use inline engines (MR2, Elise...). I imagine the space isn't needed and a lower design could be very interesting.

I wonder where they are going to put the intercooler? Off to one side would be ideal but not with the wide engine.
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:38 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
I wonder where they are going to put the intercooler? Off to one side would be ideal but not with the wide engine.
Because $10K is the target for the cost of the kit, I'm willing to be that the intercooler will be in the stock location. A duct in the fiberglass is virtually no cost if designed from the start.
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Old 03-12-2011, 01:00 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
Part of the benefit of using a flat engine is the much lower height requirement, but the back of your design is as tall as cars that use inline engines (MR2, Elise...). I imagine the space isn't needed and a lower design could be very interesting.

I wonder where they are going to put the intercooler? Off to one side would be ideal but not with the wide engine.
ahhhh, but you have not seen a rear view yet!
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Old 03-12-2011, 08:18 PM   #267
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Considering that intercooling plumbing is not the hardest thing to make (plethora of aftermarket products), I would hope they can justify putting the I/C somewhere other than on top of the engine...
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Old 03-12-2011, 10:02 PM   #268
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Ferrari 288GTO and F40 both used up-flow Top-mount intercoolers.



Pulling air up from the bottom of the car, and out through the engine cover lid, into the low pressure zone behind the car is not a bad idea. It also works the same direction as thermal air currents, with heated air rising.

Reverse of the flow direction of a normal Subaru intercooler, but pretty close to the same location.

I have long wanted to build a mid-engined car with an EG33 with twin turbos, and twin intercoolers, and maybe a merged external waste gate, much like the 288GTO's engine bay layout. The EG's intake manifold and throttle body layout is pretty much ready made for it, if the intercooler system replaced the stock plastic intake tube.


That would look hot with a clean intake manifold, ceramic coated silver, with a red painted plastic cover in the center (shown black there), and red crinkle powder-coated valve covers.
With the raised stripes painted red on the silver manifold, and painted silver on the red center cover and valve covers.

Unfortunately, according to FFR, this project is not likely to accommodate an H6's engine length between the firewall and the rear axle line.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 03-12-2011 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:28 PM   #269
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although they want something a little more simple and I'll now be going in a different direction. I just had to take the top off of her.

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Old 03-14-2011, 12:45 PM   #270
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That is nice looking, though.

Good concept for a successor to the MR2 or Fiat X1-9 sort of vehicle. I wish there were at least one production car on the market like that now, and Subie flat 4 power with a longitudinal driveline makes a LOT of sense for it.

I have noticed from the FFR forum that they are looking for something much more simplistic, and it has kind of turned me a bit off of the project for now, as I don't have much opportunity to go to a track, and it is shaping up to be less and less of a versatile road car with even removable weather protection.

I'd rather have a motorcycle at that point, frankly. I already have a motorcycle. I someday want a BMW boxer motorcycle. (love those boxer engines!)

But I do hope they succeed with what they are going for, and it will be interesting to watch from that perspective.
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:22 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
That is nice looking, though.

Good concept for a successor to the MR2 or Fiat X1-9 sort of vehicle. I wish there were at least one production car on the market like that now, and Subie flat 4 power with a longitudinal driveline makes a LOT of sense for it.

I have noticed from the FFR forum that they are looking for something much more simplistic, and it has kind of turned me a bit off of the project for now, as I don't have much opportunity to go to a track, and it is shaping up to be less and less of a versatile road car with even removable weather protection.

I'd rather have a motorcycle at that point, frankly. I already have a motorcycle. I someday want a BMW boxer motorcycle. (love those boxer engines!)

But I do hope they succeed with what they are going for, and it will be interesting to watch from that perspective.
I completely agree, I ride myself and If I were to buy one of the kits I would want to be able to use it like a car and not a "track day only" vehicle. I also am more excited than discouraged. I already started on a more simple open wheel design.
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Old 03-14-2011, 02:37 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
Ferrari 288GTO and F40 both used up-flow Top-mount intercoolers.

Pulling air up from the bottom of the car, and out through the engine cover lid, into the low pressure zone behind the car is not a bad idea. It also works the same direction as thermal air currents, with heated air rising.

The EG's intake manifold and throttle body layout is pretty much ready made for it, if the intercooler system replaced the stock plastic intake tube.
Yeah, I just meant not "right on top" of the engine due to heat soak. I wasn't expressing concern for the height of the car but more the idea that it could be off to one side just like other mid-engine cars, perhaps just in front of one of the rear wheels to pick up air from a scoop somewhere on the flank of the car.

I too would love a twin-turbo'd flat six. Had been considering an EZ30R, but I didn't realize the manifold and throttle body layout on the EG33 was so appropriate. Aren't the EG33 engine iron block with aluminum heads? Did subaru make an OEM forged crank for them? I assume the EG33 manifold has different port spacing and could not be bolted up to an EZ30R head? I understand the EG33 is somewhat heavier and bulkier than the EZ30R. You could always fab the intake manifold if FFR would at least retain clearance for that smaller engine. I believe the difference is only 0.75"...
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Old 03-14-2011, 03:09 PM   #273
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FYI: For those that get Speed Channel, on 3/17 at 10pm (probably eastern time) there's a new show called Speedmakers premiering.

The 1st episode (Megakits) will be showcasing Factory Five and the people that have built FF cars.

Set your DVR.

--kC
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Old 03-14-2011, 06:34 PM   #274
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Yeah, I just meant not "right on top" of the engine due to heat soak. I wasn't expressing concern for the height of the car but more the idea that it could be off to one side just like other mid-engine cars, perhaps just in front of one of the rear wheels to pick up air from a scoop somewhere on the flank of the car.

I too would love a twin-turbo'd flat six. Had been considering an EZ30R, but I didn't realize the manifold and throttle body layout on the EG33 was so appropriate. Aren't the EG33 engine iron block with aluminum heads? Did subaru make an OEM forged crank for them? I assume the EG33 manifold has different port spacing and could not be bolted up to an EZ30R head? I understand the EG33 is somewhat heavier and bulkier than the EZ30R. You could always fab the intake manifold if FFR would at least retain clearance for that smaller engine. I believe the difference is only 0.75"...
As far as I know the EG33 is aluminum, just like the EJ engines. It is essentially 150% of an EJ22, with natural aspiration and dual overhead cams.

It has the same cylinder pitch, so it is a longer, heavier engine. According to an aircraft site that I found (small planes sometimes use Subaru boxers, also), the block weights of the EJ22 compared to the EG33:
Quote:
EJ22 long block, no accessories or intake manifold- 188 lbs.
EG33 long block, no accessories or intake manifold- 255 lbs.
Note, EJ22 is almost exactly 74% of the EG's weight, more than the 67% that one would think for being a third fewer cylinders. An EZ30R's engine dry weight is listed at about 240lbs, not that much less than an EG33.

The EZ series is not a direct dimensional comparison the EJ, and the cylinder pitch is smaller (the cylinder centers are closer together) which makes the engine more compact, length-wise.

The EZ is a fine engine. The EG is a bit simpler, and only has OBD1 ECU software, without CANBUS. Probably a bit easier to incorporate into a kit car. With a newer EZ ECU, more of the donor Subaru's systems would have to be kept, like the security key system, and probably other body and chassis sensors and such, to keep the ECU happy.

The EG's block may be bulkier and heavier, but it is also very robust, and closely related to the EJ22 turbo, and is probably more suited for turbo use than the thinner-walled EZ.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 03-14-2011 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:48 AM   #275
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Just wanted to post a pic of my second design. I'm Not done yet, need to smooth a few things out, but it's pretty much there. Let me know what you think.

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