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Old 05-21-2011, 06:26 PM   #326
Hiryu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewb View Post
No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

It's either oldthink, groupthink, or both. All of these have a 1990s or older played-out look. Probably needed to bring in artists rather than engineers for the mock-ups. Original thinking required.
Ouch. Oh well. Everybody's got one.
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:12 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewb View Post
No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

It's either oldthink, groupthink, or both. All of these have a 1990s or older played-out look. Probably needed to bring in artists rather than engineers for the mock-ups. Original thinking required.
I will agree with you on all except the first one. So far that's the only one I would even consider buying, the rest of them are way too over the top. This is a $15k kit car, not a supercar. This might look good in airbrushed render form, but in real life it will just be chintzy. Most of these designs look like they started life as a 458 Italia or Porsche 918 and were then massaged and rearranged just enough to call it a different car. I agree they should just hire a company to design the thing instead of letting Joe Schmoe whip something up in MS Paint and call it a day. But then that would cost money, and this way they might end up with something decent without having to pay full value for it.

Last edited by spaceywilly; 05-21-2011 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:48 AM   #328
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How many actually looks through the gallery? They have quite a variety there.
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:12 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewb View Post
No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

It's either oldthink, groupthink, or both. All of these have a 1990s or older played-out look. Probably needed to bring in artists rather than engineers for the mock-ups. Original thinking required.
Since half of those are my concepts, I'll comment back. Care to offer your submissions up for criticism? This is a 15k car from a donor wrx, there are constraints as far as materials and production methods. When you come up with something that isn't derivative or is completely original that looks good, and can be made for 15k post it up and let people comment on it. Im not saying that you can't do this, for all I know you could have submitted a design that is amazing and could win, but until I know what you mean visually by being original thinking under the conditions, maybe better criticism would be no criticism on your part.
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:21 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewb View Post
No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

It's either oldthink, groupthink, or both. All of these have a 1990s or older played-out look. Probably needed to bring in artists rather than engineers for the mock-ups. Original thinking required.
Wow, tremendous contribution. Thank you for the insight, suggestions, etc.
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Old 05-23-2011, 04:28 AM   #331
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And now, back our regularly scheduled program...

My first concept. Each version adheres to the full 818 template spec, including the higher driver position:




Last edited by Hiryu; 05-23-2011 at 01:14 PM. Reason: forgot to add the video
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Old 05-23-2011, 04:49 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
Wow, tremendous contribution. Thank you for the insight, suggestions, etc.
I get what you mean (NASIOC), but I see the lighter side of what he is saying. I would have to see these beyond concept, but I don't get the same erection as when I see a MK3.


I think whatever is settled on I will like as long as its doesn't look like a Del Sol---if so, count me out.

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Old 05-23-2011, 08:48 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by hondahata View Post
I get what you mean (NASIOC), but I see the lighter side of what he is saying. I would have to see these beyond concept, but I don't get the same erection as when I see a MK3.


I think whatever is settled on I will like as long as its doesn't look like a Del Sol---if so, count me out.
I know, point is, those are renderings that have taken people a lot of time and effort to create. Pretty low-brow to just sit back and type "no" to all of them like that without bothering to take the time to offer constructive comments. Ah, whatever, this is the internet.

Anyway, I really like the one jbones posted. Certainly clean enough to not turn me off to the car, which is all I really want. Keep it simple.
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:05 AM   #334
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well, gee, as long as we're starting from zero, I guess the Saker car that was linked in page 3 of this thread is probably closest to what I'd like to see FFR's car look and behave like:



I mean this is pretty much it, isn't it? A sub-2000-lb mid-engined track toy based on a WRX engine? Obviously the Saker is to a significantly higher spec, with bits like Moton remote-reservoir racing shocks and Motec ECU, but these are options an individual owner could pursue.

And from an ascetics standpoint, I don't see much wrong with this car, although it's not-horrible-overstated curves may be impossible on FFR's shorter intended wheelbase (the Saker is 101"). Cars like the Elise have always bothered me because they look like they were trying to squash too much car into the available space. The a/c cobra's and this Maserati A6GCS certainly balance this better while managing to be truly tiny, but they are front-engined cars. A better starting point might be early mid-engined "GT" race cars from the 60's (can't think of an ideal example right now).



Frank

Last edited by Frank A; 05-23-2011 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:33 AM   #335
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well, gee, as long as we're starting from zero, I guess the Saker car that was linked in page 3 of this thread is probably closest to what I'd like to see FFR's car look and behave like:

I mean this is pretty much it, isn't it? A sub-2000-lb mid-engined track toy based on a WRX engine?
1984 called...

IMHO, this will be a road-car first, rather than an all-out track toy. So the body will be much more streetable sports car than all-out, center-seat wedge.
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:40 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by Porter View Post
Any new news?

I saw this buried on the site, another decent wk4 entry.

This is VERY similar to that design. AWD with 'busa v8.
http://www.dpcars.net/dp1/index.htm

Quote:
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Another one of my submissions

My favorite.
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:50 AM   #337
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what, not a fan of can-am bodies? Virtually every major manufacturer has made a car of this shape at some time or another. Here's a 1973 Ferrari:



yeah, don't really need a road car unless it'll make a good dd too. base wrx is already more than fast enough for the street. but I'm sure they'll sell more targeting the street market. not really their fault but not what I want. Would prefer a street-legal track toy.

Last edited by Frank A; 05-23-2011 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:00 PM   #338
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what, not a fan of can-am bodies? Virtually every major manufacturer has made a car of this shape at some time or another. Here's a 1973 Ferrari:
I'm a fan of them on period-correct cars. I have no objections to a modern version of that style body, but the Saker you posted is not one of them. Much much too dated IMHO, it will hurt sales.

That topless Elise body posted earlier, for example, is more what I'd be pulling for.
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:36 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Timmysubie View Post
Since half of those are my concepts, I'll comment back. Care to offer your submissions up for criticism? This is a 15k car from a donor wrx, there are constraints as far as materials and production methods. When you come up with something that isn't derivative or is completely original that looks good, and can be made for 15k post it up and let people comment on it. Im not saying that you can't do this, for all I know you could have submitted a design that is amazing and could win, but until I know what you mean visually by being original thinking under the conditions, maybe better criticism would be no criticism on your part.
I'm an engineer, not an artist, which is exactly why I can recognize the failure of imagination that people with no artistic ability usually bring to aesthetics, as witnessed in the pics above. See it all the time--engineers/non-artists who think that they have artistic capability. Thus I would not want to subject anyone to the horrors that to my mind are attractive, but to a creative human mind would look like yesterday's tired old ideas. In short, the pics I see above look like something I would dream up to fit that chassis, and since I draw what passes for inspiration from my past, from my perspective the pics posted above demonstrate an innate lack of originality. This is definitely one of those scenarios in which, based on what has been shown so far in this thread, the talentless should step aside and encourage creative, talented people to make an effort.

Additionally, the limitations imposed by the chassis and the bargain price of the proposed product do not necessitate that each submission look as if it is a throwback to the 1990s.

Quote:
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Wow, tremendous contribution. Thank you for the insight, suggestions, etc.
Of course.
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:40 PM   #340
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Old 05-23-2011, 03:51 PM   #341
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Replica Stratos Body > all
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Old 05-23-2011, 03:53 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
I know, point is, those are renderings that have taken people a lot of time and effort to create.
Effort and time spent do not guarantee success, which is why I did not waste time trying to come up with something that I know would be horrible in hopes of receiving polite praise and adulation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
Pretty low-brow to just sit back and type "no" to all of them like that without bothering to take the time to offer constructive comments.
The comments were at the bottom of my post and identified the issue common to all the pics. There was no point in typing the same thing six times consecutively. Also, I'm sure someone can look up "low-brow" for you.
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Old 05-23-2011, 04:13 PM   #343
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Replica Stratos Body > all

If this is what FFR picks, I'll buy 2 of them
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:18 PM   #344
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I'm an engineer, not an artist
really? you were dropping those design buzzwords so skillfully i'd never have guessed. while i can appreciate your insistence that anyone who can't out-imagine you is devoid of artistic ability, i'd consider one major thing - the people who are submitting designs are, by and large, submitting what they want to drive, not the most off-the-wall creative thing they can dream up. maybe they want to drive old designs because they like the way they look (how many "omg stratos" comments have we seen here?). Although Factory Five wants to bring in new, younger customers, i have a feeling a large portion of their customer base likes those kinds of designs as well. maybe i'm completely wrong and the winning design will look like the Batman Tumbler.

it's a fun contest for car enthusiasts to participate in. i think the results are acceptable considering that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stewb View Post
the talentless should step aside and encourage creative, talented people to make an effort.
i doubt creative, talented people have time for a meager $5000. too busy designing retro-modern lanica stratos', or the 68th variant of the 911. i wouldn't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stewb View Post
Additionally, the limitations imposed by the chassis and the bargain price of the proposed product do not necessitate that each submission look as if it is a throwback to the 1990s.
mmmmm, the 90's. so many beautiful cars.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:46 PM   #345
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Patience while I state the obvious, but I think stewb's failure was in the delivery, not the message. To just post a string of "no"s followed by a one-liner of a criticism is certainly uncalled for and an insult to the creators of the designs that have posted them here for constructive feedback. The very real fear here is that FFR will create a "kit car" like so many other ascetically failed niche vehicles over the years. There isn't even room to name the failures, and even major corporations with near-infinite resources are not immune from making ugly cars.

buuuut, a genuinely original car that knocks everyone's socks off and has the staying power of an a/c cobra is pretty tall order that stewb is entirely off-base to expect. The best and largest design operations in the world can't predictably create a winner on demand.

I think the value of posts like the link to the Stratos recreation is 1) to remind designers of the forms that can work well on the layout and set of dimensions, and 2) remind everyone that, "if you can't come up with something original, at least make a good-looking copy of something great." This was the advice of one of Frank Lloyd Wright's students at a show about his own architecture and his response to the assumed criticism that his work could be called derivative of Wright's.

Frank
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:48 PM   #346
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..i'd consider one major thing - the people who are submitting designs are, by and large, submitting what they want to drive, not the most off-the-wall creative thing they can dream up. maybe they want to drive old designs because they like the way they look (how many "omg stratos" comments have we seen here?).
Yes, the mock-ups represent designs with which people are familiar--"old designs," as you indicated.
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it's a fun contest for car enthusiasts to participate in. i think the results are acceptable considering that.
Agreed. They have successfully rehashed "old designs" with "acceptable" results.
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i doubt creative, talented people have time for a meager $5000. too busy designing retro-modern lanica stratos', or the 68th variant of the 911. i wouldn't know.
What ever happened to the starving artist?
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:04 PM   #347
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Patience while I state the obvious, but I think stewb's failure was in the delivery, not the message. To just post a string of "no"s followed by a one-liner of a criticism is certainly uncalled for and an insult to the creators of the designs that have posted them here for constructive feedback.
The point was painfully clear: the designs presented hearkened back to the 1990s, and thus appeared to lack originality. I'll have to work on the coddling, I guess.
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buuuut, a genuinely original car that knocks everyone's socks off and has the staying power of an a/c cobra is pretty tall order that stewb is entirely off-base to expect.
Good thing I did not state anywhere in this thread that I expect a car that "knocks everyone's socks off and has the staying power of an a/c cobra." Otherwise I would be "off-base."
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:15 PM   #348
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What ever happened to the starving artist?
they got outsourced, i think.

Quote:
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Patience while I state the obvious, but I think stewb's failure was in the delivery, not the message.
Frank, while i respect where you're going with that, anyone who posts their work up on a forum or otherwise had better be able to handle some criticism, even abject disgust. It's all part of doing very subjective work. We're not special snowflakes and we won't be getting gold stars Most of us (hopefully) are aware we aren't going to win this, and we're doing it because we just really like to draw what we damn well think looks good.

Take the good with the bad, and know at the end of the day that it's just an opinion, etc.

Last edited by ScottyB; 05-23-2011 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:41 PM   #349
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Effort and time spent do not guarantee success, which is why I did not waste time trying to come up with something that I know would be horrible in hopes of receiving polite praise and adulation..
Yeah, you missed the point. While your post certainly wasn't outright rude in comparison to what regularly goes on on nasioc, this thread has had a certain tone to it, respectful of people's efforts, even if when expressing distaste.

There is a reason numerous people have commented on you post, it just didn't come across well. You don't care, fine. No point in going on about it.

Last edited by REX8; 05-23-2011 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:47 PM   #350
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they got outsourced, i think.



Frank, while i respect where you're going with that, anyone who posts their work up on a forum or otherwise had better be able to handle some criticism, even abject disgust.
If you read the thread, there is plenty of criticism going on, without people getting defensive or angry.

He came across as a bit of a jerk in his post, that's all.
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