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Old 04-15-2013, 12:57 PM   #1251
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I think it looks cheap and mediocre but I'm mostly just annoyed that they held the design contest only to disregard all entries and build what they had planned from the beginning. It was just an advertising stunt for Solidworks.
Do you really think the other winners' designs were realistic given the budget, and the fact that you have to build this car so it looks reasonable on stock wheels?

The other designs were attention-getting, bulging concept works. Not production feasible designs at this price point.
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:11 PM   #1252
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There were hundreds of submissions.. some of them were very simple and attractive.
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:17 PM   #1253
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I think people are misunderstanding us... A geo metro is by no means a pretty car, but at least it has similar design language used on every part of the car. This thing looks like Frankenstein pieced together. You can't tell me they couldn't have had the exact same price with MILLIONS of possible design decisions.
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:17 PM   #1254
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It's whatever you say it is. No one else has the time or stubborn stupidity to go back and forth with you perpetually, H2B^2v2.0.
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:30 PM   #1255
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In the real world, you can't produce everything that can be designed.

Companies have constraints, goals, and limited resources.

Do you really think they wouldn't like to make their own P1, Huayra, Aventador, Konigsegg... etc.

They picked it due to homework they already done on it. Including analysis, economics, feasibility... whatever.

to anyone thinks it's easy to design a car.

Anyways, people always criticize new designs, because the majority of people don't know nothing about design except referring to old design, which they are accustomed to.
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:09 PM   #1256
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In the real world, you can't produce everything that can be designed.

Companies have constraints, goals, and limited resources.

Do you really think they wouldn't like to make their own P1, Huayra, Aventador, Konigsegg... etc.

They picked it due to homework they already done on it. Including analysis, economics, feasibility... whatever.

to anyone thinks it's easy to design a car.

Anyways, people always criticize new designs, because the majority of people don't know nothing about design except referring to old design, which they are accustomed to.
They held a design contest.. and then tossed all of that aside. I never said it was easy.. but they never even gave the contest entries a chance.
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:37 PM   #1257
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They held a design contest.. and then tossed all of that aside. I never said it was easy.. but they never even gave the contest entries a chance.
I doubt they "tossed it out", there would have been no point of doing the contest.

The contest entries had no chance? They created the contest to let people's ideas come through and they appreciated the designs.

There was a chance for you as well, but you failed to even try and now complaining in a forum.

We all do respect though. The design fits the theme perfectly. A kit car with Subaru components and the looks of something from Cars is pretty cool.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:24 PM   #1258
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The Spartan V.

This is how a track day sports car should look.

Cutouts in the front fenders, and BAC Mono like Hella separate module headlights would be fine to make it street legal.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:50 PM   #1259
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I doubt they "tossed it out", there would have been no point of doing the contest.
Solidworks was using the contest as a PR stunt.. I already mentioned that. If you go back and watch the videos about the contest, it's pretty blatant.

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Originally Posted by 4wdwrx View Post
The contest entries had no chance? They created the contest to let people's ideas come through and they appreciated the designs.
I'm sure they "appreciated" the designs and the hype.

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Originally Posted by 4wdwrx View Post
There was a chance for you as well, but you failed to even try and now complaining in a forum.
WT are you talking about? I failed at my chance to have my design ignored? Yeah, I'm really upset about not wasting my time working up a design for them... you got me there.

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We all do respect though.
Naturally..
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Originally Posted by 4wdwrx View Post
The design fits the theme perfectly. A kit car with Subaru components and the looks of something from Cars is pretty cool.
Are you high right now?
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:46 PM   #1260
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They held a design contest.. and then tossed all of that aside. I never said it was easy.. but they never even gave the contest entries a chance.
They did. They made several of them in 1/4 scale models. The 2D models that were cool ended up looking rather awkward in real 3D. Just like a low 3/4 shot of a car looks cool but a random angle at standing height often looks meh.

Everyone loved rodneys car.



In 3D it looked awkward, had a minimal sized cockpit that wouldn't lend itself to a legitimate tube frame chassis. Also note no area for the doors to actually open (no panel gaps at all).


(pic might link to FFR forums and not be viewable)


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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
The Spartan V.

This is how a track day sports car should look.
I really rather dislike that. Looks like a melted sheet of plastic over a car frame or something from the 60's (or even speed racer). Just further proof that what you (ie: anyone) thinks is great doesn't mean it's universal.

I'd rather it look like the lotus 2-11 (which it somewhat does).
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:07 PM   #1261
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They did. They made several of them in 1/4 scale models.
They also showed their own design in a 1/4 scale model at the same time... which is what they went with... which is why I've been saying that they blatantly disregarded the whole contest.


.. unless I'm completely misremembering how that went down.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:17 PM   #1262
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IMHO, they picked the wrong top 3. 2 of them were never going to make production realistically.

There was an Aston-esque one that was simple enough to make, posted earlier in this thread. That could have had a fighting chance.

But Rodney's? No way, too cartoon. He tried to dial it back and bring it into production reality over the following months, but it was too late, they were moving forward with the other one.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:39 PM   #1263
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As I remember it, they said the contest was to see what enthusiasts would come up with. I don't think they ever said or implied that any submissions would be used as the actual 818 design, but many people assumed that was the case anyway. They also gave away prize money and devoted what was probably not an insignificant amount of time to a company their size to the whole exercise. I imagine they're doing what they think is best for their long term success. You may disagree, but I don't think there is any basis for ill will towards them or the contest. This horse has been beat to many deaths already.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:05 PM   #1264
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They also showed their own design in a 1/4 scale model at the same time... which is what they went with... which is why I've been saying that they blatantly disregarded the whole contest.


.. unless I'm completely misremembering how that went down.
You remember correctly but, they did put time and money into actually making the other models. They could have stopped at the 2D contest and said "thanks".
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:09 PM   #1265
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I really rather dislike that. Looks like a melted sheet of plastic over a car frame or something from the 60's (or even speed racer). Just further proof that what you (ie: anyone) thinks is great doesn't mean it's universal.

I'd rather it look like the lotus 2-11 (which it somewhat does).
50's and 60's was *the* era of open-cockpit race cars, and were styled by WWII aircraft designers, like Malcolm Sayer, who actually understood airflow management, rather than modern times that have to make something aerodynamically acceptable under huge volumes of automotive regulations.

With a track car, you want as few pieces as possible, and as little weight. you don't have to tape up headlight lenses that don't exist, and aren't used anyway.

Entire clamshells of body work that remove or entirely hinge, with quick fasteners are simpler and lighter.

A street version would have headlights, of course, and perhaps a separate front bay lid.

The proportions and forms of the Spartan look far more developed, and also aesthetically pleasing than the weird sneering looks and awkwardly fitting lines and features of the 818 body.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:31 PM   #1266
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
50's and 60's was *the* era of open-cockpit race cars, and were styled by WWII aircraft designers, like Malcolm Sayer, who actually understood airflow management, rather than modern times that have to make something aerodynamically acceptable under huge volumes of automotive regulations.

With a track car, you want as few pieces as possible, and as little weight. you don't have to tape up headlight lenses that don't exist, and aren't used anyway.

Entire clamshells of body work that remove or entirely hinge, with quick fasteners are simpler and lighter.

A street version would have headlights, of course, and perhaps a separate front bay lid.

The proportions and forms of the Spartan look far more developed, and also aesthetically pleasing than the weird sneering looks and awkwardly fitting lines and features of the 818 body.
While this sounds interesting... Have some innovation, you always talk about old designs. Have some originality for a change.

I think for a kit car, anything goes. I'd rather they have some originality than copy some other designs straight up. Whats difference would that make compared to Chinese cars.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:14 PM   #1267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare

50's and 60's was *the* era of open-cockpit race cars, and were styled by WWII aircraft designers, like Malcolm Sayer, who actually understood airflow management, rather than modern times that have to make something aerodynamically acceptable under huge volumes of automotive regulations.

With a track car, you want as few pieces as possible, and as little weight. you don't have to tape up headlight lenses that don't exist, and aren't used anyway.

Entire clamshells of body work that remove or entirely hinge, with quick fasteners are simpler and lighter.

A street version would have headlights, of course, and perhaps a separate front bay lid.

The proportions and forms of the Spartan look far more developed, and also aesthetically pleasing than the weird sneering looks and awkwardly fitting lines and features of the 818 body.
Sorry, bit knowing some aero and having an internship largely based around ground vehicle aero, this sounds like a pile of "I read a book about what we thought aero was" and we don't know@%&/...well, I'll let you fill that in.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:24 AM   #1268
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You have it backwards.

The blue car model was derived from the the very first rendering - the entry that was one of the top 5 finishers IIRC.

The orange rendering was the product of pretty extensive 'input' of how the blue car was not realistic in the real world - well after the contest and while every one was waiting to see what would happen. If you care to really see how the design evolved, read below:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...nd-Suggestions

Post # 1 - blue car
Post # 819 - orange car





Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechie3 View Post
They did. They made several of them in 1/4 scale models. The 2D models that were cool ended up looking rather awkward in real 3D. Just like a low 3/4 shot of a car looks cool but a random angle at standing height often looks meh.

Everyone loved rodneys car.



In 3D it looked awkward, had a minimal sized cockpit that wouldn't lend itself to a legitimate tube frame chassis. Also note no area for the doors to actually open (no panel gaps at all).


(pic might link to FFR forums and not be viewable)




I really rather dislike that. Looks like a melted sheet of plastic over a car frame or something from the 60's (or even speed racer). Just further proof that what you (ie: anyone) thinks is great doesn't mean it's universal.

I'd rather it look like the lotus 2-11 (which it somewhat does).
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:36 AM   #1269
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Originally Posted by Evan View Post
I don't think they ever said or implied that any submissions would be used as the actual 818 design, but many people assumed that was the case anyway.
Are you ****ing kidding me?



https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-ne...-factory-five/
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:12 AM   #1270
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To reply or not to reply....to the guy that thinks the penultimate irreplaceable middle class car collection is a miata and SVX... (not 100% serious).

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50's and 60's was *the* era of open-cockpit race cars,
We still have open cockpit cars. The 50's and 60's were not the be all end technological peak of open top cars. Just because open top cars were more prevalent then doesn't mean they were better than the later open top cars. I think these cars all look way cooler, generate more downforce, and are much faster than any car from the 60's.







Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
styled by WWII aircraft designers, like Malcolm Sayer, who actually understood airflow management, rather than modern times that have to make something aerodynamically acceptable under huge volumes of automotive regulations.
So it was styled by WWII designers? Great. That doesn't prove anything other than the fact that you like WWII planes. I like new fighter planes so therefore, anything that looks like new fighter planes is >** In that case, the Lamborghini Reventon, styled after the F22, must be >** by that logic.

Today's cars develop more downforce and have better airflow management than the 50's and 60's car in spite of the fact that they have automotive regulations for racecars. The rules are there because engineering progressed so much that the FIA and other groups said "this is getting insane, we need to protect the drivers". Yes, the new cars have more drag, but that's a tradeoff with downforce. If you truly think we had a better understanding of fluid dynamics in the 60's than we do now, you're mistaken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
With a track car, you want as few pieces as possible, and as little weight. you don't have to tape up headlight lenses that don't exist, and aren't used anyway.

Entire clamshells of body work that remove or entirely hinge, with quick fasteners are simpler and lighter.
No you don't. Maybe for a salt flats car or a theoretical wind tunnel model you want a 1 piece body. For a track car you want easily replaceable pieces. Ever see lemans cars that can can replace the entire front end of the car in 5 seconds? Indycars that can replace an entire nose cone and wing in 5 seconds? Even for the amateur racer, replacing a $100 panel after a race (not even considering time) is a better option than replacing a complete $1000+ single piece body.

Lotus went with a clamshell design on the elise/exige. I've heard of cars being totaled due to body damage because the cost to replace the clamshell is rather high. Crack your bumper? Cough up $6k minimum to have it replaced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
The proportions and forms of the Spartan look far more developed, and also aesthetically pleasing than the weird sneering looks and awkwardly fitting lines and features of the 818 body.
Again, it's personal preference. I think the spartan looks old, dated, and like a cheap vacuum formed piece of plastic. Also, smooth and swoopy does not mean aerodynamic either. It might look smooth, but air does not always react how you might think. I'm a mechanical engineer, albeit without a huge fluids background, but a decent understanding of flow, separations, stalling, vortices, etc. The spartan takes the "it's smooth and bubbly, it must be aerodynamic" standpoint. Not necessarily.




Overall, I think the issue with the 818 can be summed up with this: People were hoping to get the performance AND looks of a $500k exotic for $10k. When they got the performance (easy to obtain) but not the looks, their hopes of a poor mans ferrari were dashed, and reality came back.

Last edited by Mechie3; 04-18-2013 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:19 AM   #1271
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Double post. My bad.

I did have that orange/blue car order mixed up. I couldn't remember which came first since he had so many renditions.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:42 PM   #1272
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Well, it says "help design". It seems pretty nieve to think that any company is going to commit to building an outside design using their own money. I was basing my statement on my recollection of statements made in the FFR forum by Dave Smith. I didn't bother to go back and re-read stuff, but my impression all along was that they'd use submissions as inspiration for their own design or modify one of the submissions. Or perhaps they didn't say that at all and I just made that assumption because it seemed obvious to me that chances were slim that they'd just take a submission they liked and run with it. I don't see any reason to be upset with them, but you're entitled to your opinion.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:21 PM   #1273
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Email #6 came out today. 0-60 times are sub 4 seconds with the equivalent of a stage 2 06 WRX motor.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:06 PM   #1274
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Email #6 came out today. 0-60 times are sub 4 seconds with the equivalent of a stage 2 06 WRX motor.
The FF acronym is going to have a new meaning now. That is ... Fast


And this is the best news I've read all day

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Old 04-24-2013, 11:41 AM   #1275
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No you don't. Maybe for a salt flats car or a theoretical wind tunnel model you want a 1 piece body. For a track car you want easily replaceable pieces. Ever see lemans cars that can can replace the entire front end of the car in 5 seconds? Indycars that can replace an entire nose cone and wing in 5 seconds? Even for the amateur racer, replacing a $100 panel after a race (not even considering time) is a better option than replacing a complete $1000+ single piece body.

Lotus went with a clamshell design on the elise/exige. I've heard of cars being totaled due to body damage because the cost to replace the clamshell is rather high. Crack your bumper? Cough up $6k minimum to have it replaced.
for a track-only car, I was thinking thermo-formed Sheet molded compound, or something less expensive to make on one form, in one piece.

The clamshell on an elise/exige is a street-legal car, that has to meet crash test standards, not a frame-reinforced, simple-bodied racing car. Plus it was probably a sophisticated composite-layered fiberglass, or maybe carbon fiber on some models... yeah, that gets expensive.

I can see having a separate facia/bumper cover, and then a hood/fender-top piece, so that bumpers can be replaced.

But fewer parts counts of not having 15+ pieces of front bodywork is less expensive to produce, and thus to buy. For people who aren't on a LeMans or F1 budget.
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