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Old 04-24-2013, 01:13 PM   #1276
Snowphun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
The clamshell on an elise/exige is a street-legal car, that has to meet crash test standards, not a frame-reinforced, simple-bodied racing car. Plus it was probably a sophisticated composite-layered fiberglass, or maybe carbon fiber on some models... yeah, that gets expensive.
No, the Elige clams have not met crash test standards, and the cars don't have bumper beams. So the slightest parking lot impact becomes expensive. Bang up either end of the car and you're patching or replacing.

I've lost track of the 818: are they coming unpainted now or will they still be gell based colors that need no body work? Painting will obviously increase the final price significantly, though Icould see many people working with vinyl wraps.
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Last edited by Snowphun; 04-25-2013 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:17 PM   #1277
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Dave said a no paint required gelcoat for launch in red, white , or blue (though he hasn't said if it's red white and blue, or one of the three only).

Some recent posts from Dave:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Smith View Post


One of the things I've noticed between people's feedback on photographs vs. seeing the car in real life is that the curves of the car don't show well in photos. The car has some beautiful curves. I think this photo shows some of what I'm talking about.

As far as panel fitment we are way ahead of any other FFR car and the development work on body molding process has been great but still not ready for prime time. One of the cool things about the way we made the body is that it does lend itself to making changes to individaul panels (or the nose lower, etc). Still, for now I am satisfied with the shape and will do nothing until we get into production.

The Lotus is definitely lighter, BUT the performance of the car is really stellar. Super rigid chassis and with Koni's help and some more track time, this car will embarass so many other "storied" cars. I think the guys delivered on the design goals.

Dave

lastly: photos are by Dino Petrocelli. His work is excellent and really shows the quality of the engineering, fitment, design the guys have made.
Quote:
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The car is faster than our challenge cars right now. That is a HUGE statement. Watch a Challenge car go around VIR and you'll understand the gravity of that. There are VERY FEW cars that can match this car's performance and it is a pure function of engineering maturity in the design team. When you consider the price-to-performance ratio it literally has no competition and occupies its own niche.

Body molding has been the biggest challenge. I think we'll launch in white or red or blue gel-coat with conventional hand-laid panels with no mold parting lines as the parts are all small panels that can release from high quality molds. The work on thermo-forming process is ongoing, but not successful at this time. By body changes, I meant that the plugs, or master shapes are in CAD and can be modified with new panels relatively easily.

As far as releasing updates "to kill the ugly stick thread"?! Sometimes I dont know what to say. The scope, investment, partners, complexity and challenge of this project makes it very difficult to find time to keep up on the forums, and if I had the precious time, I doubt I would spend it in such a manner, engaging in a conversation of opinions that can neither be changed, nor affect the critical path to launch and the execution of the project.

I've made regular updates, as promissed, kept to a strict development path, hit every target date, made design goals and kept to them, and involved a community to the degreee possible that would present the car the biggest advantages and the least liabilities. In the end, I get the blame or credit for the result. As we close in on production, I am feeling pretty confident that it'll fall alot heavier towards the credit side than the blame side.

I'll go further. Without the yoke of divided leadership, I've seen a remarkable year indeed... one of the greatest ever in FFR hsitory and with the fellowship and synchronized work of this experienced and truly talented staff, I believe Factory Five Racing will (has) become one of the great iconic performance automobile companies in the world. Years from now I think they will write about what you and I are doing here, with the 818, with our community, and with these amazing designs that are born from passion of real people, committed to doing something great and meaningful. I gotta get home!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Smith View Post
The gel coated panels will not need paint.

The soft top is going to be made by the boys at Rod Tops (they currently make the high-end tops for the 33 Hot Rod and Mk4 and they are expensive, but excellent at weather-sealing and really work alot better than the original style roadster tops). The soft top will work with the current body, but since we've made small changes to many of the panels we didnt want them fitting the top to anything up to now. The plan calls for the production car being built in May for the assembly manual to be used for the top fitment, which is why the top will likely be launched a month or two after the car is released.

I have had over 1000 posts, mostly when the forum started and not many in the last 6 months as we've been transitioning from community engagement on the 818 to final development and pre-production stuff.

I think sometimes I can take for granted that everyone knows, or at least understands the scale that we are working on when engineering and testing an alll-new design. Here's ONE small example. The shocks on the car are very similar to what we've run on roadsters and coupes and hot rods right? well, no. Just to get the right shock, rebound/dampening/pre-loads/etc we are doing a TON of work. It will be a solid week on the road, with a crew of four from FFR, three guys from KONI, two days on the rented track ($1,000 per car per day = $4,000 for just two days and thats just for the track, not the crew, trucks, food, support, drivers, etc)... That's just the shocks. Sure we are doing other things concurrently, but the scale of work is mind-numbing for a small company. This project has taken two years and a TON of resources.

We're doing our best and we're close to production. I'm most proud of the fact that we are staying very close to all of our design goals, our planned develpment and launch nodes, and that the car is so much better than we thought it would be.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:32 AM   #1278
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testing at NCCAR yesterday and today.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:19 AM   #1279
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They need to learn to design cars so that the wheel is centered in the wheel well at the resting ride height, not at full droop. All of their cars seem to have the wheel off centered like this.

original has even gap around the wheel


FF replica has larger gap in front of wheel

Last edited by spaceywilly; 04-25-2013 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:30 AM   #1280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
They need to learn to design cars so that the wheel is centered in the wheel well at the resting ride height, not at full droop. All of their cars seem to have the wheel off centered like this.
But the design budget wouldn't allow for the body panels to be reshaped such that they would be centered like that. The extra 1" move of the rear fender towards the wheel would be ungodly costly. You can't just design shapes or cohesiveness in designs, everyone knows that adds price. They did it to save money!
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:35 PM   #1281
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Actually, in the original vs replica.. the original shot is from a higher angle and a wider angle lens (ie: closer) making the rear fender appear to wrap around the wheel even though it and the replica are shaped nearly identically.


An original Cobra from the side:
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:47 PM   #1282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhoward1 View Post
testing at NCCAR yesterday and today.



Ready for some hot laps:

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Old 04-26-2013, 10:45 AM   #1283
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They have a revised front 'bumper' on the track model?
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:03 AM   #1284
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There were a few "test" pieces there. Koni was there are well so help with suspension tuning. The cars are down right FAST.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:04 AM   #1285
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That passenger's head is also above the roll bar.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:07 AM   #1286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
They have a revised front 'bumper' on the track model?
Dave addressed it on the FFR forum:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Smith
The black nose is from an on-track incident last week.
As for changes, he mentioned:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Smith
The hood was changed along the leading lower edge to be flat at the radiator opening.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:10 AM   #1287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
That passenger's head is also above the roll bar.
I think the current bar in in the 818S is just a temp piece placed there while testing. It has been changed since a bit sice the photo shoot. Getting a proper fitting bar will be much like getting one in any open top vehicle.

Last edited by mhoward1; 04-26-2013 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:11 AM   #1288
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Excellent.. the upward curve of the radiator opening was one of the ugliest parts of the car, IMO.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:16 AM   #1289
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:31 PM   #1290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhoward1 View Post
I think the current bar in in the 818S is just a temp piece placed there while testing. It has been changed since a bit sice the photo shoot. Getting a proper fitting bar will be much like getting one in any open top vehicle.
Are you saying the car owner would/could fab up a taller bar if needed? The bar is part of the tube structure of the car, right?

It is worrisome for me as they also aren't using the tall WRX seats so the composite seats they are in are probably mounted pretty low.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:33 PM   #1291
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I think the red S car they had at SEMA had WRX seats in it, but I don't know if they remained in for track testing.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:57 PM   #1292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
Are you saying the car owner would/could fab up a taller bar if needed? The bar is part of the tube structure of the car, right?

It is worrisome for me as they also aren't using the tall WRX seats so the composite seats they are in are probably mounted pretty low.
The seats in the red car were not mounted nearly as low as the 818R. There was room to go lower.

As far as the bar, they are working on the final height but I am sure it won't meet the needs of everyone. I am glad to see roll over protection since so many larger company convertibles donít offer any at all. The nice thing about a tubular chassis is changes can be made. Many of us changed the roll over protection of the challenge cars to match what we wanted. A good cage designer will know what can be done without affecting the structure rigidity.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:57 PM   #1293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
It is worrisome for me as they also aren't using the tall WRX seats so the composite seats they are in are probably mounted pretty low.
We also don't know how tall the dude riding shotgun is. He could be 6'10" for all we know.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:58 PM   #1294
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We also don't know how tall the dude riding shotgun is. He could be 6'10" for all we know.
Joe isn't a small guy.

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Old 04-26-2013, 02:19 PM   #1295
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The red car at SEMA had 06 TR seats and a different roll bar. I believe the seats in the current red car are the seats available from the GTM. There are other pictures that show drivers being below the bar.

(probably need to login to FFR to see these).
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attac...3&d=1366918891
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Old 04-26-2013, 03:16 PM   #1296
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^^^Good.

Worst thing they could do is make a weekend/track-day "giant killer" that's not legal for a large portion of track days.

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Old 04-30-2013, 03:20 PM   #1297
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:12 PM   #1298
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That thing sounds amazing at 0rpm.
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:24 PM   #1299
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Default Road & Track eval of 818

Road & Track July issue has a 6-page evaluation of the 818. Very good review. "It rips the tires loose in pit lane on a whisper of throttle. Forget the WRX. Forget every street car you've ever driven. This is something else."
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:26 PM   #1300
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They are finishing up this one for the open house. Should be lots more pics tomorrow.
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