Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday September 2, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-15-2011, 03:34 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Obama budget ends funding for clean diesel, cuts fuel-cell plan

Quote:
WASHINGTON (Bloomberg) -- The Obama administration proposed ending a clean-diesel grant program and cutting research for hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles while spurring the market for electric cars.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's fiscal 2012 budget reduces the Clean Diesel Program's budget from $80 million in 2010 to zero. The program was reauthorized by Congress for five years and a total of $500 million in December.

President Barack Obama is working to realign the U.S. government's vehicle-technology priorities. The White House budget proposes diverting funds from a dozen energy-company tax breaks to help pay for putting 1 million electric vehicles on the road by 2015, doubling the share of electricity from clean energy by 2035 and increasing the efficiency of energy use in buildings by 20 percent.

The budget proposal would transform a $7,500 tax credit for buyers of plug-in electric cars into a rebate at the dealership so purchasers wouldn't have to wait to claim the credit on tax returns. Obama, in his State of the Union address last month, reiterated his goal of having 1 million electric vehicles, both plug-in and hybrid electric, on U.S. roads in four years.

The current clean-diesel spending plan was signed into law in January and pays local governments to retrofit buses, trucks and construction equipment. In addition to eliminating that, the budget proposes allocating no money to a hydrogen fuel-cell program in the Energy Department that had $49 million in the 2010 fiscal year.

Industry response

A hydrogen fuel-cell industry trade group criticized Obama's cuts, saying it would be foolish to abandon government investment. President George W. Bush proposed a $1.2 billion program for the technology.

“We ask Congress to act now and restore funding to fuel cell and hydrogen energy programs, or risk ceding our leadership to strategic competitors as we have done with wind, solar, and batteries,” Ruth Cox, president of the Fuel Cell and Hydrogen Energy Association, said today in a statement. The group's members include Honda Motor Co., Toyota Motor Corp., 3M Co. and Boeing Co.

Honda, which doesn't have an electric car on the market, has leased FCX Clarity hydrogen cars to drivers in the Los Angeles area since 2008. Daimler AG started leasing fuel-cell Mercedes-Benz hatchbacks in California last year. Toyota has said it plans to sell hydrogen cars in California, Japan and Germany by 2015
need5
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 02-15-2011, 03:35 AM   #2
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Obama proposes $200 million in community grants for EV use, infrastructure

Quote:
WASHINGTON -- President Obama’s fiscal 2012 budget proposal would give $200 million in federal grants to as many as 30 communities that advance electric vehicle use through fleet purchases, infrastructure investment and streamlined regulations.

The new grants, which would be provided to communities that make competitive bids, seek to help the administration reach its goal of putting 1 million advanced-technology vehicles on U.S. roads by 2015.

The budget proposal released today, which requires congressional approval, also would significantly increase r&d in batteries and energy storage.

“This would decrease our dependence on imported oil,” Energy Secretary Steven Chu said today at a news conference.

The budget would increase spending for vehicle technologies by 88 percent to $588 million beginning Oct. 1. The $267 million increase includes the $200 million for grants “to help communities across the country become early adopters of electric vehicles,” the budget proposal says.

The administration has sought to promote wider use of electric vehicles. But any new budget increase will have to overcome skepticism by House Republicans.

“I am particularly disappointed to see the White House continuing its efforts to manipulate free enterprise -- whether on energy or health care or technology,” House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Fred Upton, R-Mich., said today. “This budget continues to advance policies in which the federal government picks winners and losers, rather than letting the American people and the power of competition identify the most efficient, effective investment of resources.”

The administration said possible uses for the community EV grants include local parking and high-occupancy vehicle access incentives, partnerships with large employers and work force training.

Skeptics have questioned whether the government and automakers can overcome consumer concerns about EV prices, lack of charging stations and high battery costs.
need5
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 09:12 AM   #3
justincredible
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83633
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: The Mountains
Vehicle:
2012 bright green
box

Default

Bad move.
justincredible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 09:57 AM   #4
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2014 GLK350/2016 WRX
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

FU Barack. Keep your agenda out of the private industry. Diesel is great alternative, but because it does not jive with your idiot belief that electric cars are the future you cut its funding? DIAF.

Last edited by SCRAPPYDO; 02-15-2011 at 11:01 AM.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 10:26 AM   #5
mpaone
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3
Join Date: Jun 1999
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Alfretter Geeoja
Vehicle:
2012 Geeteeeye
and 71' VW Gulf Beetle

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
FU Barack. Keep your agenda out of the private industry. Diesel is great alternative, but because it does not give with your idiot belief that electric cars are the future you cut its funding? DIAF.
This. How retarded is our leader?

-Mike.
mpaone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 11:35 AM   #6
left footed whooten
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44652
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Truckee, CA
Vehicle:
06 WRX
15 Forester

Default

I just dont get the short-sightedness of this move. Where do they think the electricity comes from. Its a shame smart moves arent more profitable or supported, we should be maximizing efficiency of the established fuels we have while searching for the new alternative. We need more clean diesel and efficient gas vehicles while we pursue the new technologies. What the hell ever happened to the FCV Honda?
left footed whooten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 12:13 PM   #7
Lboogie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 171611
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Silicon Valley
Vehicle:
2014 FiST
Blk

Default

While I don't agree with the move against clean diesel, especially because a hybrid clean diesel electric would rape a Chevy Volt, I can see the logic behind the move away from Hydrogen Fuel Cells.

We already have a national electric grid, why force the automakers and gas companies to switch everything over to Hydrogen? Wouldn't that be more of the 'socialism' thats allegedly happening?

Back on topic - Lets count how many Hydrogen fueling stations and diesel pumps we have in houses and work locations, compared to electric outlets. I'll wait for a tally to show how this budge move is a failure if you got the proof...
Lboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 12:42 PM   #8
RandomRacing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 138089
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Vehicle:
2011 WRX
"Oh hi officer" Red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lboogie View Post
While I don't agree with the move against clean diesel, especially because a hybrid clean diesel electric would rape a Chevy Volt, I can see the logic behind the move away from Hydrogen Fuel Cells.

We already have a national electric grid, why force the automakers and gas companies to switch everything over to Hydrogen? Wouldn't that be more of the 'socialism' thats allegedly happening?

Back on topic - Lets count how many Hydrogen fueling stations and diesel pumps we have in houses and work locations, compared to electric outlets. I'll wait for a tally to show how this budge move is a failure if you got the proof...
I agree on all counts about the diesel...

But Hydrogen fuel cells really are the answer. Just because there are no stations now (at least where I live), doesn't mean it won't work.

Electric cars require you let your car sit and charge. Energy costs go up at home, and your range is pretty limited (for now). Could you imagine trying to do a cross country road trip in a pure EV? A 12 hour trip would now take 4 days.

But with hydrogen fuel cells, we don't have to change our routine. We take our cars to the "gas" station like we always have. There is no infrastructure change. The oil companies would have to adapt and I'm sure they would. The gas stations would have to add new pumping technologies and storage, but Shell is already doing this LINK. It's not out of reach. Hydrogen cars are the future.
RandomRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 01:04 PM   #9
Lboogie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 171611
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Silicon Valley
Vehicle:
2014 FiST
Blk

Default

I agree Hydrogen is the future, I'm not against innovation, it's 2010 and we were supposed to have flying cars YEARS ago (JK).

But the oil companies are going to milk the oil paradigm, literally, until its dry. Greed & Sloth you know. It would take some govt. regulation to force a widespread, beyond the current experimental phase, implementation of Hydrogen fueling....but nobody wants the govt telling the private sector what to do.
Lboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 01:25 PM   #10
left footed whooten
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44652
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Truckee, CA
Vehicle:
06 WRX
15 Forester

Default

There are also neither type of station anywhere near where I live to my knowledge. Nothing I know of outside the bay area, definitely nothing in Reno. Maybe sacramento? Maybe the foothills since its lots of bay area folks who packed up their priuses to live in grass valley and be artists. Theyd burn baby seals for fuel if they could in Reno.

Agreed with the greed and sloth, I mean, how much will all the sudden drastically change at that moment when they have nothing in their stores. Their tune will change.
left footed whooten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 01:34 PM   #11
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2014 GLK350/2016 WRX
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lboogie View Post
I agree Hydrogen is the future, I'm not against innovation, it's 2010 and we were supposed to have flying cars YEARS ago (JK).

But the oil companies are going to milk the oil paradigm, literally, until its dry. Greed & Sloth you know. It would take some govt. regulation to force a widespread, beyond the current experimental phase, implementation of Hydrogen fueling....but nobody wants the govt telling the private sector what to do.

More greed than sloth....The oil cash cow is far form being milked dry, but when that starts to happen, and you can bet that oil companies will be the FIRST to know, they will start to increase pressure on our government to get to hydrogen. If the oil companies are not worried about running out now, you should not be. Remember oil companies could care less about oil, what they love is profit, money, moo-la. When oil ceases to become profitable, they will fire up the spin campaign and marketing and say Hydrogen is the natural solution, and they will seek huge government incentives and subsidies to help put hydrogen stations on every corner, so they can keep making money, only on hydrogen instead of oil. Where there is profit to be had, there will be energy companies.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 01:46 PM   #12
scott_gunn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4203
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Vehicle:
2009 WRX 5spd hatch
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Any of you guys seen how much we're paying in interest on our debt? (see link below) Gotta make many more painful spending cuts than just this. Clean diesel doesn't need subsidies from our government. It will happen on its own if it is cost efficient.

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html.../index.html?hp
scott_gunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 02:29 PM   #13
samagon
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 26859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: undisputed COMBAT! champion
Vehicle:
of TXIC
I also like (oYo)!!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by left footed whooten View Post
I just dont get the short-sightedness of this move. Where do they think the electricity comes from. Its a shame smart moves arent more profitable or supported, we should be maximizing efficiency of the established fuels we have while searching for the new alternative. We need more clean diesel and efficient gas vehicles while we pursue the new technologies. What the hell ever happened to the FCV Honda?
actually, in theory it's a lot easier to ensure 1 power plant is meeting regulations than it is to ensure 1 million cars are meeting regulations.

any emissions from a power plant that are emitted are done so out of the city.

there's lots of benefits to going electric.

even in the most expensive parts of the country, the cost of electricity is a wash with the cost of gasoline, in other parts of the country people could save lots of money with electric vehicles.

there's negatives too, but there are a lot of positives that you can't just ignore.
samagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 02:34 PM   #14
left footed whooten
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44652
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Truckee, CA
Vehicle:
06 WRX
15 Forester

Default

Seems to me that the positives lean more toward cost issues, the negatives lean more toward environmental impact and such, manufacture, use, disposal, service life, etc.
left footed whooten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 04:23 PM   #15
neg_matnik
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132389
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: SF Bay Area
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Wagon SGM
2003 SV1000S, 2014 DL650

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
FU Barack. Keep your agenda out of the private industry. Diesel is great alternative, but because it does not jive with your idiot belief that electric cars are the future you cut its funding? DIAF.
Maybe I'm not reading/understanding this correctly, but it looks like this clean-diesel funding had no bearing on clean-Diesel vehicles that you or me could go out and buy. These funds were supposed to be applied to city/county/state vehicle fleets. Again, my remark is only based on my own understanding on this article. Look at it this way: Barack's administration is keeping out of the clean-Diesel private industry .

EDIT: I'm a huge fan of Diesel for passenger vehicles and light-duty pick-up trucks.
But, when you look at it, domestic manufacturers have not been making any efforts with small Diesel engines (I'm excluding large displacement Diesel engines here).

Last edited by neg_matnik; 02-15-2011 at 04:29 PM.
neg_matnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 04:29 PM   #16
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2014 GLK350/2016 WRX
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Could be but it is the governments choosing the technology we will be given in some form or another. I do not like it and neither should you. Most of the time the government pics winners, it screws up much more things. Obama should stick to what he is good at, green technologies is not it. Come to think of it...not sure what he is good at.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 04:36 PM   #17
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

They shouldn't be picking any winners or losers, and need to cut the hell out of a lot of things, and get back to the enumerated powers of the constitution. But he himself has said that he doesn't like the constitution, because it doesn't tell him what the government CAN do for... scratch that, he meant TO - the people.

Big govt for A or big govt for B... doesn't matter. They are BOTH wrong, and the Govt should be about protecting the people's safety and freedom, so that the people can choose A or B for themselves.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 04:38 PM   #18
silver arrow
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Foriderp
Vehicle:
1965 MGB yellow
2008 Black Miata

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by left footed whooten View Post
I just dont get the short-sightedness of this move. Where do they think the electricity comes from. Its a shame smart moves arent more profitable or supported, we should be maximizing efficiency of the established fuels we have while searching for the new alternative. We need more clean diesel and efficient gas vehicles while we pursue the new technologies. What the hell ever happened to the FCV Honda?
Agreed, I'd love a 2.0D Outback.
silver arrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 04:40 PM   #19
silver arrow
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Foriderp
Vehicle:
1965 MGB yellow
2008 Black Miata

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
They shouldn't be picking any winners or losers, and need to cut the hell out of a lot of things, and get back to the enumerated powers of the constitution. But he himself has said that he doesn't like the constitution, because it doesn't tell him what the government CAN do for... scratch that, he meant TO - the people.

Big govt for A or big govt for B... doesn't matter. They are BOTH wrong, and the Govt should be about protecting the people's safety and freedom, so that the people can choose A or B for themselves.
Dude save the drama. Obama has been firmly middle on almost every issue including passing Bob Doles GOP backed health care plan from the 90's. He's basically been a slight left leaning Black Bush.
silver arrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 04:55 PM   #20
Lboogie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 171611
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Silicon Valley
Vehicle:
2014 FiST
Blk

Default

Lboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 05:01 PM   #21
Stanley
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7374
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Bay, SFCA
Vehicle:
2007 Grandpamobile
BlingBlingBlue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_gunn View Post
Any of you guys seen how much we're paying in interest on our debt? (see link below) Gotta make many more painful spending cuts than just this. Clean diesel doesn't need subsidies from our government. It will happen on its own if it is cost efficient.

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html.../index.html?hp
I agree 100% on both counts. When fuel becomes more expensive, the most economic option will prevail. We already subsidize the oil and auto industry too much, imho. We also need to be realistic about how much money we are spending. Everyone wants a mansion and a luxury car, but not everyone owns these things. There is a reason for that.

Social editorial: I find it fascinating that we somehow find (print) well over a trillion dollars every couple of years to fund our military industrial complex and wage multiple wars. This is NOT meant to be a partisan comment as both the Dems and Repubs are responsible.
Stanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 05:07 PM   #22
fl4tsc
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 177247
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Hilton Head and Clemson, SC
Vehicle:
2005 WRB WRX
16GXT + 44mm EWG = wahhh!

Default

how about we just take all that money and put it into nuclear fusion? It seems to be the best bet we have for finding a clean way of producing the countries energy.

Even hydrogen power requires electricity to separate the hydrogen and oxygen from water. Then we have that whole problem of water being in shortage if we're using it all on hydrogen cars so we need a CHEAP way of making ocean water drinkable/clean enough to get hydrogen out of.

basically it's just a big cluster**** of every solution screwing us somehow.
fl4tsc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 05:17 PM   #23
manticus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 162857
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

So... he's cutting costs, and you're upset? Cutting subsidies means one industry is going to be picked over the other, big deal - if Diesel and Hydrogen are still viable they'll take off on their own merits. But last I checked almost every car manufacturer was moving full-steam ahead on Electric cars and pretty much still in development stage on the Hydrogen front. You're actually stunned that he's putting his eggs in the electric car bucket???

Look at the positives - LESS government subsidies overall, less interest paid on said subsidies, less taxes for you, more choice. Even if it isn't "the winner", the tech that spills down from better battery technology is going to be much more usable by a heck of a lot of industries (and people). Along with the cuts in defense spending, this seems to be a good thing for people that like less government interference. What's wrong with that?

(just offering a little positive insight to match all the pessimism)

manticus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 05:18 PM   #24
manticus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 162857
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fl4tsc View Post
how about we just take all that money and put it into nuclear fusion? It seems to be the best bet we have for finding a clean way of producing the countries energy.
Mmmm... ITER. That's definitely the future technology, we just need to scale that reactor down to car-size... (and then require insane amounts of licensing to drive around potential Fusion Bombs ) Crash tests will take on a whole new meaning.
manticus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 05:19 PM   #25
DivineStrike
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 162037
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charleston, SC
Vehicle:
2007 VW GTI Black
2007 CBR600rr White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_gunn View Post
Any of you guys seen how much we're paying in interest on our debt? (see link below) Gotta make many more painful spending cuts than just this. Clean diesel doesn't need subsidies from our government. It will happen on its own if it is cost efficient.

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html.../index.html?hp

it's amazing we spend more on our interest than we spend on military personel and military operations. why is it that we need more cuts on the defense? ( it won't make that big of a difference, and btw there'd be less spending in the defense department if we didn't spend $500 on stuff like an airplane toilet seat or 120 on a little green bulb, it's ridiculous how much we spend on stuff that costs 100x less. With Social Security and Medical expense, we are already past how much money the Gov't takes in. I'm against the idea of social security being a retirement fund but seeing as most of the other expenses in that category are just about health related, why is it called social security and not health care?

sorry off topic


but i really don't see y we wouldn't want to pursue/fund another technology (hydrogen) it's just one more thing the gov't and the world can profit from once it gets rolling. It's something we would all benefit from fiscally and healthwise.

Last edited by DivineStrike; 02-15-2011 at 05:34 PM.
DivineStrike is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yay, no more federal funding for embryonic stem cell research! :unhappybanana: Keith Off-Topic 84 08-24-2010 11:05 AM
Kia's Big Fuel Cell Plans AVANTI R5 Non-Subaru News & Rumors 0 07-09-2009 08:25 AM
Honda plans hydrogen fuel cell car in "3 to 4 years" scott_gunn Non-Subaru News & Rumors 22 06-17-2008 09:54 PM
GM’s Fuel-Cell Vehicle Development Plan - AVANTI R5 Non-Subaru News & Rumors 0 04-02-2008 01:19 PM
Cingular Cell Plan expires end of this month KC New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC 35 08-21-2005 09:17 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2015, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.