PERRIN's Borg Warner EFR7670 is here.

[Bariga]

^ good comment

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[monkiboy]

Originally Posted by PERRINJeff

So this is like the new "Whats in your Ipod", but its, "Whats in your car"....

Right now the EFR7670 is back in place. I have been testing the Push/pull WG actuator i made, and also some BOV stuff. New springs, new caps, bigger BOV hole.. Things like that.

jeff, what's the latest?!

[dachopper]

I can only guess its going so well, he cant stop driving it !!!!!!!!

[kaneda3]

JEFF


correct if im wrong(been out of the game for many years so please cut me some slack) but i believe what you are saying by the efrs "feeling" faster is that you are getting quicker response from the turbo compared to your throttle inputs.

in other words, if the EFR**** hits peak TQ/target psi/etc at the same rpm or a C-hair after the GTX**** its actually quicker because it takes less time to go from 2000rpm at wide open throttle to 5000 rpm(or whatever)?


is this something you can test on a dynapack?



so make charts like this starting both turbos at the exact same rpms/throttle position and go from there. or maybe more practical for discussion is single gear roll on speeds like magazines do for car comparisons. 3rd gear 30mph throttle mash to 50mph.




sorry if that was confusing

[Big_DeWeY]

In for the 8374 results when they show up. We live in exciting times folks

[Aussiegman]

First post so please bare with me.

I've been reading this EFR thread for a while and while not a Subaru (I actually still have a V4 STi 2-door) I thought it might interest some.

I have managed to get my hands on both the 6258 and 6758 thanks to the guys from Full Race (thanks Raffi) for my race car here in Australia that runs the Euro ECOTEC 2.0Lt, similar to a US Cobalt.

I've managed to run both the 6258 and 6758 on the car using the mid actuator and a 0.64A/R rear housing. I can 100% back up the need for the high pressure actuator as it is definitely blowing open at 10-11psi.

Anyway, the car made At The Wheels 367hp on the 6258 and 380hp on the 6758. Given the transmission losses that approx. 440hp and 460hp at the flywheel respectively (estimated from roll down tests. I know its not 100% but it does almost line up with the flow rates of the EFR turbos).

The car had previously run a GT2860RS and a GT2871R and the difference to the EFR turbos is night and day, even with the actuator issue (parts on the way to fix that one too) with the EFR's mush more responsive and certainly quicker in gear.

The next option if the high actuator does break the 300kw ATW mark will be a 7064 with a twin scroll turbine. I will try and find the dyno printouts if anyones interested.

[seanathanq83]

^ heck yea would love to, really makes me wonder how the guys here made like 500whp on e85,

what kinda boost where you running, and what grade gas???

[Dutch Devotion]

You do 500 on e85 easy if you manage 450 on pump with same turbo. That's plain physics :-)

[dachopper]

Crickets!!!

Is it quite in this thread or is it just me

Has anyone fit an EFR turbo and do they have any results?

[seanathanq83]

Originally Posted by Dutch Devotion

You do 500 on e85 easy if you manage 450 on pump with same turbo. That's plain physics :-)

Yes but he did not do 450 at the wheels he Did 450 at the crank

[Aussiegman]

Originally Posted by seanathanq83

^ heck yea would love to, really makes me wonder how the guys here made like 500whp on e85,

what kinda boost where you running, and what grade gas???

Boost peaks just over 25psi and drops off to around 21psi due to the wastegate blowing open. With the high pressure actuator it should do much better. Fuel is E85.

This is the dyno sheet with the EFR6258 and EFR 6758 (power at the wheels)


The mechanical spec is below:

Electronics
Vipec V88 ECU
Vipec CDi Ignition
68mm Bosch Motorsport e-throttle

Z20LET head
Race porting including re-profiled throats, Chambers cc'd and polished, knife edged dividers, port matched manifolds

Valve Train:
Custom grind cams
Titanium retainers
Double Valve springs
+1.0mm oversize titanium intake valves with 5 angle seats
+0.5mm oversize inconel exhaust valves with 3 angle seats
Be-Cu valve seats
Cupro Nickel (Trojan) Valve guides

Z20LET Block:
Block and water galleries de-burred
ARP Head studs
MLS Head gasket
Darton steel liners
86.5mm Cosworth Pistons
Pauter Rods with ARP Pro-wave bolts & oiling grooves in the shoulders
Calico coated ACL Race rod Bearings & Calico coated ACL main bearings
Race prep'd crank - knife edged fillets, balanced, nitrided bearing faces, cryo treated
Custom steel crank girdle (replaces Z20LEH crank girdle and extends to block)
ARP main studs
VXR oil pump & pick up
Custom baffled sump

Intake, Exhaust, etc
Custom aluminium intake manifold with tuned length taper runners
Injector Dynamics 990cc injectors
Custom pulse tuned, ceramic coated exhaust manifold
3" stainless steel mandrel bent exhaust with 100cpi race cat
Custom PWR Intercooler with 2.5 inch pipe work
PWR Radiator with custom shroud & 2 Spal 10" puller fans
PWR Oil Cooler
Custom alloy airbox with Apexi air filter and alloy piping and inner guard CAI ducting
TTV Lightened CrMo flywheel with APR flywheel bolts
Modified 4 puck racing clutch with carbon friction material
Alloy underdrive pulley (to be replaced with a modified Evo 9 Fluidapmr pulley)
Reverie Carbon battery box with Odyssey PC680 moved to boot
Custom Alloy Radiator Expansion Tank

Tutbo Setups

Previous 1: Custom manifold (ceramic coated/heat wrapped),Garrett GT2860RS turbo with Tial turbine housing & billet compressor wheel, Tial MV-R external wastegate




Previous 2: Custom manifold (ceramic coated/heat wrapped), EFR6258.



Current: Custom manifold (ceramic coated/heat wrapped), EFR6758 with Agency Power Porsche Diverter Valve

[Aussiegman]

Originally Posted by seanathanq83

Yes but he did not do 450 at the wheels he Did 450 at the crank

The 6258 tops out at 44lb/min or approx 450hp and the 6758 at 49lb/min or around 500hp. These are at the crank numbers. You can add some extra for E85 so maybe 475hp and 525hp respectively.

Its simple physics, they only push so much air....

[Phatron]

^^ No one understands that here because dynojet, 1.2 CF dyno dynamics, and dynapack numbers put out crank hp type numbers.....people hit 400whp on vf turbos, 500whp on FP Greens.....

[seanathanq83]

oh i completley understand that, but just everyone went about with that other cobalt making 500+hp at the wheels.

[sumfoo1]

^^ does everyone do this cause i see '600whp' mustangs get beat down by 450whp wrxs here? I mean even similar trap mph.

Basically is it just the economics of selling hp in all cars that causes high reading dynos because shops know if they don't do it someone else will?

[Aussiegman]

A simple way to look at it is for every 10lb/min on pump gas, you get about 100hp at the crank.

40lb/min = 400hp
50lb/min = 500hp

You can add nitrous, methanol injection or nitromethane mixtures to the air/fuel mix to further oxygenate the intake charge, but the simplest rule is 10lb/min is approx 100hp.

[seanathanq83]

very true, even with e85 you cant go to far past that, could probably manage 50-75hp extra on say a 36lb 16g i think it also has other things that play in such as the efficiency of the engine, but for the most part yes 1lb/10hp not sure why some decide to run 1.20 correction, i know it helps with smoothing out some of the graphs, but imo i say keep them at 1.0, but i know even with that there are different ramp up rates, and differnt style dynos, which are different that when on the street, we have seen that many times with people spooling a few hundred rpms faster on the street, in the end if you happy then who cares what your numbers are, if you want to brag get some 1/4mile times

[sumfoo1]

That ghost line that comes straight down on the end of the BW maps is pretty much the dead end on the turbo. E85 will let you go past the normal map to that ghost line but i'd say that's about it.

[CJ68]

Jeff,

I'm a noob to force feeding an engine and I just crawled out from under my rock to find this and the GT/GTX comparison threads. You have the utmost respect from me for doing this and doing your best to stick to a purely scientific method for testing. Serious props to you. I've been doing a little self teaching for a while on how to pick the best turbo setup for the "feel" that I want my car to have and reading through both your threads has clarified a great deal of the facts and grey areas of decision making that I have been fuzzy on. Keep up the awesome work. With data you have collected so far you have me on the fence between the GTX3076 and the EFR7064 for my RSTi build. I can't wait to see more.

Hopefully there is a lot more data on the EFR's buy time I am ready to purchase. From an engineering stand point I am with you on preferring the EFR's build quality and attention to detail. That alone could swing me their way.

P.S. I want your job! I use my degree to design diver propulsion vehicles and I though that was cool but now I have serious career envy...

[Busby]

any eta on 8374 data? id love to see some hard information before i choose between the 7670 or 8374. Thanks and keep up the great work

[MrLith]

I wouldn't count on the EFR8374 data doing it justice anyway, as the motor is pretty mild I think? That is a turbo that will need decent headwork/cams and/or BIG boost to justify it so really I'd just be using the data as an gauge in regards to spool.

[Busby]

im not so sure, looking at the compressor maps and taking into account the way the gamma ti wheel performs on the 7670, i think the 8374 may be a lot more ej friendly than what a lot of people are thinking it is. i was toying with matchbot today and with as much real data i could stick into it. sub 30 psi the 8374 just plain looks more efficient. has anyone else toyed with the idea? id like to compare notes with some folks to get an idea if my math is correct.

[sumfoo1]

I'd like to see one of the little suckers on an ej compared to say an hta68. It would be nice if a bb turbo was giving that kind of response and power output on e85.

[Phatron]

Originally Posted by Busby

sub 30 psi the 8374 just plain looks more efficient. has anyone else toyed with the idea? id like to compare notes with some folks to get an idea if my math is correct.

why do you need matchbot to tell you that? just look at the comp map....yes its more efficient below 30psi, than above it.

[Busby]

thats what i meant, i just apparently didnt convey it properly.