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Old 02-23-2011, 01:18 PM   #126
crashtke
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Originally Posted by PERRINJeff View Post
One more for the night!
So is that installed Jeff or do you just have it propped up in there?
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:24 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by azn2nr View Post
so serious talk.

jeff, if you get a kit for these turbos put together before, lets say, april. can i just buy an uppipe and downpipe from you?
That time frame should be close but doable for sure. When we release this, i am sure we will also sell the new Tuner Kit we just started selling for the GT stuff. That way a customer can buy a few parts at a time and spread out the cost a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
I'm not aware of any such claims from Borg-Warner, but a lot of us are speculating that things are going to turn out that way.

They have similar compressor exducer diameters, so we're guessing that they will probably have similar peak power potential. But we won't actually know until Jeff shows us some numbers.
Since we can see the 7670 compressor map and how it compares to the GTX3076R I can already tell that the HP it will make will be very similar. If anything the EFR flows just slightly less and is 2-3 points less efficient everywhere. BUt none the less it supports the boost and air flow for a 2.5L running 30PSI to 7000 RPM. A different compressor wheel isn't going to spool quicker, its what drives the compressor wheel that determines when it will spool up. That is what i am excited to see!


Its funny i got about 4 PM's about twinscroll setups and if we are going to do them. I really think that even if twinscroll does work and spools the turbo quicker, i think we will leave that up to Full Race. I think their setup is super nice and its just not something i think we will do anytime soon.
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:33 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by crashtke View Post
So is that installed Jeff or do you just have it propped up in there?
Its more than just propped
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:37 PM   #129
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If I had the money I would, but really I can't see myself ever spending the money on a 'spensive nice turbo kit since I DD.
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Old 02-23-2011, 02:38 PM   #130
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Its more than just propped
Held by a body builder spider monkey?
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:10 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by PERRINJeff View Post
Since we can see the 7670 compressor map and how it compares to the GTX3076R I can already tell that the HP it will make will be very similar. If anything the EFR flows just slightly less and is 2-3 points less efficient everywhere. BUt none the less it supports the boost and air flow for a 2.5L running 30PSI to 7000 RPM. A different compressor wheel isn't going to spool quicker, its what drives the compressor wheel that determines when it will spool up. That is what i am excited to see!
First things first - awesome work comparing the GT3076R, GTX3076R and EFR7670 with equivalent housings etc - it really is truly invaluable information and its great having someone neutral doing all three. Thanks heaps for getting into it so quickly and sharing all the info!
In regards to the compressor design not having an effect on spool, the aerodynamics of the pump probably will actually have an effect on how boost comes on - the exducer is responsible for "throwing" the air out and as well as having an influence on the shape of the map, I am pretty sure it can build pressure faster. This is why different compressor trims with the same outer diameters can have quite different results, such as with 52 and 56trim GT2871Rs.

Looking at the compressor maps it'd be easy to assume that the GTX3076R would have same/more torque all the way through the rev range, and the fact that the EFR has a much bigger turbine it could be laggier - I have a sneaking suspicion that all will not be so simple, I quietly want the EFR to provide the better results but we'll find out soon
For the sake of sanity (/making sure I don't spend the next few days trolling this thread for results when they won't be coming) are you anticipating having this running in the next few days, or is it going to be a wee way away yet?

Cheers!
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:03 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by MrLith View Post
I quietly want the EFR to provide the better results but we'll find out soon
Me too.

With what looks to be a lot more attention to detail I'm hoping the ERF's spool quicker and are more efficient (in reality, where it counts, not just on the manufacturer's compressor maps) than the similarly sized GTX.
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:02 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyHAM

Me too.

With what looks to be a lot more attention to detail I'm hoping the ERF's spool quicker and are more efficient (in reality, where it counts, not just on the manufacturer's compressor maps) than the similarly sized GTX.
I think the efficiency of the turbo will ultimately come from the lower back pressure pre turbine due to larger wheels.

And guys larger isn't a bad thing it slows spool cause inconel is heavy gamma ti has half the mass density. And larger wheels give a larger area for the pressure to act on.
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:12 PM   #134
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I never said larger was a bad thing, just suggesting that some people may see it that way. The Garrett GT wheels are designed for gas to flow through them faster - ie, shallower blade angle and smaller wheel. Just a different way of skinning a cat, and means that the sizes aren't comparable.
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:29 PM   #135
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Theres so many attributes that an ICE takes on from differing turbochargers...you really can't compare them from the compressor maps alone--other than to know the general vicinity of power they are going to give you. All these 'billet wheel' turbos (with just the compressor swapped) seem to make great power, but usually at the cost of worse transient throttle response. Sure they can reach boost pressure at a lower rpm (at times) but that really doesn't tell the whole story. Initial spoolup on load from a low rpm is neither mutually inclusive or exclusive of throttle response but (predictably) has a much more complex relationship.

In my "bench seat" opinion the gtx3076 is approaching mismatch, although it may make more hp than the EFR, transient throttle response is probably going to suffer--I would actually like to see how a gt35r turbine with a gtx76 compressor would perform together.

Between having a better compressor/turbine size ratio and having significantly less rotational mass the transient throttle response on the EFR is going to be killer. Theres a reason that I think they sacrificed absolute flow at high pressure ratios...they even say so in that EFR primer! That turbo is going to spool so well it needs to have the surge line pushed to the left! I love having throttle response to dodge through traffic...yes, I am a prick.

In the end though we'll just have to wait for Jeff to tell us with his most excellent data and testing.
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:35 PM   #136
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Yep, the Borg Warner turbos are clearly designed to make faster cars - not better dyno queens.
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:44 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by MrLith View Post
are you anticipating having this running in the next few days, or is it going to be a wee way away yet?
even an estimate would be great so i wouldn't have to keep coming back only for more, "but we'll just have to see", shenanigans...
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:03 PM   #138
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Eta ???
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Old 02-24-2011, 03:48 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bariga
jeff your the man
you guys should be the first company to get this turbos instead of full-race, they not doing ****~~
Really...
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:25 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by raffi@full-race View Post
Really...
I think some people believe there is a direct correlation between the amount of posts a company has on a topic and the amount of work they are doing on that topic. Ya, it seems odd that may not be the case. Keep up the good work, I am extremely interested in seeing the results and purchasing one of the future kits. Thanks again, both Full Race and Perrin for the work.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:49 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raffi@full-race View Post
Really...
It's the interwebs...statements like that should be like water on a duck's back

I'm still game for being a Subaru tester of a 9180...seriously. ID2000 and water to air core are hanging out and waiting for the right turbo
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:35 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
It's the interwebs...statements like that should be like water on a duck's back

I'm still game for being a Subaru tester of a 9180...seriously. ID2000 and water to air core are hanging out and waiting for the right turbo
I remember you wondering about weights, geoff posted that the 7670 is 25.5lbs so i would imagine the 9180 to be right around 30lbs.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:53 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

It's the interwebs...statements like that should be like water on a duck's back

I'm still game for being a Subaru tester of a 9180...seriously. ID2000 and water to air core are hanging out and waiting for the right turbo
If I could have got my hands on one when I picked up the 8374 I would have!
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Old 02-24-2011, 10:28 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raffi@full-race View Post
Really...
Some people don't really get how the "real" world works and that Subaru aren't the center of everyone's universe.

That said, patiently waiting for my 7670 TS kit.
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Old 02-24-2011, 11:30 AM   #145
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I remember you wondering about weights, geoff posted that the 7670 is 25.5lbs so i would imagine the 9180 to be right around 30lbs.
Yeah, I think I was told 35-40 lbs which is significantly lighter than my comprable Holset (80 lbs of VGT turboed goodness)...but 80 lbs =

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
Some people don't really get how the "real" world works and that Subaru aren't the center of everyone's universe.
You mean there are cars outside of Subaru?!! You lie!!
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Old 02-24-2011, 11:43 AM   #146
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I'm just quietly waiting until 2014 when a 1989 is a 25year old car :-)
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Old 02-24-2011, 11:58 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by raffi@full-race View Post
Really...
I wouldn't worry about that comment too much. You guys have done a lot for the turbo community. Apparently Subarus are the only cars that are made.
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Old 02-24-2011, 06:48 PM   #148
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Apparently Subarus are the only cars that are made.
No just the most important, but I think most people around here are biased.
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:37 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by raffi@full-race View Post
Really...

i take it back, i had a bad day.


this is off your face book, so some one has the TS turbos the question is where they got them from





Last edited by Bariga; 02-25-2011 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:57 PM   #150
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those aint subarus

REALLY looking forward to these results!
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