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Old 02-17-2011, 11:15 PM   #1
darknightohio
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Default 2012 Civic and Civic Si let down..

2012 Honda Civic: No Really, it's the All-New 9th Generation Civic Sedan and Coupe Models



Quote:
We know many of you will find it hard to believe at a first look, but this here is the completely new, North American market, 2012 Honda Civic. Even though it may seem otherwise, the 9th generation Civic has been designed from the ground up and shares very few parts -if any- with its predecessor, well that is, aside from its styling personality which has gone from bland to blander...


Not surprisingly, Honda managed to remove all the styling elements that made the Detroit Motor Show Civic concepts somewhat worth a second look from the production models.

The design similarities with the 8th generation Civic are not only visible on the outside but continue inside as wells with the dashboard styling and the near identical layout.

Quote:
The 2012 Civic lineup includes a sedan and a coupe with a conventional 1.8-liter gasoline engine, a new "HF" high fuel economy version with the same 1.8-liter unit, two sporty "Si" performance versions, along with one hybrid and a natural gas alternative-fuel variant.

Starting with the all-new Civic HF, it is powered by a 1.8-liter i-VTEC engine delivering 140HP and an estimated fuel economy of 41 mpg on the highway.

The most fuel efficient model of the range is of course the Hybrid, which will be outfitted for the first time with a lithium-ion battery and a larger 1.5-liter i-VTEC engine producing a combined 110HP. Honda said the Civic Hybrid is expected to achieve an EPA-estimated city/highway combined fuel economy of 45 mpg, an improvement of 4 mpg compared to the 2011MY Civic hybrid.

Both the Civic HF and Civic Hybrid models are equipped with aerodynamic components for improved efficiency as well as with the Honda ECO Assist system.

The regular Civic Sedan and Coupe models get the 140HP 1.8-liter i-VTEC (but not the aero improvements) and are expected to return an EPA-estimated fuel economy of 39 mpg on the highway, an improvement of 3 mpg over the current model. The Civic Natural Gas model is anticipated to earn a 7 percent improvement in fuel economy compared to the current version.

Finally, the sportiest model of the lot is the Si which get a larger and more powerful 2.4-liter engine as well as a new 6-speed manual transmission. Honda said it the new engine will deliver 200 horsepower with 170 ft-lb of torque. According to the company, the Si models are anticipated to achieve an EPA-estimated highway fuel economy of 31 mpg; an increase of 2 mpg when compared to the current model.

"The Civic is the only model in the industry that can deliver on all fronts – fuel economy, sporty performance, smart packaging, alternative fuel and long-term value," said John Mendel, executive vice president of sales for American Honda Motor Co.,Inc. "For the ninth-generation Civic, we are emphasizing improved fuel economy across the board, from the hybrid sedan to the sporty Si model."

Honda will release more information on the new 2012 Civic closer to the on-sale date, which is expected this Spring.
2012 HONDA CIVIC SPECS


Civic HF, Sedan, Coupe and Natural Gas Specifications

•140 horsepower, 1.8-liter i-VTEC™ 4-cylinder engine
•5-speed automatic transmission
•ECO Assist technology
•EPA-estimated Civic HF highway fuel economy: 41 mpg
•EPA-estimated Civic Sedan and Civic Coupe highway fuel economy: 39 mpg
Civic Hybrid Specifications

•110 horsepower, 1.5-liter i-VTEC™ 4-cylinder engine (combined gasoline + electric)
•Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT)
•Lithium-ion battery
•ECO Assist technology
•EPA-estimated Civic Hybrid city/highway combined fuel economy: 45 mpg
Civic Si Specifications

•200 horsepower and 170 lb-ft, 2.4-liter i-VTEC™ 4-cylinder engine
•6-speed manual transmission
•EPA-estimated Civic Si highway fuel economy: 31 mpg



















http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2011/02...t-all-new.html
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:24 PM   #2
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honda died in my eyes when they quit making the s2k. they are terribly too focused on boring, high mpg builds.

style wise, the 'rear' of the new civic is ok, the rest is terrible. interior wise, I like that the console and the controls are all focused on the driver
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:28 PM   #3
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Not impressed at all. Honda really needs type-R in the line up to spice things up.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:33 PM   #4
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Thank goodness for the Hyundai Elantra.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:38 PM   #5
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Depressing. Where is Honda going with their crap designs. Looks they need to fire some people and get fresh talent.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:52 PM   #6
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Who is to say that this isn't the result of "fresh talent."

Newer doesn't necessarily equal better.

Strangely, it looks like they took a bit of a page from Mitsubishi Eclipse, in the side window graphic area. Not a great example to pull from, although that is one of the lesser offensive parts of the Eclipse.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:55 PM   #7
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You must be an idiot to buy this car over the Elantra, Cruze or Focus.

Hell, I'll take the Corolla over this. It's a step back from the current one.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:57 PM   #8
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Kia Forte kicks this thing where it hurts.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:02 AM   #9
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eh....
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
You must be an idiot to buy this car over the Elantra, Cruze or Focus.
This. The elantra is fantastic outside, the cruze fantastic inside, and the Focus will be the sportiest of the bunch.

And the Impreza might also end up on this list... but you've got hold out a bit longer for it.
Quote:
Hell, I'll take the Corolla over this. It's a step back from the current one.
Uh, no, the Corolla is unbelievably out-dated now. Toyota is in even worse shape design wise at this point.
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:00 AM   #11
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Vs



Spot the differences

Gear selector has been cheaped out/Throttle/cup holder...
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Old 02-18-2011, 06:35 AM   #12
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It almost seems like someone at Honda has been talking to someone at VW.
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Old 02-18-2011, 06:55 AM   #13
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Honda is officially down the drain. The rear looks like the Prius (1st gen), and what is up with the mini window in front.

And no one bring up the "Subaru owners shouldn't critique other cars" excuse. Subaru always made ugly awkward looking cars. Just didn't expect that from Honda.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:02 AM   #14
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Honda used to make a great car, im sure they still do. The styling is just....a little different, and almost boring compared to the way it used to be. Maybe it will change for the better in years to come.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:48 AM   #15
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Honda takes another step towards mediocrity...
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:01 AM   #16
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I'm glad they're keeping the 2 tier instruments. The average driver doesn't care about the tach and doesn't know what it's for anyway.. so might as well put all of the useful gauges closer to their line of sight. The loss of the floor-hinged accelerator pedal is sad... but probably done to remove one more factor from the unintended acceleration debacle. Meh..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entaille View Post
interior wise, I like that the console and the controls are all focused on the driver
It's a good thing they did, too. If you're still buying a Civic in this day and age it probably means you don't have any friends to talk you out of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4wdwrx View Post
Honda is officially down the drain. The rear looks like the Prius (1st gen), and what is up with the mini window in front.
The mini window is what happens when you rake the windshield so much it extends over the front wheels. Since the doors can't extend into the wheel wells the only way to have a window that rolls down is to section it off into that little minivan A-pillar window.
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:50 AM   #17
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**** you Honda. **** you.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:11 AM   #18
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In terms of looks, it's a so-so. Refresh of the 8th gen had a better nose, I like this tail better. It doesn't have the styling flair of the Elantra, but I don't really give a crap about that. Styling is pretty much dead at the bottom of my list when I am buying a car.

I'm probably one of the few that's glad they didn't monkey too much with the interior (I hope they shorten the throws on the manual though, holy crap they're too long in the Gen 8). The 2 tier instruments are actually really nice when you live with them every day. The steering wheel is great (rim diameter is nice, much better than the skinny wheel in my wife's Mazda 3), I like that the center cluster is simple and oriented towards the driver. Driving position overall was good, and should be again.

Seats look like a step back, though. Civic seats are already undistinguished (Mazda's are much better), and it looks like they're shifting even more towards sofas for fat 'Murrican butts. Which is a shame, but 'Murricans are getting fatter, so I blame all you fatties for wanting another Big Mac, and not Honda for building a car you can get your fat butt into.

I suspect the 9th gen will sell like gangbusters for the same reason the 8th gen did despite the complaints about the look and interior. It will be screwed together as well as or better than its competitors. It will be less boring to drive than a Toyota, but a tad more comfortable than a Mazda. It will skimp on the stuff the average idiot doesn't care about to keep certain well-engineered bits in place despite a very strong yen and a weak dollar.

And the Si will be a fun, tossable toy just like it has always been. It will be uncompetitive on power, it will not have the best outright handling, but it will be rev happy, its shifter and clutch will be wonderful, and it will be plenty tossable for back road shenanigans, which is what Honda aimed it for, not the drag strip or the track.

Am I a Honda apologist? Not really. I would like to see a return to the engineering excellence of the 80s and the 90s. But unfortunately the economic landscape has changed, the car landscape has changed, the average American has gotten dumber, and Honda has staked out a spot near enough the middle of the road that it can move volume, while actually making one of the better compromises between all factors in the class.

It will not be a class leader in any one area, but it will be close enough in enough ways that people will buy into the compromise. Which is pretty much what everyone does when they buy economy cars in the first place. The question then becomes which compromises are they willing to live with.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:12 AM   #19
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It let NASIOC down but let America up... Civic is Honda's cash cow.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:56 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omophorus View Post
In terms of looks, it's a so-so. Refresh of the 8th gen had a better nose, I like this tail better. It doesn't have the styling flair of the Elantra, but I don't really give a crap about that. Styling is pretty much dead at the bottom of my list when I am buying a car.

I'm probably one of the few that's glad they didn't monkey too much with the interior (I hope they shorten the throws on the manual though, holy crap they're too long in the Gen 8). The 2 tier instruments are actually really nice when you live with them every day. The steering wheel is great (rim diameter is nice, much better than the skinny wheel in my wife's Mazda 3), I like that the center cluster is simple and oriented towards the driver. Driving position overall was good, and should be again.

Seats look like a step back, though. Civic seats are already undistinguished (Mazda's are much better), and it looks like they're shifting even more towards sofas for fat 'Murrican butts. Which is a shame, but 'Murricans are getting fatter, so I blame all you fatties for wanting another Big Mac, and not Honda for building a car you can get your fat butt into.

I suspect the 9th gen will sell like gangbusters for the same reason the 8th gen did despite the complaints about the look and interior. It will be screwed together as well as or better than its competitors. It will be less boring to drive than a Toyota, but a tad more comfortable than a Mazda. It will skimp on the stuff the average idiot doesn't care about to keep certain well-engineered bits in place despite a very strong yen and a weak dollar.

And the Si will be a fun, tossable toy just like it has always been. It will be uncompetitive on power, it will not have the best outright handling, but it will be rev happy, its shifter and clutch will be wonderful, and it will be plenty tossable for back road shenanigans, which is what Honda aimed it for, not the drag strip or the track.

Am I a Honda apologist? Not really. I would like to see a return to the engineering excellence of the 80s and the 90s. But unfortunately the economic landscape has changed, the car landscape has changed, the average American has gotten dumber, and Honda has staked out a spot near enough the middle of the road that it can move volume, while actually making one of the better compromises between all factors in the class.

It will not be a class leader in any one area, but it will be close enough in enough ways that people will buy into the compromise. Which is pretty much what everyone does when they buy economy cars in the first place. The question then becomes which compromises are they willing to live with.
Dead-on post. The car is a progression of the current one, which is an economy car sold to the masses. What the heck were people expecting? Crazy new styling........then everyone would complain about that. The looks clean and uncluttered. If the Si had all sorts of crap or outrageous design elements, then people would cry "rice" or say it was ugly, or that it looked faster than it was. The Si coupe looks close to the old Acura RSX, which was a good looking small car.

The Civic is an economy car, and the Si is a sportier version of that economy car. If people are looking for an STi or an NSX, that is not what the car is meant to be, that is not what Honda is trying to make. Would I have prefered the car to have 240hp+? Sure, but that was not a realistic expectation. That is not how Honda does things, now or ever. They have never made the Si with any other vehicles in their sights, as a direct competitor to other models out there. They just do what they are going to do, for better or worse. Am I excited about the new model? Truthfully, no I am not. Will I look at a different car the next time I am looking around for a new ride? Yes (patiently waiting for the new Ford Focus St to get a few production cycles under its belt.........). But there are plenty of people out there looking for what the regular Civic and the Si variant offer, and the cars will sell.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:20 AM   #21
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I was hoping for less weight, a new engine family, or a fresh exterior styling direction. At least one of those. And I got none of the above.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:37 AM   #22
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The HF version rated at 41 mpg highway is the most (only) impressive thing about the new Civic.

If you are looking for a reliable vehicle to get from point A to point B with no drama or excitement but with excellent reliability and mileage it is right at the top of the list.

Imagine how many people commute 40 or more miles per day. Multiply that the efficiency of 40 mpg over whatever they are presently driving and it is pretty easy to see how much $$$ are to be saved by being boring and bland and efficient.
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:03 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
This. The elantra is fantastic outside, the cruze fantastic inside, and the Focus will be the sportiest of the bunch.

And the Impreza might also end up on this list... but you've got hold out a bit longer for it.

Uh, no, the Corolla is unbelievably out-dated now. Toyota is in even worse shape design wise at this point.
I lived with a Matrix rental for a month. Personally, I liked the car and the Dual VVTi 1.8 is head and shoulders above the R18 SOHC in the Civic IMHO.
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:11 AM   #24
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Quote:
Omophorus
Quote:
SilverSubaab
I'm with these two ^



Does the new Civic set my heart on fire? .... No


Do I think it'll sell well in the Economy car segment? ....Yes
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:13 AM   #25
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What a shame. I don't think it's bad looking, but it's not good looking, either.

Soichiro would be displeased, I think. No excitement at that place, anymore.
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