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Old 02-18-2011, 09:01 AM   #1
mhoward1
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Default Return of the Mustang Turbo (SVO?)

There has been some speculation for a while that Ford's EcoBoost line of turbocharged engines would eventually find its way under the hood of the Ford Mustang. Well we now have confirmation that it's going to happen.

Ford chairman Bill Ford Jr. spoke to an audience at Princeton last night and luckily he invited a few questions. A Jalopnik reader was on hand and asked the chairman if Ford had plans to offer an EcoBoost engine in the Mustang. Bill Ford Jr. confirmed that an EcoBoost engine will be offered in the Mustang, but he stopped short of giving any other details.

So now we get to speculate if Ford is going to offer its turbocharged 3.5L V6 or the smaller 2.0L four-cylinder. Just in case you're wondering if a Mustang has ever been offered with a turbocharged engine, in 1984 Ford produced the Mustang SVO. The Mustang SVO was powered by a turbocharged 2.3L that put out 175 horsepower.

Stay tuned...

http://jalopnik.com/#!exclusive/5762126
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:13 AM   #2
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I wonder if they will be holding off until the next redesign for this, when the Mustang will be a smaller design for the global market
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:32 AM   #3
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marketing has done such a good job over the last 15 years to convince us that bigger numbers and more size is always better.

They have to overcome a lot of conditioning that they spent a lot of time building into us.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:47 AM   #4
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Well, yes and no. The V6 got a LOT of press in the Lightning lap. It showed that the less weight and good balance really went a long ways
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:47 AM   #5
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That is tricky.

The car isn't small and light enough to really be compelling with a turbo 4. It would be on-boost almost all the time, which would suck down the fuel, unless the car is Cobra R levels of spartan. SVO doesn't belong on the fuel economy point, it should be a performance car. An Ecoboost 4 would not necessarily be a better car than the Ti-VCT 3.7 V6, with 305+ horsepower and 30+ MPG at cruise.

The Twin-Turbo V6 is a good engine, and quite capable, but somewhat redundant with the 5.0 GT engine.

That is Deja-vu.

The 84-86 SVO didn't sell well because it was more expensive than the 5.0 GT of the same years. The SVO had similar weight, similar power, and more standard equipment, and a higher price, so the simpler carbureted V8, and for 86, the Port Fuel Injected V8 were more popular sellers, as the mustang fans figured they knew how to work on them moreso than the more sophisticated turbo SVO. The SVO had bigger brakes, 5-bolt hubs, and other improvements that did make it a better car.

If they do a new SVO, they have to make it different than the GT.

If they want to do an SVO with the twin turbo V6... they need to go all out.
1: it needs to be different looking. The SVO was more aerodynamic, and debuted composite flush-fit headlamps for Ford, before the T-bird and 87+ mustang got them. The S-197 could use some aero upgrades to make it less bullish and blunt on the front, and less ugly on the back.

2: it needs to be a handling car. The SVO had brake, suspension and driveline upgrades that were unique to the car, until the 93 Cobra came out with some of them again later.
The S197 'SVO' should have fully independent suspension, and be set up as a handling and traction car, not as an out-right stop-light sledgehammer with engine power.

3: It needs to be more modern than retro. It needs to look forward, instead of re-living the 40-50 year old past. Even if it is the one trim line of mustang that does that, and the rest (GT, V6, Boss302, Shelby GT500) still do the retro thing.

Those things might separate the SVO from the rest of the herd, and sell on it's own merits without being redundant with the 5.0 GT.

While I am a boxer fanatic now... I used to be a HUGE Mustang fanatic. HUGE.
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:32 PM   #6
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Ah, but who remembers the earlier '79-'81 non-SVO turbocharged Mustang? IIRC, it was a carburated 2.3 4cyl. It's sales numbers were even more horrid than the SVOs.

I think a Ecoboost V6 Mustang would become an overnight tuner sensation. Especially if it can shave a few hundred pounds off a Coyote based GT.
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:38 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by RallyColtTurbo View Post
I think a Ecoboost V6 Mustang would become an overnight tuner sensation. Especially if it can shave a few hundred pounds off a Coyote based GT.
That's the problem though - a 3.5 Ecoboost would cannabalize too many sales from the 5.0.

It's going to be interesting to see what direction Ford heads with this.
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:42 PM   #8
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I think a Ecoboost V6 Mustang would become an overnight tuner sensation. Especially if it can shave a few hundred pounds off a Coyote based GT.
I do too. But....... I have a sinking feeling they'll put the 4cyl Eco in it.
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:50 PM   #9
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That's the problem though - a 3.5 Ecoboost would cannabalize too many sales from the 5.0.
To play devils advocate here. Would a 4cyl Eco mustang take sales away from the smaller car segment then? If you consider the people who buy the Fiesta st & focus st for the performance aspect.
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:20 PM   #10
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To play devils advocate here. Would a 4cyl Eco mustang take sales away from the smaller car segment then? If you consider the people who buy the Fiesta st & focus st for the performance aspect.
I don't think so... 2-door RWD coupe versus Fiesta/Focus FWD hatch/sedan is different enough. Probe and Mustang sold together...

I think a turbo 4 is going to be the option. Sell it in places where there are displacement taxes, eek out a little more fuel economy...

Ford is going to use the turbo 4 in much heavier vehicles to boot. Isn't the Explorer at well over 4000 pounds getting it?
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:29 PM   #11
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I completely agree with Hip on this one. An SVO is a tough sell. Those initials have a lot of history, and to pay homage to it, I am not sure what Fords plan is going to be. You have so many different levels of performance mustangs, I am not sure there is room for another one.
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:42 PM   #12
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the only real option is the v6 turbo, and the only way to do that is to no longer sell the v8. it will be a huge gamble on their part, but they could probably weather 2 or 3 years without a v8, then if the v6 flopped as the new GT, you have a HUGE marketing campaign reintroducing the v8...

basically, you want a mustang GT, it will be V6 turbo, no more V8.
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:49 PM   #13
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The Coyote 5.0L is so good I don't see the point of a TTV6 and the V6 is so good I don't see the point of a turbo I4.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:15 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
I wonder if they will be holding off until the next redesign for this, when the Mustang will be a smaller design for the global market
That would be cool. If would be even cooler if they made sedan and wagon Faclons using the platform. Finally, a small(ish) RWD car that doesn't have a premium price.
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:02 PM   #15
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Ah, but who remembers the earlier '79-'81 non-SVO turbocharged Mustang? IIRC, it was a carburated 2.3 4cyl. It's sales numbers were even more horrid than the SVOs.
I do. They had a few variations of them including a pace car and a 'cobra' model. There was also a turbo-4 Mercury Capri sister car.

Remember those horrid "TRX" wheels, to which could be mounted Michelin TRX 220 55VR 390 metric tires?

*******

The Mustang SVO came with Koni struts & shocks from the factory.
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:20 PM   #16
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I think I still have a set of those TRX wheels in storage. I never could find those specific michelin TRX tires for them that didn't cost a small fortune. I think Ferrari 308 and a couple of other euro cars used that diameter, too, and Michelin was basically the only option, so they charged $$$$ and never really upgraded the tires after that sizing went out of favor for 16" and 17" tires directly. 16.5 didn't really succeed.

They are probably worth more as scrap aluminum now...

I believe the '79 Pace car, and the early 80's Mustang cobra (the pace car equipment package with different paint and graphics for later years), and the Capri BlackCat, WhiteCat, and RedCat (all the same car, painted in the respective colors with gold pinstripes and the early 80's mercury cat head logo) ...were all offered as either malaise-era-strangled V8, or 2.3 Turbo 4. The turbo 4 was actually the healthier engine and made the chassis better balanced by not being so front-heavy, but more complex. Up until about 83 or so, as the 302 came back from it's 70's era coma, and started to out-power the turbo 4 again.

By 84/85 the V8 was getting some steam again, and the new angular F-bodys were heating up the market quarrel between GM and Ford, while Chrysler floundered and tried to make everything based on the FWD K-car. And the Reagan rebound economy brought the buyers out from under the Carter-era misery index, and they bought fun cars again. The 5.0 Mustang became a celebrity in that market.

The turbo 4 didn't quite keep up, in terms of perception or power potential, but it wasn't bad. The SVO, T-bird TurboCoupe, XR4Ti, Cougar XR7 used the engine, too. That engine without a turbo lasted in the Ranger pickup truck until relatively recently, and got dual-plug heads and such. I think it may have still been SOHC, though.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 02-18-2011 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:48 PM   #17
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TT V8 to replace GT500..
coyote has room to grow by adding DI if Ford so chooses..
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:55 PM   #18
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If they do a new SVO, they have to make it different than the GT.
Bring back the LX!

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Old 02-18-2011, 06:01 PM   #19
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Oh, SVO replace GT500, never thought about that.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:34 PM   #20
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I don't think they have to replace the V8 or V6 if they add the TTV6. It will slot nicely between the 2 on the horsepower front.
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:19 PM   #21
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I don't think they have to replace the V8 or V6 if they add the TTV6. It will slot nicely between the 2 on the horsepower front.

Yip. A nice MT TTV6 would be pre-ty, pre-ty, pre-ty sweet for those of us who don't need a V8 to feel manly, and who don't want people to think our car is a rental (V6).
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:28 AM   #22
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Yip. A nice MT TTV6 would be pre-ty, pre-ty, pre-ty sweet for those of us who don't need a V8 to feel manly, and who don't want people to think our car is a rental (V6).
I'd rather have a simpler car with less heat or reliability issues, with an NA V8 than a TT V6, if I were going to drive it often.

A shorter engine helps in a transverse application like Taurus SHO.

I hope the EcoBoost V6 is a long-term reliable engine... but if something goes wrong with a turbo engine, it tends to go wrong BIGGER.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:12 AM   #23
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........ and who don't want people to think our car is a rental (V6).
Normally, I'd get a chuckle out of this because it's generally true. However the last few rental cars I've gotten have been a 5.0 GT, a 4.6 Genesis, and an Ecoboost Flex.

All I did was ask for "Something fun to drive" and got a 5.0 GT and a few weeks later the V8 Genesis. I asked for a "nice SUV with Blue-tooth" and got the Flex.

Avis has a very random and diverse fleet compared to most, I guess.
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:39 AM   #24
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Yip. A nice MT TTV6 would be pre-ty, pre-ty, pre-ty sweet for those of us who don't need a V8 to feel manly, and who don't want people to think our car is a rental (V6).
Hell, they already do it with the F150, right? And from what I've always known, the F150 offerings (sans the top of the line engine (used to be the 5.4, now the 6.2)) mimic the Mustangs, and vice versa.
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Old 02-19-2011, 10:42 AM   #25
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the only real option is the v6 turbo, and the only way to do that is to no longer sell the v8. it will be a huge gamble on their part, but they could probably weather 2 or 3 years without a v8, then if the v6 flopped as the new GT, you have a HUGE marketing campaign reintroducing the v8...

basically, you want a mustang GT, it will be V6 turbo, no more V8.
I really don't see that happening. While the Mustang isn't the only vehicle that will be using the 5.0, the engine was primarily designed for it. Ford didn't spend all of that time and money R&Ding an engine only to **** can it a couple years later.

Not to mention the 5.0 isn't anywhere near the limits of its capabilities - DI is still very much a possibility as well as various types of FI. Perhaps we'll see a hotter version of the 5.0 GT at some point with 450ish+ hp and then a yet to be named Ecoboost model slotted in with 360ish hp.
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