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Old 02-25-2011, 08:54 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Porsche Cayman R/ Driven

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What is it?

If youre expecting the Cayman R to represent a transformation relative to the Cayman S, look away. The most revealing stat about the R is not its extra power, or lower weight, but the difference in price. The cost of changing the badge of your Cayman from S to R is 4124, less than a set of ceramic brakes.

See the test pics of the Porsche Cayman R in action

Whats it like?

Of course its not as simple as that. For while that extra outlay adds another 10bhp and loses 54kg, so must you pay extra for the air-conditioning and radio that are standard in the S. Even so when you tot up all the changes, including aluminium doors, a limited slip differential, new front and rear aero package, sports seats and the lightest wheels fitted to any Porsche, its clear that, even at 51,731, the Cayman R represents proper value.

Interesting too that this is the first Cayman with a superior power to weight ratio than a 911. The R has a 10bhp/tonne advantage over a Carrera (and an better torque to weight advantage) so its apparently slower 0-62mph time is either due to the 911s traction advantage or a bit of strategic positioning. In the real world the Cayman R is clearly the quicker car.

To drive it feels as youd imagine - slightly but significantly sharper than the S, itself a supersonically able and engaging performer. To be honest you feel the weight saving and performance gain less than the suspension mods: its 22mm lower with firmer springs and dampers and comes with 40 per cent more downforce on the rear axle and 15 per cent up front.
So it corners flatter and faster with no loss of that sublime Cayman steering feel. Theres more understeer in slower corners than I remember almost certainly a function of the differential but its easily cancelled with a lift and worth it for the phenomenal traction it provides.

Should I buy one?

The Cayman R will disappoint only if youre expecting it to be a game changer or cut price GT3. Though it would be nice to append those titles to it, it is nothing of the sort. It is merely the best Cayman yet, which is all the praise it, or you, should need.
Porsche Cayman R

Price: 51,731; Top speed: 175mph; 0-62mph: 5.0sec; Economy: 29.1mpg; Co2: 228g/km; Kerb weight: 1295kg; Engine type: 6cyls, 3436cc; Power: 325bhp at 7400rpm; Torque: 273lb ft at 4750rpm; Gearbox: six speed manual
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...-Coupe/255602/

















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Old 02-25-2011, 09:12 AM   #2
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I really love this car, but as long as I am dreaming, I may as well have a GT3
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:52 AM   #3
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This is like my ideal sports car. I can't wait to drive one. I wonder if I'd like it more than the zo6 since they will probably be priced about the same.
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:55 AM   #4
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No A/C on the Boxster Spyder makes sense. No A/C on a closed-roof coupe doesn't, IMO.
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:17 AM   #5
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This is a very nice looking car in person.
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:20 AM   #6
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this car is pointless until it has GT3-level power. Porsche continues to rob its sucker loyalists because no one out there can do better.
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:36 AM   #7
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this car is pointless until it has GT3-level power. Porsche continues to rob its sucker loyalists because no one out there can do better.
I am going to go on a limb here and hope you don't run a company. Market a product that undercuts the price and out-performs your other already-profitable product?

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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
No A/C on the Boxster Spyder makes sense. No A/C on a closed-roof coupe doesn't, IMO.
I don't get you at all. Are you really arguing the merits of A/C on a decontented, top-of-the-line, weight-saving"GT3-style" Cayman? I can't believe the Prius doesn't come with AWD either - it makes no sense.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:37 PM   #8
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I don't get you at all. Are you really arguing the merits of A/C on a decontented, top-of-the-line, weight-saving"GT3-style" Cayman? I can't believe the Prius doesn't come with AWD either - it makes no sense.
These cars are going to be driven on the street 99% of the time, agreed? No A/C on a convertible that has such an abbreviated top that it might as well not have one isn't a problem because, well, you're in the breeze, no?

All no A/C on the Cayman R is going to achieve is bro-tastic admiration from other dudes in one's Porsche Owner's Club and frustration when driving on the street in regular clothes on a hot day.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:42 PM   #9
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I wouldn't be surprised if you can add A/C as an option. This is Porsche, after all, the company with the laundry list of options, all priced ridiculously high of course.

Great car, though. Hate that green color, but great car.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:53 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
These cars are going to be driven on the street 99% of the time, agreed? No A/C on a convertible that has such an abbreviated top that it might as well not have one isn't a problem because, well, you're in the breeze, no?

All no A/C on the Cayman R is going to achieve is bro-tastic admiration from other dudes in one's Porsche Owner's Club and frustration when driving on the street in regular clothes on a hot day.
Alright, bro. It's called weight savings. De-contented means de-contented. A/C is one of those things that not every needs. The windows still roll down, from what I hear.
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:03 PM   #11
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Porsche has attempted to replace the rear-engine layout of the 911 in the past, but they've failed to design anything as compelling as the 911 body (until the Cayman, which admittedly is basically a derivative of the 911). After giving up and putting all their performance eggs in the 911 basket when they developed the 996 chassis, they are now overly reluctant to transfer their top performance to the chassis that deserves it. Ferrari made the transition decades ago. Porsche needs to follow suit. In fairness, Porsche has supposedly been hugely profitable in the last decade, but I've read that much of that profit is the result of the Cayenne and not the 911.

also, who said anything about undercutting on price?
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:17 PM   #12
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I only use A/C when my wife is with me.

I was dumb enough to buy an STi without a radio back in 2003, I am dumb enough to buy a Porsche without A/C and radio today. I just don't have the money.
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:29 PM   #13
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I only use A/C when my wife is with me.
it sure gets hot in there when shes in the car eh?
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Old 02-25-2011, 02:19 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by justincredible View Post
I was dumb enough to buy an STi without a radio back in 2003, I am dumb enough to buy a Porsche without A/C and radio today. I just don't have the money.

I loled.
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Old 02-25-2011, 02:54 PM   #15
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That's not dumb, that's smart. Who listens to the radio anymore?
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Old 02-25-2011, 02:54 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I really love this car, but as long as I am dreaming, I may as well have a GT3
I read the article in the Excellence magazine on the news stands now.

They compared the Boxster Spyder with the GT3 RS.

The interesting bit is that they weren't drastically dissimilar.

But they did say that although the GT3 RS was the ultimate expression of Porsche sports cars, the Spyder was easier to drive, and more versatile, and could be driven calmly as well. The GT3 was pretty much angry and on-edge all the time, no calm driving allowed.

A Cayman R or Boxster Spyder with a 3.8 liter 405hp engine transplant could very well be my ultimate preference. I am not a track racer, and I would mostly drive it on the road, and the greater user-freindliness of the 987 chassis would be better for me. If I were going for a 997, I would want an all-season Grand Tourer, more like a C4S, or Turbo.

I kind of wish Subaru were contemplating a half-price knock-off of the Cayman/Boxster, if they are intent on going with RWD for a subaru-powered sports car. Without AWD, and without practicality, it might as well be aft-mid-engined. Much more SW20 MR2 than AE86 Corolla.
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Old 02-25-2011, 02:57 PM   #17
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Just because VW owns Porsche doesn't mean they should paint their press car in "New-Beetle-puke-green"

WhiteKnight would take a Boxter Spyder or save for a GT3
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Old 02-25-2011, 03:00 PM   #18
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BTW, radio, AC, and all of that stuff IS optional to add back on, just as it is with the Boxster Spyder.

This isn't replacing the Cayman S, or Boxster S, you guys realize, right?

You can option the Cayman R or Boxster Spyder up. You cannot option a Boxster S or Cayman S DOWN. AC, stereo, and all that stuff is standard equipment, and none of the aluminum bits are installed.

Subaru has their Spec C in Japan, right, with competition equipment, and no amenities... it is kind of like that. It doesn't replace the normal specifcation, or the Spec A, or the Limited package with leather, NAV and BBS wheels, or what-not.

Porsche could teach Subaru a lesson on offering at least SOME product diversity, even if they don't take it to Porsche's level of every little bit and piece having a price tag.

Offer people the choices to get what they want. Some will pay the money to get just exactly what they want beyond the standard configuration. With Porsche, it isn't their-way, or the highway... they let you configure their products... and you pay for it, perhaps a bit too much, even. I am sure Porsche makes some $$$ on custom techquipment configurations.
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Old 02-25-2011, 03:32 PM   #19
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I'd love to have one of these units, but not before an original air-cooled 911 that is -preferrably a speedster model!
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:26 PM   #20
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It's a bit of a shame that Germanic arrogance and ego permanently hobbles the Boxster and Cayman.

The 911 is a great car, and with over 40 years of continuous engineering behind it, it damn well ought to be.

That said, the same level of engineering applied to a mid-engined platform (coughCarreraGTcoughcough) could yield even better results.

Shame they won't put a multi-link setup out back (or ditch the Mac struts up front... also applies to the 911), didn't offer an LSD until recently, and still won't put the biggest engines into it.

The current Cayman is already a ton of fun on the road, especially twisty back roads, but with a bit more go and a bit more handle, it would be brain-meltingly awesome.
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:40 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Omophorus View Post
It's a bit of a shame that Germanic arrogance and ego permanently hobbles the Boxster and Cayman.
It has nothing to do with being German, and everythign to do with the companies philosophy - the 911 is the icon of the Porsche brand and with the exception of limited edition supercars (Carrera GT, 918, ect...) Porsche has stated time and time again that they will not allow inferior models (price-wise that is) to out-perform their brand icon.

I don't know why you would try to insinuate this is because of nationality?

If/when the take-over by VW is complete, this (911 being the brand icon top performer) may change - but only time will tell on that front.
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:11 PM   #22
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It has nothing to do with being German, and everythign to do with the companies philosophy - the 911 is the icon of the Porsche brand and with the exception of limited edition supercars (Carrera GT, 918, ect...) Porsche has stated time and time again that they will not allow inferior models (price-wise that is) to out-perform their brand icon.

I don't know why you would try to insinuate this is because of nationality?

If/when the take-over by VW is complete, this (911 being the brand icon top performer) may change - but only time will tell on that front.
A good bit of my heritage is Germanic, so I'm not just insinuating something based on someone else's nationality.

But yes. German culture, in my experience, is not one that encourages admitting to making mistakes or changing course from a stated direction. Many Asian (most notably Japanese and Chinese) cultures are similar - when someone is publicly apologizing for a mistake, it must've been utterly catastrophic or no mention would've been made.

And Porsche is just about the most hard-headed of the Germanic lot.

The 911 is a great car, but considering how the best selling Porsches are the Panamera and the Cayenne, people buy Porsche for the name and the engineering first and foremost. It is iconic of the brand, but most of the people going into the showrooms aren't drawn there by 911s. They're drawn there by the name the 911 established over the last 40 years.

And, if I were to make a guess, if Porsche made a sports car that wasn't a 911, but was faster than a 911 (and not just a limited run hypercar like the Carrera GT), the 911 purists and old fart brand loyalists would kick up an almighty stink. But the vast masses of cash cows buying SUVs and sedans to keep the coffers full wouldn't so much as notice.

So to sum up, yes, I am insinuating that other cars with the capacity to surpass the 911 being hobbled by Porsche is an undesirable trait, and at least partially rooted in Germanic culture.
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:54 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omophorus View Post
A good bit of my heritage is Germanic, so I'm not just insinuating something based on someone else's nationality.

But yes. German culture, in my experience, is not one that encourages admitting to making mistakes or changing course from a stated direction. Many Asian (most notably Japanese and Chinese) cultures are similar - when someone is publicly apologizing for a mistake, it must've been utterly catastrophic or no mention would've been made.

And Porsche is just about the most hard-headed of the Germanic lot.

The 911 is a great car, but considering how the best selling Porsches are the Panamera and the Cayenne, people buy Porsche for the name and the engineering first and foremost. It is iconic of the brand, but most of the people going into the showrooms aren't drawn there by 911s. They're drawn there by the name the 911 established over the last 40 years.

And, if I were to make a guess, if Porsche made a sports car that wasn't a 911, but was faster than a 911 (and not just a limited run hypercar like the Carrera GT), the 911 purists and old fart brand loyalists would kick up an almighty stink. But the vast masses of cash cows buying SUVs and sedans to keep the coffers full wouldn't so much as notice.

So to sum up, yes, I am insinuating that other cars with the capacity to surpass the 911 being hobbled by Porsche is an undesirable trait, and at least partially rooted in Germanic culture.
Your argument that 'Germanic culture' (I am half German btw and have lived there for 2 years) has to do with the fact that Porsche is purposely keeping back other models from surpassing the 911 in performance has no credibility.

By your argument, all German auto-makers would display similar traits since (obviously) they are German also so Audi, Mercedes, BMW would naturally be just like Porsche - when in fact they are not. RS4, RS6, M3, CL65AMG, ect...are all examples of models which push the respective 'icon' brands to the limit of performance.

To be clear, I'm agreeing with you that Porsche is purposely not engineering less-expensive models to out-perform the 911 because it is their flagship 'iconic' model and that's the way they like it. However, they aren't doing this because they are German, it is simply a company philosophy. Who can disagree with Porsche anyway? Everyone wants their products, and they are (until recently anyway) the most profitable auto-maker/unit sold in the world.
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:24 PM   #24
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Actually, it seems to me that most european car companies seem to be more evolutionary and self-evaluating than most japanese car companies.

Subaru and Honda tend to sample the water, and put something out, and then either cancel it, or let it die on the vine if it doesn't become a screaming success.

I have a Honda Hawk GT motorcycle. It got cancelled by Honda, and never re-tried, even when SV650 and Ducati Monster came in later and succeeded pretty well at the same genre.

I have an SVX. Also cancelled, and so far not re-tried, after well more than a decade, and the modest and measured comeback of the coupe market, and the advent of other subaru platforms, such as the H6 in the Legacy, Outback and Tribeca, which could share parts and platform with an SVX successor, and greatly reduce the cost that hurt the original SVX, because it was so completely unique compared to the rest of the Subaru lineup before 1997 when it was cancelled.

When things fail, it seems like the japanese manufacturers cut their losses and turn their backs. They don't self evaluate and find out how they could refine their designs or their product planning decisions. They do learn things in terms of process improvements and such, but they don't seem to be too easy to improve their products directly, perhaps if they see that it might admit some sort of shortcoming of the previous iteration that was addressed by the next version.

On the other hand, companies like Ducati, or Porsche, or other western enterprises, especially long-perspective european ones tend to be more introspective, and take more time to understand why something really works, and apply that wider, or they try to figure out why something doesn't work, and evaluate whether the premise is entirely flawed, or whether simply executing the premise better would result in more success.

(American business tends to be more faddish, and generally short-term sighted, it seems, both evaluating the past, and extrapolating current trends into the future. Maximize the effect right now, in a continually repetitive manner. Not a lot of long term building and maintaining. The only traditions kept and touted are ones that help sell currently.)

The original 911 was a different premise than most other sports cars. And it wasn't entirely perfect, especially considering snap-oversteer tendencies of rear-engined cars. But there are packaging advantages to a rear engine location over a more space-consuming mid-engined location... so Porsche refined, and re-refined, and re-refined the design, because the premise wasn't bad, the execution was improved, and the car got better and better.

Porsche is not the only company that does that, but it does seem to be a more westernized trait, compared to the far east, and it is probably culturally based, but more broadly than purely national identity. More on the civilization-wide scale. It is an anthropological observation, not necessarily a value judgement.

And since we are all sharing our heritage, I am not from Germany, but my ancestry is pretty close to 3/4 german, and 1/4 germanic Swiss, with maybe a tiny bit of other european heritage. My ancestors immigrated in the 1800s mostly to the midwest region, and have been American citizens ever since, as far as I am aware.

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Old 02-25-2011, 07:39 PM   #25
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I contend that there's no need for them to make the Cayman faster/better than the 911, regardless of efficiencies.

Let's agree the 911 is an inferior layout. But when people still buy the 911 regardless of imperfections, where's the incentive to all-of-a-sudden release something better?

Innovating for the sake of innovation isn't easy for any company to swallow - and if you think about it, Porsche is in a gravy position with the Cayman as is:

If someone releases a car that puts the 911 to shame AND drastically reduces sales of 911s, all Porsche has to do is throw their tech onto the Cayman and blow it out of the water. But blowing that load before the competition even steps up to the plate is a waste of time and money. We live in a capitalistic society, no one is going to make your life better for free just because you think they are capable. That's called Communism.
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