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Old 03-03-2011, 01:46 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Ford Reportedly Replacing Dual Clutch Transmissions In Some Fiesta Models

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The fiesta has slowly gained converts among Americans, hitting a high in sales last month.But Ford's now facing a growing number of complaints about the Fiesta's new dual-clutch manual transmission set to go into other Ford models as well. None of the complaints suggest a safety problem which would force Ford to do a recall, and Ford has been aggressive about responding to the complaints on Twitter and elsewhere. But the reports suggest a real issue with the Fiesta, one that could dent Ford's recently burnished quality reputation].
http://www.autospies.com/news/Ford-R...-Models-62107/
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:20 PM   #2
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So WTF is the problem?

Stupid article.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:23 PM   #3
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So WTF is the problem?

Stupid article.
better article:
http://jalopnik.com/#!5774473/ford-q...ner-complaints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalopnik
Ford quietly replacing Fiesta transmissions on owner complaints

The new Ford Fiesta has slowly gained converts among Americans, hitting a high in sales last month. But Ford's now facing a growing number of complaints about the Fiesta's new dual-clutch automatic transmission set to go into other Ford models as well.

None of the complaints suggest a safety problem which would force Ford to do a recall, and Ford has been agressive about responding to the complaints on Twitter and elsewhere. But the reports suggest a real issue with the Fiesta, one that could dent Ford's recently burnished quality reputation.

One of the Fiesta's calling cards is fuel economy of up to 40 mpg on the highway, made possible by the Powershift six-speed automatic transmission built at a Ford-Gertrag joint venture in Mexico. The all-new Powershift is essentially two three-speed manual transmissions merged and shifted electrically with two clutches. Using electrical controls rather than traditional hydraulics helps the transmission boost the fuel economy of the Fiesta by 10%, and Ford will use it on the upcoming Focus as well.

Yet since its launch last year, a sizable number of consumers have reported problems with the Powershift, both online and to U.S. auto safety regulators, ranging from hard shifts at speed to not engaging any gear. Several have reported having to get new transmissions, and there's at least two reports of multiple transmission failures.

A typical complaint from one board:

Quote:
We had the same issue with our 2011 Ford Fiesta…a few times it started rough..clicked three times then started..It happened in the cold weather then my wife backed out of the drive way one day and it wouldn't go into drive. We had it towed to the dealer and they said when they got it off the flat bed they got in and drove it into the garage no problem. They ran a bunch of tests on the system and couldn't get the car to do it again.
Five owners have filed complaints with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration over the Powershift, with two reporting they were given replacement units. Other owners on the Ford Fiesta forum say they're having to wait for replacements, with their Fiesta sitting in a dealer's lot:

Quote:
Owned it for 10 days of short distance driving. Took it back to the dealer who said they would have to change out the complete transmission assembly on order from Ford. Big problem is they had no spares anywhere in the US of A! Swear to God - that's what Ford told me! So the car has been at the dealers for over two weeks because they said the problem was too serious to continue driving the car.
Ford has issued one repair bulletin for the Fiesta's transmission to dealers, saying low voltage in the car's electrical system could cause the transmission's electronic controls to shut down or not allow the car to start at all, as this video shows. The fix? A software update for the transmission along with scraping paint away from underneath the battery's ground screw for a better connection.

Many owners say that fix solved their problem, but others are still in line for brand-new transmissions.

Ford says only a small number of transmissions have been replaced, in part to diagnose what was causing them to fail, and that the low-voltage issue was an early production issue that's since been fixed. That could explain it, although several of the complaints we found were made last month. American automakers don't get the benefit of the doubt from consumers on quality, and given how much Ford has riding on the Fiesta and the new Powershift, its fixes need to work.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:42 PM   #4
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Ok, so? All car compainies have problems.
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:18 PM   #5
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Ok, so? All car compainies have problems.
Yeah, but it is not like the radio stops working or the front struts go bad quickly........major transmission problems are a big deal, especially when it is your brand new car they have to tear apart and throw a new transmission into. Hopefully this will get taken care of quickly and effectively, for the owners' and Ford's sake. Don't make me question my desire for a Focus ST in a few years Ford.......
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:22 PM   #6
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So if the problem is a couple electrical contacts causing voltage issues, it's not a problem with the transmission itself, yeah? Sounds like something that would happen with a VW, looks like Ford has been doing some copying

Truth be told, its probably easier for the dealer to say go ahead and replace the transmission, without doing a decent diagnosis. Just sucks when that is the course of action but parts aren't available.
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:39 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Lboogie View Post
So if the problem is a couple electrical contacts causing voltage issues, it's not a problem with the transmission itself, yeah? Sounds like something that would happen with a VW, looks like Ford has been doing some copying

Truth be told, its probably easier for the dealer to say go ahead and replace the transmission, without doing a decent diagnosis. Just sucks when that is the course of action but parts aren't available.
they are probably replacing whole transmissions to send back for closer review and to see if there was actually a failure, what it was and then how to keep it from occurring in the future.

when a part gets warrantied it will be sent back to the manufacturer, but if they aren't certain what the issue is, they just replace the unit and send the whole thing back, as the technicians at the dealership A) don't work for ford, and 2) aren't trained to diagnose issues at that level.

Anyway, soon enough, if there is a recurring issue, they'll publish a fix for it that will be done via software, or hardware.
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:21 PM   #8
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First year problems with a brand new transmission? No way!
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:08 PM   #9
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First year problems with a brand new transmission? No way!
Shocking, right??


It's too bad they didn't include flappy paddles.. then they could just blame the owners.
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:50 PM   #10
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My ex was looking at the Fiesta. Quick search yielded tranny problems up the wazoo. Pass. Come back in a few years when you've fixed it.
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:32 PM   #11
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Didn't the DSG have it's fair share of initial issues a few years back? I'm sure it'll be fine in a year or two, but in the interim just go for the manual.
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Ford-Gertrag joint venture in Mexico
The answer to the problems is in this statement. The Getrag twin clutch manuals in the M3 and EVO have held up well and have had no mass failures despite being mated to performance cars. But those were made in Germany.
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:13 PM   #13
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I'm not certain why Ford went with a DSG for the Fiesta. I'm sure it is slightly more efficient than a torque converter equipped AT, but I doubt there is much of a cost advantage and there is clearly a quality risk. The '12 Focus gets a traditional 6AT, doesn't it?
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Old 03-04-2011, 01:57 AM   #14
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I have the VW version (DSG) and this sounds like my daily drive. lol.

That's just how these dual clutch boxes feel, unless you are feeding lot's of power through the box it's clunky and messy.
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Old 03-04-2011, 03:10 AM   #15
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I'm not certain why Ford went with a DSG for the Fiesta. I'm sure it is slightly more efficient than a torque converter equipped AT, but I doubt there is much of a cost advantage and there is clearly a quality risk. The '12 Focus gets a traditional 6AT, doesn't it?
For some reason they tuned it to feel exactly like a slow conventional automatic. Any dreams of dual clutch snappy upshifts, immediate downshifts, and manual control are thoroughly squashed.
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:52 AM   #16
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I recently rented a fiesta with a AT, and while the tranny was typical AT trash, the car was simply fantastic to drive. So light and darty. I loved it. I kept thinking with 0 more HP, this car would be outstanding with a 6 speed manual.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by SilverSubaab View Post
Yeah, but it is not like the radio stops working or the front struts go bad quickly........major transmission problems are a big deal, especially when it is your brand new car they have to tear apart and throw a new transmission into. Hopefully this will get taken care of quickly and effectively, for the owners' and Ford's sake. Don't make me question my desire for a Focus ST in a few years Ford.......

but tons of our subys have lost compression for no reason VERY early


those damn dsg's are clunky as hell, never could make it shift "normal"
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Old 03-04-2011, 02:30 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
I'm not certain why Ford went with a DSG for the Fiesta. I'm sure it is slightly more efficient than a torque converter equipped AT, but I doubt there is much of a cost advantage and there is clearly a quality risk.
10% fuel economy improvement is what they're saying.. which probably means it's worth it to avoid CAFE penalties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I recently rented a fiesta with a AT, and while the tranny was typical AT trash, the car was simply fantastic to drive. So light and darty. I loved it. I kept thinking with 0 more HP, this car would be outstanding with a 6 speed manual.
Too bad they put stupid-tall gears in the manual. I haven't driven one yet, but the reviews mostly touched on how poor the gear spacing and final drive ratio were for the manual.
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:05 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
I'm not certain why Ford went with a DSG for the Fiesta. I'm sure it is slightly more efficient than a torque converter equipped AT, but I doubt there is much of a cost advantage and there is clearly a quality risk. The '12 Focus gets a traditional 6AT, doesn't it?
Quote:
Using electrical controls rather than traditional hydraulics helps the transmission boost the fuel economy of the Fiesta by 10%, and Ford will use it on the upcoming Focus as well.
The 6AT Fiesta has no manual way of selecting a specific gear.
That's one of the issues right out of the box.

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Old 03-04-2011, 10:55 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by SilverSubaab View Post
Yeah, but it is not like the radio stops working or the front struts go bad quickly........major transmission problems are a big deal, especially when it is your brand new car they have to tear apart and throw a new transmission into. Hopefully this will get taken care of quickly and effectively, for the owners' and Ford's sake. Don't make me question my desire for a Focus ST in a few years Ford.......
Yeah, like my 09' WRX with a bad transmission at 5,000 miles because some joker couldn't set gear lash right, or the clutch chewing the **** out of itself because of a incorrectly manufactured pressure plate.

Or, maybe my old 05' with a bad valve body at 12,000 miles. Or maybe my wife's Santa Fe with a engine replacement at 27,000 miles, or my fathers Lincoln MKS with a bad transmission at 5,000 miles, or a 6.5 million dollar Premier I with bad pitch trim actuators that kick the autopilot off randomly and take a year to fix, or the $12,000 landing gear door that falls off. Continue?
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:10 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Obsessive View Post
Yeah, like my 09' WRX with a bad transmission at 5,000 miles because some joker couldn't set gear lash right, or the clutch chewing the **** out of itself because of a incorrectly manufactured pressure plate.

Or, maybe my old 05' with a bad valve body at 12,000 miles. Or maybe my wife's Santa Fe with a engine replacement at 27,000 miles, or my fathers Lincoln MKS with a bad transmission at 5,000 miles, or a 6.5 million dollar Premier I with bad pitch trim actuators that kick the autopilot off randomly and take a year to fix, or the $12,000 landing gear door that falls off. Continue?
Dude. Stay away from me. lol. You've got some bad luck.

Isn't this the idea Ford has had the patent on since the mid 80s and just recently had the technology to actually make it?

The Lineartronic CVT is "new" and hasn't had issues to this extent; or has Subaru hid them well?
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