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Old 03-09-2011, 03:06 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Honda says plug-in Accord will go 15 miles on battery



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Honda says plug-ins will go 15 miles on battery


The new line of mid-sized plug-in hybrids that Honda Motor Co. aims to introduce next year will be able to travel up to 15 miles in electric-only mode, an executive says.
That would counter criticism that Honda's current hybrid technology is too weak to provide extended motor-only travel. The Integrated Motor Assist system used in the Honda Insight, Civic and CR-Z hybrids uses the electric motor mostly to assist the gasoline engine.
The new technology, which is scheduled to debut in 2012, is a two-motor system that runs on a lithium ion battery. The battery will be supplied through Blue Energy Co., Honda's battery joint venture with GS Yuasa Corp, said Hirohisa Ogawa, a chief engineer of battery research at Honda.
Ogawa, speaking at the International Rechargeable Battery Expo in Tokyo, said the new plug-ins would be able to run nine to 15 miles in electric-only mode.
Honda began testing the vehicles late last year, he added.
President Takanobu Ito has said his engineers are preparing to put the system in the Accord mid-sized sedan. Honda discontinued an earlier hybrid Accord, which was equipped with the Integrated Motor Assist system, in part because it was underpowered.

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Old 03-09-2011, 03:08 PM   #2
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According to a recent report, Honda will introduce an Accord Plug-in Hybrid sometime next year.
Details are limited, but the car will likely adopt the plug-in hybrid technology that was showcased at the Los Angeles Auto Show. This means we can expect the Accord to feature a 2.0-liter four-cylinder petrol engine, a 6 kWh lithium-ion battery, and an electric motor that develops 161 hp (120 kW / 163 PS).
Thanks to this setup, the Accord would be able to travel 10 to 15 miles (16 to 24 km) on electricity alone at speeds up to 62 mph (100 km/h). Furthermore, the battery could be recharged in 2 to 2.5 hours with a conventional 120 volt household outlet or 1 to 1.5 hours with a 240 volt rapid charger.


nmnmnm
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Old 03-09-2011, 03:45 PM   #3
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i thought 15 miles was a typo and it actually was 150...
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Old 03-09-2011, 03:51 PM   #4
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Wow, way to go Honda (to be read in a very sarcastic voice, with a borderline painful eye roll).........
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:09 PM   #5
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this is good news. now i just need to convince everything in my life to move a little closer to where i live...

actually, work, home, the grocery store and most friends are all within a mile or two, but i wanted to comnplain.

the 15 miles seems a little silly. it's not enough for most commutes i'd say, as opposed to the volt it seems woefully underwhelming.
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:56 PM   #6
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...10-15 miles on battery alone, unless you need heat or A/C.

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Old 03-09-2011, 05:23 PM   #7
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...10-15 miles on battery alone, unless you need heat or A/C.

What about the steering? Wonder if its EPS or Hydraulic.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:34 PM   #8
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GM took $20k Cruze, put 16kWh battery in it and made a $40k Volt.
If Honda can take $23k Accord and put a 6kWh battery for ~$30k total, that's a better deal in my book. I live in city and I do a lot of short trips, my cars are usually cold and gas mileage is not so good. With 2 hour charge time, a could have my car always topped up.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:44 PM   #9
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the 15 miles seems a little silly. it's not enough for most commutes i'd say
Good, because it doesn't have to be. Batteries are extremely expensive, which means you do not want to install more battery capacity than you can use in a day. If you need to run the gas engine for a few miles, that's no big deal. If your battery is not completely empty when you arrive at home, that is a big deal, because it means you spent thousands on batteries you're not using.
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:18 AM   #10
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Good, because it doesn't have to be. Batteries are extremely expensive, which means you do not want to install more battery capacity than you can use in a day. If you need to run the gas engine for a few miles, that's no big deal. If your battery is not completely empty when you arrive at home, that is a big deal, because it means you spent thousands on batteries you're not using.
You, with the common sense - out. This is for zomgelectriccarzaredum!!1 comments only!
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:58 AM   #11
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What about the steering? Wonder if its EPS or Hydraulic.
Do you really think Honda wouldn't factor-in directional changes?
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:07 AM   #12
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Can you drive it on a golf course?

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Old 03-10-2011, 08:23 AM   #13
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GM took $20k Cruze, put 16kWh battery in it and made a $40k Volt.
If Honda can take $23k Accord and put a 6kWh battery for ~$30k total, that's a better deal in my book. I live in city and I do a lot of short trips, my cars are usually cold and gas mileage is not so good. With 2 hour charge time, a could have my car always topped up.
I don't think you can compare the two, or at least you need an asterisk. sure the accord is bigger, but a cruze with the same options as a $23,000 accord wouldn't be $20,000. Also, just because they share a platform doesn't mean the cruze was the starting point. and it doesn't mean they are that similar.

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Good, because it doesn't have to be. Batteries are extremely expensive, which means you do not want to install more battery capacity than you can use in a day. If you need to run the gas engine for a few miles, that's no big deal. If your battery is not completely empty when you arrive at home, that is a big deal, because it means you spent thousands on batteries you're not using.
to be fair, i did say i just wanted to complain. ...but seriously, i've heard of a lot of people who commute farther and farther to work because of the lagging job market. 15 miles isn't just not enough for a commute, it isn't even close in some places, making a normal hybrid like the prius probably just as cost efficient and green. at every other job i've held, before i moved from suburbs of detroit to fort wayne indiana, 15 miles wouldn't even get me to work, let alone a round trip and a trip to the grocery store. when the battery covers 30% of my drive, that's not the same as 'gets almost home, and it's better to charge from dead'...And i'm not sure it's better to charge from dead anyway. i don't know enough about the batteries, but it seems like they would have designed it another way. what if your trip is only ~10 miles? they don't expect you to drive in circles just to run it down the rest of the way. and they don't expect you to leave for work in the morning with only 5 miles left.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:30 AM   #14
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^^^^^^ Perfect example of why these current plug-in hypebrids suck.

You're always left hauling around the extra weight, even if you're getting less than the full benefit from it. Screw that.



If some carmaker would grow a brain and produce a car that uses an onboard diesel generator to power an all-electric drive system (like a train engine), I'd fully embrace and become a promoter of such a car with religious-like zeal.

Diesel too dirty for you? Fine, let the generator run on CNG.
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:04 AM   #15
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sorta like a car version of the generators used on long haul vehicles. i know running a car is different from running a few accessories at a rest stop overnight, but carrying an engine that solely does charging for other stuff isn't such a foreign idea.
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:18 AM   #16
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sorta like a car version of the generators used on long haul vehicles. i know running a car is different from running a few accessories at a rest stop overnight, but carrying an engine that solely does charging for other stuff isn't such a foreign idea.
Trains (heh, spenk even said as much)
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:21 AM   #17
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i was talking about trucking. i worked on a generator that bolted to the frame on 18 wheelers.
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:50 AM   #18
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to be fair, i did say i just wanted to complain. ...but seriously, i've heard of a lot of people who commute farther and farther to work because of the lagging job market. 15 miles isn't just not enough for a commute, it isn't even close in some places, making a normal hybrid like the prius probably just as cost efficient and green. at every other job i've held, before i moved from suburbs of detroit to fort wayne indiana, 15 miles wouldn't even get me to work, let alone a round trip and a trip to the grocery store. when the battery covers 30% of my drive, that's not the same as 'gets almost home, and it's better to charge from dead'...And i'm not sure it's better to charge from dead anyway. i don't know enough about the batteries, but it seems like they would have designed it another way. what if your trip is only ~10 miles? they don't expect you to drive in circles just to run it down the rest of the way. and they don't expect you to leave for work in the morning with only 5 miles left.
Well those are two different issues. Lithium batteries will last longer if they're not fully charged or discharged. Vehicle manufacturers already take care of that by charging them to say 80% and discharging them to like 30%. They generally don't use the full capacity.

That's not what I was talking about though. Batteries are too expensive to include more capacity than your customers can use on a typical day.

Look at airlines for example. If they have enough passengers to fill 10 planes on a regular week day and 20 planes on the weekends, they're gonna go with the lowest common denominator, buy 10 planes and tell the extra weekend passengers to pound sand. Any additional planes would only see action on the weekends, and a plane that only flies 2-3 days per week is never going to make money. A passenger jet needs to be 80% full 7 days of the week to be profitable.

The same is true for batteries in plugin hybrids. Batteries that don't get used 100% every day cost more upfront than they will save you in gas over the life of the car, so if you have customers with 15, 30 and 45 mile commutes and you only want to offer one battery size, you have to go with the lowest common denominator and use a 15 mile battery.
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:32 PM   #19
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The same is true for batteries in plugin hybrids. Batteries that don't get used 100% every day cost more upfront than they will save you in gas over the life of the car, so if you have customers with 15, 30 and 45 mile commutes and you only want to offer one battery size, you have to go with the lowest common denominator and use a 15 mile battery.
if your commute is more than double the battery capability, you're screwed. if your commute is 5 miles a day, 10 miles a day, it doesn't matter what kind of car you have. the cheaper thing to do is buy an inexpensive car anyway.

unlike gas cars, where you can fill up across the street from home and across the street from work, until they get charging stations everywhere, being too far away means you won't buy a plug in, a much worse thing from the standpoint of the car company than wasting a little battery life. or needing to use the rest of the charge tomorrow.
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:02 PM   #20
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This car can be charged in 2 hours from any wall socket, all you need is $20 extension cord.
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:08 PM   #21
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This car can be charged in 2 hours from any wall socket, all you need is $20 extension cord.
AND if you plug in enough cords you can make it a lot further.
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:16 PM   #22
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This car can be charged in 2 hours from any wall socket, all you need is $20 extension cord.
Nice I'll just need to stop on my way to work for 2 hours to charge the batteries so I can make it.
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:19 PM   #23
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Nice I'll just need to stop on my way to work for 2 hours to charge the batteries so I can make it.
You still have engine in your car. You don't have to relay on battery power to get where you wont to go.
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:58 PM   #24
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This car can be charged in 2 hours from any wall socket, all you need is $20 extension cord.
yes, because common corporate or office buildings will let you run a cord to the parking lot from the lobby
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:19 PM   #25
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We have electric outlets next to every truck parking space (used in a winter to heat engine block), I could leave my car there when I take my truck.
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