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Old 03-10-2011, 02:29 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Saab in danger of bankruptcy - report

Quote:
It sounds like déjà vu all over again as a new report is indicating that Saab is in danger of going bankrupt.
In an interview with Sweden's Dagens Industri, would-be Russian investor Vladimir Antonov stated he doesn't believe Saab will reach their goal of selling 80,000 cars in 2011. He added this would cause problems with the European Investment Bank which could result in Saab being declared bankrupt within five days after the loan is due. Furthermore, Antonov said the company likely needs €1 billion to stay afloat and he is willing to invest half that amount.
While nothing is official, Saab's financial situation could explain Spyker's recent decision to sell their supercar division to CPP Global Holdings. Of course, this could also be chalked up to an overzealous investor who's peeved that his alleged ties to organized crime deep-sixed his original attempts to back Saab.
Source: Dagens Industri and NU
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:28 PM   #2
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I am amazed Saab lasted this long.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:40 AM   #3
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I am amazed Saab lasted this long.
Seriously! The only good Saab was the one by Subaru.
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:10 AM   #4
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not true, imo...i love my 9-3. like my friend's newer, v-6 aero a lot more. and that new 9-5 is a thing of beauty. I loved my saabaru too, but for different reasons.

it would be sad if the company goes under so soon after getting what looks to be their best car in ages, the new 9-5, launches.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:17 AM   #5
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SAAB was great (good rally heritage, and a history of turbocharged engines too), then GM turned it mediocre. I'm so glad that didn't happen with Subaru, but then GM didn't own a share long enough to kill it.

I still believe FHI should either purchase a share in SAAB, or buy it outright. The '08 Tribeca was going to be the SAAB version, until GM pulled out. There were even plans to resurrect the SAAB Sonnett, made by Subaru. So many possibilities...

If FHI bought SAAB: Instant luxury line along the lines of Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti. It would be a perfect fit! (and they even both start with 'S'!)
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:29 AM   #6
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GM's control over the last 20 years have hurt SAAB. The new 9-5 and hopefully new 92 (not 9-2x) look great and hopefully they can stay afloat until their new product lines can roll out and give SAAB a fighting chance. I hope this financial situation does not delay these new products.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:58 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Sub!eDr!ver View Post
SAAB was great (good rally heritage, and a history of turbocharged engines too), then GM turned it mediocre. I'm so glad that didn't happen with Subaru, but then GM didn't own a share long enough to kill it.

I still believe FHI should either purchase a share in SAAB, or buy it outright. The '08 Tribeca was going to be the SAAB version, until GM pulled out. There were even plans to resurrect the SAAB Sonnett, made by Subaru. So many possibilities...

If FHI bought SAAB: Instant luxury line along the lines of Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti. It would be a perfect fit! (and they even both start with 'S'!)
The whole reason that the Saabaru existed was because pre-meltdown GM wanted to give control of Saab from Opel to Subaru and this was their first exercise to see how Saab buyers would receive Subaru-manufactured vehicles. Before they divested of FHI, GM was trying to get Subaru to buy Saab outright, an offer FHI flatly refused.

I don't see how Saab and Subaru can coexist under FHI without stepping on each other's toes. Saab isn't prestigious enough for the post $50k market and Subaru is doing fine in the $30-40k market.

On the other hand, having FHI supply cars to Saab again is not a bad idea. The Legacy would be a natural fit below the 9-5.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:12 PM   #8
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Tough times like in 2008 for auto industry with fuel costs escalating again. Seems everyone forgot what it did last time to economy.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:14 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
I don't see how Saab and Subaru can coexist under FHI without stepping on each other's toes. Saab isn't prestigious enough for the post $50k market
This i'll buy...

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and Subaru is doing fine in the $30-40k market.
this one, not so much. at least not in a way that it would cause issues.

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The Legacy would be a natural fit below the 9-5.
yeah, not buying this one either. at least not this legacy.

the two lines would have to be kept separate, and i'm not sure it's a good idea even then.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:45 PM   #10
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Those giving fault to GM about SAAB's failure need to read up. GM bought SAAB to keep them from going under. If GM didn't invest in SAAB they'd probably not be around anymore. Now having said that, GM didn't do much to embrace the brand and make something worthwhile to profit from it. They tried to bastardize the brand by merging it into their poor re-branding techniques that almost killed GM's existence as well.

So while GM kept SAAB alive, they didn't make it healthy and have it grow on it's own. SAAB remained on life support, sold it and now SAAB continues on life support at a different hospital.

SAAB's are very nice cars but they are overpriced, especially in such a competitive market.
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub!eDr!ver
SAAB was great (good rally heritage, and a history of turbocharged engines too), then GM turned it mediocre. I'm so glad that didn't happen with Subaru, but then GM didn't own a share long enough to kill it.

I still believe FHI should either purchase a share in SAAB, or buy it outright. The '08 Tribeca was going to be the SAAB version, until GM pulled out. There were even plans to resurrect the SAAB Sonnett, made by Subaru. So many possibilities...

If FHI bought SAAB: Instant luxury line along the lines of Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti. It would be a perfect fit! (and they even both start with 'S'!)
lay off the pipe...fhi/subaru is doing just fine without saab.
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:24 PM   #12
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SAAB was a very niche car company that expanded on the wings of coked up yuppies in the 80s, then the coked up yuppies sobered up and were like, SAAB, WTF?

they haven't recaptured that magic back, and probably never will, despite having some pretty spunky and neat looking cars. they just cost too much for what they are (IMO).
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub!eDr!ver View Post
SAAB was great (good rally heritage, and a history of turbocharged engines too), then GM turned it mediocre. I'm so glad that didn't happen with Subaru, but then GM didn't own a share long enough to kill it.

I still believe FHI should either purchase a share in SAAB, or buy it outright. The '08 Tribeca was going to be the SAAB version, until GM pulled out. There were even plans to resurrect the SAAB Sonnett, made by Subaru. So many possibilities...

If FHI bought SAAB: Instant luxury line along the lines of Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti. It would be a perfect fit! (and they even both start with 'S'!)
Everyone claim GM turned Saab to crap, but Saab was crap that's why GM took over. They were going down, GM delayed it, now they are going down for good. About time I say. It's been wasting money for a lot of companies. Why would anyone buy Saab is beyond me.
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Old 03-12-2011, 07:48 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by BigElm View Post
Those giving fault to GM about SAAB's failure need to read up. GM bought SAAB to keep them from going under. If GM didn't invest in SAAB they'd probably not be around anymore. Now having said that, GM didn't do much to embrace the brand and make something worthwhile to profit from it. They tried to bastardize the brand by merging it into their poor re-branding techniques that almost killed GM's existence as well.

So while GM kept SAAB alive, they didn't make it healthy and have it grow on it's own. SAAB remained on life support, sold it and now SAAB continues on life support at a different hospital.

SAAB's are very nice cars but they are overpriced, especially in such a competitive market.
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Originally Posted by 4wdwrx View Post
Everyone claim GM turned Saab to crap, but Saab was crap that's why GM took over. They were going down, GM delayed it, now they are going down for good. About time I say. It's been wasting money for a lot of companies. Why would anyone buy Saab is beyond me.
This.

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Originally Posted by samagon View Post
SAAB was a very niche car company that expanded on the wings of coked up yuppies in the 80s, then the coked up yuppies sobered up and were like, SAAB, WTF?
You hit this nail on the head. I'm old enough to remember the yuppie/Saab phenomenon. I knew kids in college whose parents - with Northeast Corridor salaries that went a lot farther when they relocated to Atlanta - bought them 900 Turbos that quickly went to hell. How much of that was due to youthful abuse and neglect I don't recall, but I do recall lots of hoofing, bumming rides and taking the campus buses while said 900s were in the shop.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:55 PM   #15
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SAAB made sense when Sweden's labor costs were low. As the cost to build in Sweden went up, both Volvo and Saab went upmarket to compensate. These only marginally worked, and the only profit to be had was convincing Ford and GM execs that they were luxury cars.

Volvo has more cache and a larger portfolio, they can exist longer, depending on how Chinese management works it. Saab is thin, and it's all warmed over GM stuff with little to no unique engineering. It will be amazing if they can tough it out.

They can exist using other manufacturer's stuff, early Saab V4s were triumph co-developed. But the profit is thin in the near luxury segment.
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:16 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Derbagger View Post
SAAB made sense when Sweden's labor costs were low. As the cost to build in Sweden went up, both Volvo and Saab went upmarket to compensate. These only marginally worked, and the only profit to be had was convincing Ford and GM execs that they were luxury cars.

Volvo has more cache and a larger portfolio, they can exist longer, depending on how Chinese management works it. Saab is thin, and it's all warmed over GM stuff with little to no unique engineering. It will be amazing if they can tough it out.

They can exist using other manufacturer's stuff, early Saab V4s were triumph co-developed. But the profit is thin in the near luxury segment.
Good lord

The V4 was a Ford unit. The early 99 engines (1.7L and 1.85L) were Triumph derived (Ricardo designs.) The 2L B engines in the later 99s were a major improvement over the Triumph lumps.
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Old 03-18-2011, 09:44 PM   #17
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Good lord

The V4 was a Ford unit. The early 99 engines (1.7L and 1.85L) were Triumph derived (Ricardo designs.) The 2L B engines in the later 99s were a major improvement over the Triumph lumps.
You were right, I was wrong.
You are smart, I am dumb.
You're good looking, I'm not very attractive.

My point is that Saab has done alot of adopting other companies engineering. My knowledge is a bit fuzzy for time periods before my birth.

all I remember is puking in a flesh colored 900.
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