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Old 03-23-2011, 01:35 PM   #1
PA-Outback2000
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Default Cams

i am in the process of getting cams!

what i am getting for install..

high-lift cams
stronger springs and titanium retainers
SMT6 ecu
WRX 420cc injectors
fuel pressure regulator
wallbro 255 fuel pump
custom fuel rail modification

and a final tune

i have been told that i can gain about 35HP with this set-up on top of the other mods i have.

leave any questions or comments.
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Last edited by PA-Outback2000; 08-05-2013 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:03 PM   #2
T Wrex--OH
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I'm thinking that the fuel upgrade is a little overkill.

What cams are we talking about here?
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Old 03-24-2011, 03:39 AM   #3
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The fuel upgrades are needless.
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:26 AM   #4
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Titanium springs?
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:46 AM   #5
PA-Outback2000
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sorry... titanium retainers

the cams i am getting are .445 lift cams from xcceleration
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA-Outback2000 View Post
sorry... titanium retainers

the cams i am getting are .445 lift cams from xcceleration
Your wallet must love you


All jokes aside it should be good to see what improvement these make.
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:26 PM   #7
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ha! i was getting bored with what i have and haven't splurged on myself that much so i thought i would do this. don't know when, but i will do a new dyno run once they r in. should gain about 30CHP.
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:37 PM   #8
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xcceleration as a whole seems to give off the whole "we're awesome and our s*** is the best" vibe. I wonder if their stuff is worth all the hype. I'll be interested to see the gains from this.



edit. Whoah, crap. I just checked the price for those cams. Wowzers!
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:44 PM   #9
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I'm interested to hear why you consider those cams superior to ones you could by from Web or Delta for much less money...
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Old 03-24-2011, 03:59 PM   #10
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Holy crap! Those are even more expensive than cams from TWE!
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Wrex--OH View Post
edit. Whoah, crap. I just checked the price for those cams. Wowzers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
Holy crap! Those are even more expensive than cams from TWE!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
I'm interested to hear why you consider those cams superior to ones you could by from Web or Delta for much less money...
Holy crap, you guys weren't kidding! Are they made of unobtanium and forged by Thor?
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
Holy crap, you guys weren't kidding! Are they made of unobtanium and forged by Thor?
Maybe they send a hot delivery chick to give you a hummer with your parts?
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:16 PM   #13
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That might explain some of it. I guess the remaining $1000 would be the round trip airfare to get the delivery chick to your place and then back to their shop?

Seriously, those prices are just stupid. With a couple of other dramatically cheaper, proven options on the market, why would someone pay such prices?
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:22 PM   #14
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Seriously, those prices are just stupid. With a couple of other dramatically cheaper, proven options on the market, why would someone pay such prices?
Yeah, I've never understood why anyone does business with Xcelleration. Their prices are assrape-with-a-sandpaper-condom territory and they're not making anymore power out of their NA stuff than anyone else is.

Hell, I nearly choked when considering paying TWE $450 for a set of cams and at least then I trusted that Tom really was doing better science/engineering than anyone else.
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:00 PM   #15
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I bet close to half that price is the "core charge" that they "don't" charge you. I also bet that when they show up they are someone else's cams just being resold under their label...
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:06 PM   #16
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I've got delta cams and I've like them, I'm curious to see how these do conpared to regrinds. Delta will make custom cams for you with high lift and i bet they would still be quit a bit cheaper. I also have the smt6 also and it was a pain to set up, mostly because i didn't get complete instructions from Rallitek and they changed the wiring so you can't control timing so it's used as only as air/fuel controler.
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:38 AM   #17
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Matt, Patrick, and williaty... i chose them because they have better/more aggressive specs than delta, TWE, and others. there is no core charge and are not regrinds. they are machined from new billet stock to xcceleration's specs. and are specifically engineered for the N/A's. these cams are the maximum lift u can fit in the heads w/o internal cam chamber modification.

the $2000 includes the cost of new billet material, the time and labor to machine and heat treat them, and also includes the springs and titanium retainers that alone are $800 from them. so lets say cams themselves cost $1200 for argument's sake.

xcceleration's engine builder and tuner has his own business and has worked on $250,000 ferrari and peugeot engines, supercharged V8 speed boat race engines, and F1 engines aside from the many subaru engines he has done. his engineering work done on the cams and heads has gotten a WRX from arkansas up to 800HP with a crapload of low-end torque where delta and twe haven't figured that out and the car still has a normal idle compared to others i have heard on youtube. with only a few modifications that WRX can compete with or beat "big valley" in south america. xcceleration also has international rally teams coming to them for their subaru race engines.
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:13 PM   #18
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I'd be interested in seeing the whole profile spec of the cam. It's not all about lift...

And nobody challenged whether the cams were any good or whether or not their tech knows anything about engines. It's just a lot of money and most of us don't believe that they were designed or manufactured in house.
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:24 PM   #19
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Even beyond that, one of the projects I did at my last job was to study the economics of getting custom EJ25 SOHC cams done from the ground up. I know what it costs at a wholesale level to get new cams made, then ground, and then make a reasonable profit on them. We eventually concluded that the price was too high, and the number we came up with was a LOT less than $1200
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:31 PM   #20
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Old 03-25-2011, 05:48 PM   #21
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same
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:14 PM   #22
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More aggressive than TWE's race cams?

Any head work to bump up and even out flow? Going to do anything about the intake manifold? Bump in static compression? (depending on duration change and drop in dynamic compression ratio)

Interestingly, fueling can become an issue eventually with a race geared NA build. It takes a bit though, but you can max out the injectors.
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:30 PM   #23
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Hell, I'm at 98% IDC at 13:1 right now and I don't even have any of that crap done. There's not much overhead in the newer cars at least.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post
More aggressive than TWE's race cams?

Any head work to bump up and even out flow? Going to do anything about the intake manifold? Bump in static compression? (depending on duration change and drop in dynamic compression ratio)

Interestingly, fueling can become an issue eventually with a race geared NA build. It takes a bit though, but you can max out the injectors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
Hell, I'm at 98% IDC at 13:1 right now and I don't even have any of that crap done. There's not much overhead in the newer cars at least.

This conversation just went right over my head. But, please, continue. This is entertaining.
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Old 03-26-2011, 02:30 AM   #25
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TWE has a Stage III cam available for the 2.5L motors, basically race cams to some degree. I'm sure you can get more aggressive if there is a need for it, but any serious cam should put peak efficiency towards the top end of the stock rev range. Now if you have a motor rev to 8k, you might think about something a hair more, but that entirely depends on what you want the engine to do. Plus you need to address the heads and intake and exhaust manifolds too because we're talking bumping up flow another 50% from stock to which these oem parts are not geared for.

Aggressive to a generic degree means duration. Stock is 180 degrees which is extremely mild. Sport is 200 to 210 for these cars, again rather mild in the grand scheme. Race cams get up in the 230 to 250 degree range which becomes relatively significant towards making torque up high but will run worse near idle and low rpm. The other part is the amount of lift the cam has as well as how quickly it lifts. A cam that lifts and drops quicker to promote more flow requires a heavier spring to be used.

IDC = injector duty cycle. It a basic sense it's what percent of the time the injector is spraying gas into the heads. 100% means it's on all the time. If you reach this point, you can't put any more fuel into the car. If the car runs more air, it will lean out, and there will be heat issues which can lead to knock.

Injectors are rated for flow rate. A 440 injector means 440 cc/min of fuel. We can relate that back to the flow of stuff through the engine and the amount of HP we can make. A simple calculator to show you what I mean:
http://www.injector.com/injectorselection.php
Note that the stock NA injectors are 280 cc/min which only gets you around 210HP (crank) running at 100%. These 150-160whp NA dyno plots basically have the cars maxing out the injectors.
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