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Old 03-23-2011, 05:38 PM   #1
bigusnickus
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Default Buying used track pads??

So I am trying to prepare for my first track day this summer and I want to be covered on brakes. Car is at a COBB stage 2 power level and I will be on stock size street tires. After speaking with Tony at TiC it appears that HT-10s will suffice for a first-timer at Putnam Park in Indiana.

I am trying to do this as cheaply as possible because I am still not sure of the actual cost of a track day and want to be out as little money as possible if I find that it is out of my price range to do on a regular basis.

I figure if I can save 100 bucks by buying slightly used (3/8" pad left at minimum) HT-10s why not?

Is there anything wrong with buying used pads?

Responses are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:52 AM   #2
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imo- The pad may be warn or seated much different on the rotor it came off. I suggest new pads,rotors and fluid for your first track day. Breaks are the most important thing at the track. Not something you want to budget on.
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:01 AM   #3
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I see people use used pads all the time for spairs... hell i've seen people glaze pads over and then use a grinder to get the top layer off and reuse them.

HOWEVER - since this is your first day on track my guess is you don't have a ton of experience knowing the warning signs of bad pads or pads that are going bad... So I'd advise you to grab a new set of pads and rotors and just have them for track use... It's not a big deal to swap the streets back on after.
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:08 AM   #4
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I (and countless others) scour for and use used track pads all the tire. Like tires, great deals are to be had. Watch out for heavy tapering, etc. But beyond that, go for it.
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:14 AM   #5
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Thanks for the input guys. For reference, here is what I am looking at buying:
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:50 AM   #6
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Those look better than mine . What kind are they? Pics of the pad face?
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:09 PM   #7
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nothing wrong with used pads. if they glaze over, i simply use 80 grit sandpaper and remove the glazing. as long there's no cracks in them... and you can get them a good deal... why not.
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:43 PM   #8
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First track day, as in a HPDE event? You should not need track pads, just fresh fluid and properly sliding calipers. If it's anything like events around here they'll put you in a novice group and you will run at a lower pace with more traffic.
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by rjrutzky View Post
Those look better than mine . What kind are they? Pics of the pad face?
ha yeah I wasn't gonna buy crappy used ones. Hawk Ht-10 and I don't have a pic of the face, but they aren't glazed over.

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Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
First track day, as in a HPDE event? You should not need track pads, just fresh fluid and properly sliding calipers. If it's anything like events around here they'll put you in a novice group and you will run at a lower pace with more traffic.
It will be an event with 10/10ths and I will be running in the novice group, but I will have an instructor in the car at all times and I don't plan on running at a lower pace. One of the Tony's from TiC will probably be my instructor so they will push me I'm sure.
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:10 PM   #10
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nothing wrong with used pads. if they glaze over, i simply use 80 grit sandpaper and remove the glazing. as long there's no cracks in them... and you can get them a good deal... why not.
Well, they're HT10's, cracks are inevitable.

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Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
First track day, as in a HPDE event? You should not need track pads, just fresh fluid and properly sliding calipers. If it's anything like events around here they'll put you in a novice group and you will run at a lower pace with more traffic.
Really depends on the size of the group. Even when "running at a lower pace", WOT from exit to braking zones is still likely for an aggressive driver, even at their first event. And that's all you really need to be doing to generate the kind of heat in these small brakes which make track pads a good idea.

Even my girlfriend was fading DS2500s on her first outing (not overbraking mind you), just a decently tough-on-brakes track (Summit main), a 3400 lb. car, and 330+ HP. Switched her over to track bpads midway through the day and she was all set.

IMHO, it is rarely worth it to risk running street pads, even a midly agressive driver can cook these brakes in short order.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
First track day, as in a HPDE event? You should not need track pads, just fresh fluid and properly sliding calipers. If it's anything like events around here they'll put you in a novice group and you will run at a lower pace with more traffic.
Wrong answer.

My first track day in the STi I found out that the OEM pads faded in 15 minutes. I nursed them, but the last part of the session was not as much fun.

Swaped in Ferodo DS2500 pads. Still not enough, but they went away at the end of a sesson.

DS3000 pads work great.

This is in a A/B Stock STi. No extra hp. Just leaning on the car.

I'd go for the good used pads, but pull a wheel to monitor wear at the track between sessions. I've hit the backing plates on an old BMW and it isn't fun using every trick in the book to make the next corner in an ugly slow way. Did keep it on the tarmac...
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Old 03-25-2011, 12:17 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Web Foot STi View Post
Wrong answer.


Would not be the case around here at all, that's why I asked him to clarify the type of event. Any HPDE that lets a first time drive in the novice group brake so hard that they are fading their brakes to the point of being a problem in 15-20 minutes is not managing their students properly. A novice thinking their going to be driving 10/10ths at their first event is also a recipe for failure IMO.
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Old 03-25-2011, 12:56 PM   #13
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A novice thinking their going to be driving 10/10ths at their first event is also a recipe for failure IMO.
Sorry I didn't clarify. 10/10ths motorsports is a group that puts on track days in the Midwest. I am not a complete novice; I autocross as reguarly as possible and and have driven wheel to wheel in off-road racing.

This is a better safe than sorry expense for me. Even though I am being a moderate tightwad and only going used instead of new.
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:44 PM   #14
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Grab the used pads. They will be better than stock in any situation. Some people swap in track pads for a track day and then go back to street pads for the month til the next track day. If you did this on a regular basis then you would allways be putting your used pads on your car. The more times you check your brakes and do pad changes the smarter you will be.

p.s. Those used pads look fine and close to new.
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post


Would not be the case around here at all, that's why I asked him to clarify the type of event. Any HPDE that lets a first time drive in the novice group brake so hard that they are fading their brakes to the point of being a problem in 15-20 minutes is not managing their students properly. A novice thinking their going to be driving 10/10ths at their first event is also a recipe for failure IMO.
Are you serious?

Stock brakes will fade after maybe 2 heavy braking events.

Instructors, even in novice groups, do not tell their students to pedal the car down the straights. They tell them to ease into corners, work on their exits first, etc.

But no, I'm sorry. I all my years on track, I've never seen a novice group doing 80 mph down a 120 mph straight away. Students are encouraged to be at full throttle from corner exit, until a (initially VERY) reserved braking point.

That ALONE will require a brake upgrade after about 3 minutes, let alone 20.

You don't have to be Mario to run through 4th gear on a 1/4 mile long straight away, and such a practice is not discouraged in any way, even in a novice group.
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Old 03-26-2011, 02:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Are you serious?
Here's a thought (try it out): people have different opinions. I disagree with you, it's OK.

So by your logic, all these clubs should have big warnings on the registration forms: cars with stock brake pads, being driven on a track by a first timer in the novice group must have track pads? Come on, that simply isn't true. Virtually every HPDE I've been to (30+ over the years) the novice group looks like rush hour traffic with cars bottled up waiting for a passing zone, resulting in very few opportunities to drive hard for more than a few turns. All makes and ages of cars manage to get out on the track and learn (which is what these events are focused on for novices) and come back in one piece, even with those deadly stock brakes.

Your experience at different track with different clubs is obviously different.
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Old 03-26-2011, 10:12 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post

So by your logic, all these clubs should have big warnings on the registration forms: cars with stock brake pads, being driven on a track by a first timer in the novice group must have track pads? Come on, that simply isn't true. Virtually every HPDE I've been to (30+ over the years) the novice group looks like rush hour traffic with cars bottled up waiting for a passing zone, resulting in very few opportunities to drive hard for more than a few turns. All makes and ages of cars manage to get out on the track and learn (which is what these events are focused on for novices) and come back in one piece, even with those deadly stock brakes.
I said nothing of the sort. But the fact that your arguing against what is a clear improvement in safety seems quite odd.

Yes, some days the novice groups get bottled up, but they generally still run the straights at a good clip.

I think more importantly, and for the sake of argument...

Why on earth would have tell someone to take the risk that the run group will be slow? May he shows up to a PCA event, where even the slow pokes have the HP to reach decent speed on the straights, and he has to hold back all day because his brakes don't have the heat capacity? Maybe the event is only half-full. Why in gods name should he be taking that chance if he's willing to buy pads exactly?

In all my years instructing, I can't say I can remember a day when a student didn't at least a few times throughout the day get some clear track running. In a WRX, that means cooked stock pads, for even a mediocre student.

Sorry, your opinion on risking the safety, and perhaps more likely the enjoyment level of a novice driver is, imho, poor advice.

Again, not saying don't let cars with crappy pads out there...but it is just another thing the driver must be mindful of.

I can think of NUMEROUS times students have had to stop lapping and/or change their driving style to accommodate improper pads in a novice group.

There is just no reason to tell someone NOT to do it. That is far far different from telling someone they must do it.
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Old 03-27-2011, 12:05 AM   #18
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Wow, you really just want to preach. IMO (that means "In My Opinion") a first timer at an HPDE does not need to buy track pads, that idea is absurd. If he wants to go out and buy them, great, it won't hurt. Nor with a HANS and nomex suit but none of these are required. We always like to remind people like you that these events aren't NASCAR tryouts, a first timer should be learning the concepts, driving line and where to look.

Your username is ironic, get off the box OK?
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:18 AM   #19
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Nobody said he needs to buy them. But if he's willing to, why tell him not to? The worst thing that will happen is he has more brakes than he needs and everyone still goes home happy. Showing up at the track with stock pads, he will most likely have to hold back at some point to let the brakes cool. Not to mention, a novice student might not know how to handle the feeling of pad fade. Same thing with a HANS and nomex suit, no it's not required of a beginner but if he wants to use it, why not? Do you have to earn the right to be safe at the track?
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:35 AM   #20
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Thanks for all of the input and opinions.

I know all of you have much more experience than me and I decided to take the better safe than sorry route by buying track pads. I also bought RBF600 to flush the lines when it gets closer to the event. The last thing I wanted to do was overshoot a corner and wad up my $38k car.

The front pads showed up on Saturday and I am expecting the rears today. The fronts look excellent with a lot of life left with no glazing or cracks.

Now all of us Cincinnati STi guys need to pick a date for our first day at Putnam and sign up.
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:02 AM   #21
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One thing you might consider is Ti backing plates. They are not cheap $ wise, but I've never had a problem boiling the OEM fluid with the DS3000, or lesser pads. The Brembo calipers don't suck.
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:55 AM   #22
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One thing you might consider is Ti backing plates. They are not cheap $ wise, but I've never had a problem boiling the OEM fluid with the DS3000, or lesser pads. The Brembo calipers don't suck.
Yeah I need to ask TiC about them too. As an added advantage it makes my +55 wheels +54. One step closer to being herrafrush haha.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:16 PM   #23
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Yeah I need to ask TiC about them too. As an added advantage it makes my +55 wheels +54. One step closer to being herrafrush haha.
LOL

Brake pad shims don't alter wheel offset. I bought mine before TiC offered theirs. You might want to ask them about the bearing insulators. One more mm to hella flush

(I think they quoted me on the heat transfer numbers...)
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:23 PM   #24
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Ah yes that's what I was thinking of. They offer the hub and pad shims as a kit and I would most likely just do them all if I were to do them.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:50 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigusnickus
Now all of us Cincinnati STi guys need to pick a date for our first day at Putnam and sign up.
First weekend in may is the popular option right now. The more brakes you have the better, just ask schrags about running HP+'s at Putnam.
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