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Old 04-03-2011, 08:11 AM   #26
MattPersman
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so I got the new 1400s in the mail yesterday, opened them up today and 2 are rated at 1400 and 2 are 1380. so much for the matched set theory considering the first set I was shipped was 2 1380s and 2 1390s. really they could have put the 4 1380s together and the 4 others together for a closer "matching" but I guess my math is worse than the guy hacking up Five-0s injectors. really the moment of truth will be when I put them in and start it up, million misfire march or not

posting on the review thread also in case not everyone is looking here
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:14 AM   #27
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yeah Im interested too see how they act.


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^^ thats gonna be fun on a 16bit car.....you're gonna end up with a scalar of like 200cc
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:20 AM   #28
john 1badSTI
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don't take this the wrong way guys but the only way you can fix this situation the right way(not a bandaid fix) is to run a good SA,the factory ecu does not have the capability or resolution to control 1400+ injectors on e85 at idle let alone pump gas,it just can not control the pulse width down that low.Just my opinion a 12.5 to 1 afr is not good for the cylinder,sooner or later you will get cylinder wash down.Even tho good luck Matt I hope it works out for you,you have always been a great guy on here.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:42 AM   #29
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thanks John, will keep you updated it looked promising on 3 injectors. on E85 it should have been able to work better due to higher pulse widths
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:37 PM   #30
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OK so the updates are here. as stated Bruce, of Five-0 Motorsport, send me a replacement set of "matched" 1400s. He shipped them the day after he got my tracking number sending the old ones back.

got the itch to pop them in tonight after work and was hoping I got a good set so I didn't have to swap back again.

flashed my car and started it up and let it warm up because pulse width is a bit higher on a fresh start and all was well at this point. took it for a ride on my MAF tab route and ran smooth with no adjustments but definately needs some tuning cause we were fighting a faulty #4 injector last round of tuning. so a couple stray misfires but for 1400s on a small 2.5 at a low idle on pump gas totally acceptable for now. Phatron already has a new ROM waiting for me as I am typing this out. RON YOU ARE THE MAN! anyone looking for a tune seriously guys, Ron is a friggin wizard.

here is the car after installing the injectors warming up checking to see if it misfires


random shot lugging it through my neighborhood 5th gear about 32 mph light throttle.


thanks to Phatron of Phatbotti and Bruce at Five-O for the good service so far. will have more updates as we move forward
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:26 PM   #31
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Is that with an updated map that has the stock o2 scaling? I'm hoping that it is and that us pump gas can run this injector with the correct o2 and MAF scaling to get 14.7
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Old 04-05-2011, 06:38 AM   #32
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YES this does not have the "O2 Hack" done to the rom. its targets 14.7:1 just like stock. we did not go that route on my car after I figured out I just flat out had 1 bad injector originally. This is on 93 octane pump gas with no tricks other than a top notch tuner.

.5XXX ms injector pulse width at 900 RPM idle not misfiring stock ECU. I like a 800 idle when warm but are not going to try that till the rest of the tune is dialed in.
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Old 04-05-2011, 02:09 PM   #33
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Wow, thats like 0.375% Injector Duty Cycle. Impressive.
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Old 04-08-2011, 01:03 PM   #34
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Got my 1600's installed yesterday (after the 2000's wouldn't idle leaner than 12.5:1 on E85). I have the car idling at 14.7:1 now at 1000 rpm (272 cams, 86mm MAF) and they seem better so far. I get the occasional 2-3 misfire count on random cylinders but I always got that, even on my last injectors. On a warm start I notice that I'll get more misfires than on a cold start. I'll report back as I tune it some more. It looks like I'm going to be changing to SD on an AEM EMS very soon.
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Old 04-12-2011, 09:38 PM   #35
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I pumped all the 93 out of my car after work put 5 gallons of e85 in the tank and we just started tuning e85 tonight, I am sure I had a bit of 93 still in the tank but that should burn out with in a bit

initial map very smooth, pulse width was higher at idle so that is a plus cause we were maxing the bottom of the stock ECU on 93 octane.
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:03 PM   #36
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Good to hear, I sent my sidefeed 1200's back to Bruce and will be swapping for 1200 topfeeds. I have my new tgv's which I am porting this week and some topfeed fuel rails. I'm excited... and this better work...
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:52 PM   #37
06rexwagon
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Dialing my FiveO 1600's in on E85. The car has GSC S2 cams and an 86mm MAF, so it's not exactly easy to tune, even on smaller injectors. The car cold start's excellent, but warm start is really slow to fire. May need to look at the coolant temp cranking tables. If I drive the car for 20 minutes or more and let it idle, it will start to misfire. It's like the injector coils get hot. Fuel temp is only 90F so I know I'm not overheating the fuel.
On a side note, even with my old injectors, ever since I installed my Cosworth intake manifold my car stalls if I throw it in neutral or push in the clutch from higher rpm (4k+). I don't know if this is a function of the larger plenum and lower velocity or what. I've made it a bit better by adjusting the DBW tables but it still does it. I just have to downshift quick and keep the car in gear. Any suggestions?

Last edited by 06rexwagon; 04-13-2011 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:01 PM   #38
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what BOV are you running? a weak spring in a bov can cause that too

the only thing to do is mess with the throttle tables....i'd almost suggest throwing in some smaller injectors and getting that straightened out....then put the big ones back in. that way you're only battling 1 gremlin at a time.

try keeping the throttle open at 0
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Old 04-13-2011, 11:27 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
what BOV are you running? a weak spring in a bov can cause that too

the only thing to do is mess with the throttle tables....i'd almost suggest throwing in some smaller injectors and getting that straightened out....then put the big ones back in. that way you're only battling 1 gremlin at a time.

try keeping the throttle open at 0

APS dual vent BOV. It recirculates. I tried holding the thottle open at 0 and actually made it worse. The higher I went in requested torque, the worse it got. I get the best results completely zeroing the 0 TPS column. I did actually install a ported throttle body with the manifold. I might try the old throttle body and see if the return to idle improves.
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Old 04-13-2011, 11:43 PM   #40
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Any chance the car just needs to re-learn its idle parameters? Let me explain...

For some unknown reason, as far back as I can remember (stage 2), my car would NOT hold idle after an ECU reset. Fueling was fine, closed loop fueling enabled or disabled made no difference. After doing an ECU reset, when I would start the car it would idle fine, but as soon as I touched and released the throttle it would die. This would go on indefinitely until I finally broke down and spent 20 minutes "teaching" the car how to idle.

By "teaching" the car to idle, I mean I would bring the car to operating temp, pull into a parking space (holding my foot on the throttle to keep it from dying), and then SLOWLY (over the course of about 10 minutes) release my foot off the throttle. If I did it slow enough, I would eventually be able to pull my foot completely off the throttle and the ECU would be able to hold idle. Once I got to that point, I would just shut off the car, and from then on the ECU had no problems catching the engine at idle when I would release the throttle from any RPM, and it would never stall again. That is until I reset the ECU the next time. Remember, this is how the car behaved even running pure open loop, with closed loop fueling disabled, the problem was not at all fueling related.

This is how the car behaved from stage 2 with a stock intake, to aftermarket intake, to blow through, to rotated turbo, to PE 850cc injectors, to a built motor with cams, all tuned for, none of it had any impact on this strange idle behavior after an ECU reset.

Perhaps the strangest part about it all, is it went away completely when I moved from Texas to Colorado...it was obviously something related to the idle throttle plate control logic in the ECU (and the lower atmospheric air density fixed it), and for some reason the stock parameters weren't sufficient to maintain idle on my car. The ECU had the ability to ADJUST the parameters to work on my car, but unless I took the 20 minutes or so to "teach" it, it would simply die every time and never learn.

Might not be related, just thought I'd bring it up. Every time somebody has an odd "my car won't catch itself at idle when I release the throttle" problem, I'm reminded of it. The ECU obviously has a pretty advanced idle control system, but none of the parameters (other than target idle RPM) are defined in open source (or AP that I know of), so you might have to jump through some hoops to get the idle control system to learn what it needs to do to maintain idle on your car.
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Old 04-14-2011, 12:03 AM   #41
Phatron
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My car does the same thing after an ecu reset, but only when it's cold outside.....which decreases the density altitude and kinda goes along with what you've seen. When it's hot and I'm at 3000+ ft DA it doesn't happen.
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:08 PM   #42
LanceGantry
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Interesting thread! I'm currently having issues with my Five-O 1200cc side feeds. 2nd set I have tried. Can't wait to get this resolved.
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:40 PM   #43
Phatron
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post up the pic of them when you uninstalled them
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:38 AM   #44
2gnt2wrx
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I just got my EV14 1200cc topfeeds in and will be doing a conversion withing the next couple days. I hope theise work out.
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Old 04-28-2011, 12:40 PM   #45
NITROS
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I've gotten my bosch ev14 1200cc installed with no big problems. However, I cannot idle lower than 12.8 to 1. the car will also not run when dead team is less than .98.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1812939

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1&postcount=87
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Old 04-28-2011, 12:46 PM   #46
Phatron
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^^ why is your scalar so low? im assuming you're on a 16bit ecu?
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:32 PM   #47
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Yes sir, 16bit with rotated 3076r. I have to be. I tried to set it higher but it will wouldnt idle lower (learner) than 12.8 to 1.
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Old 05-24-2011, 04:26 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NITROS View Post
Yes sir, 16bit with rotated 3076r. I have to be. I tried to set it higher but it will wouldnt idle lower (learner) than 12.8 to 1.
Did you sort out your idle in the end with the ev14 1200's ?
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Old 05-24-2011, 10:31 AM   #49
06rexwagon
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I've got the 1600's idling at a solid 14.5:1 on E85 with my AEM EMS. It runs quite a bit better than it did on the stock ecu.
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:19 PM   #50
NITROS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nisstrust View Post
Did you sort out your idle in the end with the ev14 1200's ?
Yes, I did sort it out. I managed to get it to run and lowered the Deadtime. The reason it wouldnt idle with a lowered deattime was because the car wasnt getting enough fuel. I got the car to run at 20:1 afr. Once I knew this I scaled the maf and it runs like a champ.
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