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Old 02-01-2014, 09:31 PM   #1
ArizonaSTI
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Default cobb flex fuel

hi guys I been tryna find out if cobb has flex fuel capability with their software?
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:55 PM   #2
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hi guys I been tryna find out if cobb has flex fuel capability with their software?
Sadly no, they don't.
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:23 AM   #3
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Even if they did you'd need an ECA to help with fueling calculations.

I don't see this as something impossible, Cobb has outstanding support and a big list of things they've added. I think it's on their radar for sure.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:54 PM   #4
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It's getting much closer in the open source world. I'm running a slimmed down flex fuel blending map right now. If I had access to e85 I'd go deeper but I don't need a full feature flex fuel car. Google merpmod and read up at the RR forums. And if you use it, donate to him. Don't be a deadbeat.

Last edited by ProfessWRX; 02-08-2014 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:58 PM   #5
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Definitely not impossible! Our GTR platform is currently beta testing their Flex Fuel implementation

Flex Fuel is definitely an item on our list for investigation. The existing implementations leave a lot to be desired (require a lot of 3rd party hardware, aka Zeitronix controller) and we always like to make things as integrated as possible.

Cheers

Lance
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:26 AM   #6
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Cool thanks for the input I had been using open source, bought an ap v3 hoping to run flex fuel oh well
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:30 PM   #7
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I've spent a few years tuning GM vehicles without flex fuel for flex fuel operation on gasoline, ethanol or methanol. The best part is they already have an algorithm that attempts to set a new AFR and use an altered timing table. Putting that logic within a Subaru's ECU would be quite the task. I don't have much hope.
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:40 PM   #8
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I've spent a few years tuning GM vehicles without flex fuel for flex fuel operation on gasoline, ethanol or methanol. The best part is they already have an algorithm that attempts to set a new AFR and use an altered timing table. Putting that logic within a Subaru's ECU would be quite the task. I don't have much hope.
It's being done in open source. Evos already implemented a flex fuel rom that interprets a 0-5v output signal from an ethanol content analyzer to slide between two maps (pump gas and ethanol). This is how Aem and several other standalones do flex fuel as well. I have hope because I know it's possible.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:39 PM   #9
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GM does it without a sensor, it's all in a computer reflash. Brazil uses this method in their 100% of their vehicles. Fiat (Magneti Marelli) wrote the algorithm that most vehicles in the country use to relearn the fuel. GM & Ford have their own algorithms. Due to EPA reasons, the 2012+ Flexfuel vehicles all require an actual sensor like you mentioned.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:42 PM   #10
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I have an idea on a simple flex fuel algorithm that may work without an E sensor for the opensource folks. It may piggyback off the merpmod.

May not work at all, but it does in my head.

Last edited by ProfessWRX; 02-13-2014 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:45 PM   #11
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GM does it without a sensor, it's all in a computer reflash. Brazil uses this method in their 100% of their vehicles. Fiat (Magneti Marelli) wrote the algorithm that most vehicles in the country use to relearn the fuel. GM & Ford have their own algorithms. Due to EPA reasons, the 2012+ Flexfuel vehicles all require an actual sensor like you mentioned.
Yup we use that GM sensor for the Flex Fuel kits we make for the FRS/BRZ as well as the kits we supply to Boost Logic for their GTR's. We are hoping and waiting for Cobb to release any kind of Flex support because then we can offer the kits for WRX/STI's.

We have them in quite a few cars running around currently with great results. On P&L Stage 1 Turbo kits, we see about 300whp on 7psi pump and as ethanol content rises, so does boost to the tune of over 420+whp















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Old 02-14-2014, 12:29 PM   #12
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Indeed, there are many sources for Flex Fuel kits for GTR and BRZ -- GotBoost Performance, Visconti Tuning, Prime Motoring, etc. However, they're mostly the all the same thing: a Zeitronix ECA and some pre-made hoses and wiring. The Zeitronix piece is doing the real work, which is converting the sensor's digital output into 0-5v analog. The Flex Fuel hardware "kit" is easy. I built one on the bench for testing in our GTR in an hour. I also wrote code for an Arduino to remove the Zeitronix-provided hardware from the mix. The external hardware is straight-forward. Integration into the ECU is not.

We have some ideas about how to implement Flex Fuel in a more elegant manner, IE, no external ADC/DAC required.

Cheers

Lance
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:01 PM   #13
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That kit does look very nice BTW. It's great that there are a bunch of OE quick connect to AN fitting options becoming available. Those fittings look nice.
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
Indeed, there are many sources for Flex Fuel kits for GTR and BRZ -- GotBoost Performance, Visconti Tuning, Prime Motoring, etc. However, they're mostly the all the same thing: a Zeitronix ECA and some pre-made hoses and wiring. The Zeitronix piece is doing the real work, which is converting the sensor's digital output into 0-5v analog. The Flex Fuel hardware "kit" is easy. I built one on the bench for testing in our GTR in an hour. I also wrote code for an Arduino to remove the Zeitronix-provided hardware from the mix. The external hardware is straight-forward. Integration into the ECU is not.

We have some ideas about how to implement Flex Fuel in a more elegant manner, IE, no external ADC/DAC required.

Cheers

Lance
Yes they are very similar in design, we just wanted to improve upon what others were doing. Other kits were using rubber or plastic fittings so we improved upon the design and implemented quality AN fittings instead. The lines we use are E85 capable and we use fuel line clamps rather than worm clamps so it gives an even pressure around when slid over the stock fuel line. Every other connector is push to connect, no cutting needed and completely reversible. We have seen kits using worm clamps and that would cause leaking.

Can not wait to see your Flex offerings on the GTR!
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:07 PM   #15
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That kit does look very nice BTW. It's great that there are a bunch of OE quick connect to AN fitting options becoming available. Those fittings look nice.
Thank you!
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:16 AM   #16
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I have heard some bits about Ecutek taking on FlexFuel in Subarus, would love to see Cobb release an option for their Accessport, definitely a big selling point for me.
If/when this does get released, do you expect that it will require that the user purchase a new Accessport or other hardware, or is it going to be available to existing Accessport users?
If you can come up with something more elegant in the near future thats wonderful, but I'm really not opposed to a solution that integrates a flex fuel sensor and some hardware to convert it to a 0-5v signal. Whatever gets the job done properly!
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:29 PM   #17
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I have heard some bits about Ecutek taking on FlexFuel in Subarus, would love to see Cobb release an option for their Accessport, definitely a big selling point for me.
If/when this does get released, do you expect that it will require that the user purchase a new Accessport or other hardware, or is it going to be available to existing Accessport users?
If you can come up with something more elegant in the near future thats wonderful, but I'm really not opposed to a solution that integrates a flex fuel sensor and some hardware to convert it to a 0-5v signal. Whatever gets the job done properly!
Yeah ecutek currently has flex fuel support on 08+ cars only using rear o2 as 0-5v input. It shouldn't require a new ap if Cobb does expand their capabilities to Subaru. It's definitely nice but somewhat pricey for the Subaru market currently. Flex fuel kits for brz/gtr are near $1000 plus you have to get it tuned on top of that.
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:31 AM   #18
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bumping this due to the MOTOIQ article on doing it on a GTR.

Lance I know you see this, so know that I and many, many others want this for our WRX's and STi's.

so some potentially related news:

omg, omg omg,


" This particular GT-R was used in testing the new COBB Accessport V3 with dual-fuel calibration. An ethanol sensor is plumbed into the fuel line to detect the concentration of ethanol in the fuel. Using that data, the Accessport does on-the-fly map interpolation between the gasoline and ethanol maps to provide the maximum safe power level. I think this is really critical as E85 at the pump is not always the proper concentration of ethanol" -Excerpt from a motoiq article on COBB
Industry Insider: A Visit to COBB Tuning
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Old 05-15-2014, 12:19 PM   #19
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Put me down for a WRX kit!
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:59 PM   #20
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Just curious I'm not really super informed about this but what are the benefits to this over tuned for e85? Is there more than just not having to switch maps if u change fuel?
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:19 PM   #21
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The problem with e85 is that it may not be ethanol 85 it may be ethanol 80 or ethanol 89. It isn't regulated yet so this variation could change a lot of things on a tune and possibly kill a motor.
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:59 PM   #22
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Actually it is regulated to a minimum of 60% to be sold as E85.
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:08 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huevos Grande View Post
Actually it is regulated to a minimum of 60% to be sold as E85.
Very often I've seen it at e70 to e77. That wide of a percentage change would require a couple of maps at least.

So what this does is that it auto regulates your tune to compensate for the change.
otherwies you would have a tune for every 4 percentage points or so.

e 60, 64, 68, 72,76,80, 84
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:30 AM   #24
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I would swing from Tactrix to COBB in a second when you guys get flex fuel nailed.
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:47 AM   #25
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Well I was told by mike botti who tuned my car that with a good tune it won't make that much of a difference and also haven't had a problem at all! Then again I test the e and it never seems to drop below 85
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