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Old 04-07-2011, 02:55 PM   #1
Unabomber
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OMGHi2U My test to see if oil really matters or not.

After seeing 9000 people here who wear tin foil hats lamenting about the dangers of this oil or that oil, I decided to perform some tests to prove/disprove that oil really matters. I'm posting fact, not bullcrap, draw your own conclusions.

Car is 2004 WRX with 135,000 one owner miles. 100% of it's life has been Stage 1 to Stage 2 to 16G with 5000 mile oil changes. Why 5000? It's easy to remember.

Oil is Walmart Supertech 5w-30.
Oil filter is Walmart Supertech.

This is the crappiest oil I could think of and the total cost to me was $19 or around there for oil and the filter.

Yes, I have fuel in my oil. We are in the throws of spring here so it's playing hell on my tune/fuel trims as it adapts to 30 degree mornings and 60/70 degree days, which correspond to my driving times to work. Regardless of that, the crappiest oil in the history of the world is working fine.



Test #2 in a few months will be:

Oil: Renewable Lubricants Bio-Synthetic Super High Performance SAE 5W30
Filter: OEM Subaru

Parts cost total for these: $60
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Last edited by Unabomber; 04-07-2011 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:15 PM   #2
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Nice idea.

How long is your drive to work? Think you'll be following the same driving pattern over the next few months? I only ask because if you have any big trips or highway miles planned that will occur on one fill but not the other, that could invalidate the comparison, correct?

On a side note, I'm a little amused that you're trying out some engine wear experiments on your personal ride. Are you arriving at the point where you are ready to tempt fate and don't mind roughing up your motor yet?

In other words... are there big engine build or transplant plans in teh Unabomber's future?

Sorry if I'm going too far off topic or just plain come across as nosy.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:42 PM   #3
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Have you read this yet?

Forced Performance motor oil recommendations

They are talking specifically about 4G63 motors but regardless of what other high output motor that turbo is on, the results would be the same.

Now your motor is very mild compared to the one their tests and it will most likely live a long a prosperous life with that oil at such modest power levels. Different motors have different lubrication requirements, my 2.3L wouldn't last using such a poor oil.

Interested in seeing the results nonetheless, I'm subscribing...
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:01 PM   #4
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.................

Last edited by Uncle Scotty; 04-07-2011 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Steinbeck View Post
How long is your drive to work? Think you'll be following the same driving pattern over the next few months? I only ask because if you have any big trips or highway miles planned that will occur on one fill but not the other, that could invalidate the comparison, correct?

In other words... are there big engine build or transplant plans in teh Unabomber's future?
I think it's like a 40ish mile commute round trip to work and my driving pattern never changes. It ain't SAE testing mind you, but I drive the same year round. No big plans for me, just doing some tests to be an idiot so people care argue and justify their addiction to XXXX oil when my Walmart ghettotastic is doing just fine.
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VuickB6 View Post
Have you read this yet?

They are talking specifically about 4G63 motors but regardless of what other Different motors have different lubrication requirements, my 2.3L wouldn't last using such a poor oil.
Yeah, I read it. Robert, and others, make an interesting and great case for additives that don't meet the new eco friendly SM and SN standards for passenger oil. If I was running ZOMFG HP, I would use a ZDDP oil or additive like that article recommends. But I have a passenger car and prefer longevity in my oil changes to those blingy oils which cost a bunch or don't have the higher TBN (TBN in a round about way is the number that tells you if your oil is still "good" or not) of regular oils.

Yes....there are ZDDP oils that are cheap.
Yes....there are ZDDP oils that have a high TBN.
Yes....you can buy additives to a high TBN oil.

But, for a passenger car, there really is no need for that fancy crap unless you like it as some who like vintage guitars or rare wines.....something to occupy and expand your mind that interests you intellectually.
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:02 PM   #7
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all right I admit it....I been mixing oil for years


there I said it
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:18 PM   #8
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There's a difference between you mixing oil and some dip**** mixing oil though.
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:54 PM   #9
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Not bad at all. Most WRX UOA's I've seen don't score as well on copper.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:39 PM   #10
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Does the super tech 5W-30 bear the "Energy Conserving" mark? Viscosity and TBN looks good considering the fuel dilution.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:58 PM   #11
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Not sure if it does or not as the jug is gone. Not a bad sample, so far the bobistheoilguy dorks aren't hating either. Maybe I stumbled onto something here whilst trying to be a jackass....
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
Not sure if it does or not as the jug is gone. Not a bad sample, so far the bobistheoilguy dorks aren't hating either. Maybe I stumbled onto something here whilst trying to be a jackass....
it wouldnt be the first time things like that have happened
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:22 PM   #13
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Let me see if I can find the quote from somebody who knows a lot more than I do:

Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
And the UOA's don't prove one oil is better than another. That's not possible from that kind of testing.

Regardless, I agree 100% with your principle. Modern cars that are used as daily drivers will survive just fine on pretty much whatever you put in them. I really don't think oil composition means squat until you get into either high mileage change intervals or high performance/horsepower applications. Then again I'm not an "oil guy", so that's not really an informed opinion. But there are millions of cars on the road that get bulk oil from Jiffy Lube and they're not exploding left and right.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
Not sure if it does or not as the jug is gone. Not a bad sample, so far the bobistheoilguy dorks aren't hating either. Maybe I stumbled onto something here whilst trying to be a jackass....
I would think it probably does considering the low Zinc and Phos levels, but good results none the less.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:45 PM   #15
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From what I've always read, SuperTech filters and oil are G2G. I've never had an issue running either. Now maybe some of that remanufactured oil Autozone used to sell maybe on the pushing it side...
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:47 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrencher86
Let me see if I can find the quote from somebody who knows a lot more than I do:
And more on why williaty said that can be found here.

Supertech is actually decent oil. Depending where you live it will be made by either ExxonMobil or Warren(?).
And here's a new oil watchdog group with some results on SuperTech. Have a look around that site and you will find results on TRULY ghetto oils that are dangerous to use.

Even without the fuel, the viscosity probably would have dropped so no surprise there. Have you thought about a new tune to try adjust your AFR? Running rich is better than running lean though.

Fear of boundry lubrication would always be in my mind when seeing viscosity this low. But of course, SoA apparently doesn't have a problem with recommending oils that shear now that the turbo OCI is 7,500 miles.

At least your wear is low. Wear on your next uoa will appear to be higher from the esters cleaning out your cheap oil. A process called scavenging. Your oxidation and nitration are good to, but also expect that to change with your next results. It might be a bit bonky and Oil Analyzers will probably acknowledge that it may be from the different oil.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 04-08-2011 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:32 AM   #17
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I found a letter from Warren on the web (not a great source of trustworthy info) explaining that they just package stuff for Walmart.

The sources came up as Exxon Mobil and/or Pennzoil/Quaker State. I also read the four page MSDS for the Walmart Product that was filed under Warren. It showed no strange stuff in it; the mineral oils are heavily processed, was the description.

Although a synthetic, Supertech did not show a level of detail to indicate polyalphaolefin or other specific synthetic hydrocarbons.

However, MSDS sheets are safety and health effect oriented so you don't generally find formulation specifics in it. For example it lists Zinc and Calcium with out showing the molecular species or concentration.

The Zinc seems to be the elemental Zinc mass in ppm; the actual Zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate would be a larger number. You can get that by remembering your chemistry classes, and how to determine formula weights from atomic weights.

If forced to, I could probably run it safely, but would continue with my 3000 mile oil and filter changes based on how I drive and where I drive. So, the best approach here is to test it in a particular application, with some oil testing along the way to 5000 miles as Unabomber is doing.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:09 PM   #18
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All these UOA's I see are "post test". What was the oil like when it was new? Oil does vary batch to batch, how do you know what you started with?
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:38 PM   #19
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my "i swear by whatever brand of oil is on sale 20yr old theory" looking better and better every post.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBenn View Post
my "i swear by whatever brand of oil is on sale 20yr old theory" looking better and better every post.
+1
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Old 04-12-2011, 04:41 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
And more on why williaty said that can be found here.

Supertech is actually decent oil. Depending where you live it will be made by either ExxonMobil or Warren(?).
And here's a new oil watchdog group with some results on SuperTech. Have a look around that site and you will find results on TRULY ghetto oils that are dangerous to use.

Even without the fuel, the viscosity probably would have dropped so no surprise there. Have you thought about a new tune to try adjust your AFR? Running rich is better than running lean though.

Fear of boundry lubrication would always be in my mind when seeing viscosity this low. But of course, SoA apparently doesn't have a problem with recommending oils that shear now that the turbo OCI is 7,500 miles.

At least your wear is low. Wear on your next uoa will appear to be higher from the esters cleaning out your cheap oil. A process called scavenging. Your oxidation and nitration are good to, but also expect that to change with your next results. It might be a bit bonky and Oil Analyzers will probably acknowledge that it may be from the different oil.

-Dennis
and I think that much of the bearing issue is boundary lubrication and/or lack thereof with some of these weak ass oils

but what do I know???
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