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Old 04-20-2011, 08:24 AM   #1
-=C=-
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Default Any decent cng cars out there?

Cause that stuff is only $1.59 around here.

But besides school buses, a few F150s, and a few nondescript govt cars, I haven't noticed anything else.

So...school me on cng car choices.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:26 AM   #2
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I'm sure you can pick up a lovely nice white cng car at a government auction.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:32 AM   #3
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Do you have fill stations there?
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:38 AM   #4
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Honda Civic GX is CNG. They're hard to find, but out there if you look hard enough. They look exactly like any other civic, just with a little less trunk space.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodsWagon View Post
Honda Civic GX is CNG. They're hard to find, but out there if you look hard enough. They look exactly like any other civic, just with a little less trunk space.
This is pretty much your only option for a factory equiped CNG car in the US.

There are some converted government and company trucks out there, but I doubt they are for sale very often.

I believe most gas cars can pretty easily be converted though. You may have to import a conversion kit from Europe or Australia, but someone might sell kits in the US.

That would probably be your best bet, since you can use almost any car you want. And you can leave a gas tank in it so you can still use the car where you can't get CNG.

I've never seen a public CNG filling station in the US though. And one for your house isn't cheap.

Also keep in mind that a unit of CNG doesn't equal a gallon of gas, so you have to really make a comparison of cost per mile and factor in the up front costs.

It would be nice if the US had more CNG cars and stations. It can be cheaper and could easily be a popular option if it was just promoted more.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:05 AM   #6
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If you get stuck in the mountains you can just eat a lot of raw green onions and refill your tank.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chapstien
Do you have fill stations there?
Apparently there are now 2, according to the news this morning.

I wonder what the real costs are?
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:09 AM   #8
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I've filled up Ng at a public pump, melvindale Mi
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:11 AM   #9
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I advise driving one before getting teh cng boner. Put your foot into it and feel what happens.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxered View Post
I advise driving one before getting teh cng boner. Put your foot into it and feel what happens.
I drove one of those big ford fleet vans converted for Ng, I wasn't expecting much acceleration anyway, but yah now that u mention it, acceleration was really poor.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxered
I advise driving one before getting teh cng boner. Put your foot into it and feel what happens.
My mazda has no real power. I'm used to it. This is more of just finding out about them in general.

Last edited by -=C=-; 04-20-2011 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:12 PM   #12
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I was perusing junkyards in Sacramento when I ran across a factory converted CNG Crown Vic, white of course.

So you could use factory parts to convert a mercury marauder to cng.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:40 PM   #13
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Noobs take note. This is how NOT to bump a thread.


Ibshutupmeg
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:51 PM   #14
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Wouldn't it be more practical to run propane? At least considering it should be much easier to refuel while on the road. I guess if you have to worry about cold weather starts, it might not be quite as practical.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:25 AM   #15
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In Argentina most of the cars are 50/50 cng and gas(petrol). They don't run the gas until the car is warmed up, and it's mostly for highway use. That's where it is most practical. Because of the clean burning nature of both cng/propane, it keeps your engine CLEAN. Like sparkling. There are kits out there but expect to spend some bucks and put a lot of work in. It's easier if it's carb'd.
Check out: http://www.gotpropane.com/p1.html
And: http://www.jasperengines.com/alternate-fuel.php
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:42 AM   #16
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thank
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:39 PM   #17
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I'm bumping this thread because I've been doing a lot of reading on CNG vehicles over the past 48 hours. Yes, you read it right: the longtime EV proponent is learning something new.

A not so quick summary of what I've learned:

1) I would not trust my life with many (any?) of the non-EPA certified aftermarket conversions. Shoddy workmanship abounds, which isn't good when you're talking about 3,600 psi of a flammable gas: http://cngchat.com/forum/showthread....rming-pictures



2) Said non-EPA certified conversions were definitely illegal until September of this very year, iirc, when the EPA relaxed a little bit. Now >2 year old light duty vehicles merely have to pass a sniffer test + inspection + no codes thrown, afaik: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/fue.../420f12058.pdf . This still doesn't excuse the use of non-certified gas cylinders, pressure relief valves vented to the interior of cars (!), lack of shielding, poor mounting, etc.

3) EPA certified conversions are exclusively for domestic vehicles, probably because the major buyers are governmental agencies that have Buy 'Mericun provisions. If you're bored you can see the list of certified conversions here: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/fue...onversions.xls

4) There are now a grand total of two OEM CNG/bifuel vehicles out there, hot damn, plus a few OEM-sorta-supported conversions.





The OEM options are the Civic Natural Gas GX (CNG only), and the Ram 2500 CNG (bi-fuel: gas or CNG, automatically switching between the two, using CNG preferentially).

Ford and GM will let you order a CNG bi-fuel F-250/350 or Sierra/Silverado 2500 through their dealers, but they don't actually build 'em. Instead they ship vehicles to Impco or Westport, respectively, who complete the conversions and provide support for them. (This means you have to go to, say, a Ford dealer that also is a distributor for Westport if you wanted your CNG F-250 serviced.)

These options are all not cheap. The Civic Natural Gas costs about $6k more than the otherwise feature equivalent Civic EX, and the Big 3 CNG pickup truck options cost between $10k and $12k extra.



5) CNGprices.com is a good resource for figuring out where public CNG stations are/aren't in relation to where you live and how much they charge per gallon of gasoline equivalent (gge): http://www.cngprices.com/station_map.php . In Seattle there's a filling station near where I'll be living that sells CNG for $1.89/gge, for reference, and in the Midwest prices are often lower yet.

6) One can save more money yet per gge by fueling at home, but this probably doesn't make economic sense. Maintenance, electricity, and (most significantly) the up-front cost of a $4-9k + installation VRA (vehicle refueling appliance) mean payback time will be on the order of 200,000+ miles.

7) Older CNG vehicles are a crapshoot for several reasons. One is that older systems that didn't use injectors are troublesome, another is that the vehicles themselves are old, crappy domestic vehicles +/- tough prior fleet use, and the last is that CNG tanks for automotive use expire after 15 years.

Yeah, you read that right. Forget the overblown issue of batteries on EVs possibly needing replacement after 100,000 miles: CNG tanks legally must be taken out of service at 15 years, full stop. This is regardless of actual usage. Have I mentioned that these tanks are not cheap, and are not available at all for some/many older models of CNG vehicles?
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:40 PM   #18
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Whew.

Despite all the above–the high price of CNG vehicles and the high price of refueling at home–I think there's an argument to be made for CNG nonetheless:

The fuel itself is cheap. It's domestically sourced. The vehicles, while rare, are available, and now there are two OEM options and two factory-sorta-supported 3rd party conversions.

Most importantly, at least for someone still shell-shocked from the gasoline shortages all around Long Island post Hurricane Sandy, is that a CNG vehicle could offer freedom from the whole "gasoline grid", as it were.

In other words, if I had a CNG-capable vehicle, a home CNG VRA, and either electricity service intact or a generator (+/- NG itself) I could give a big ol' honey badger style **** you to the rest of New Yorkers scrambling for gas.

I like that idea, yes I do.
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:48 PM   #19
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Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:48 PM   #20
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If you want us to see the pictures at your first link you'll have to rehost them. I'm not joining that forum just to see a few pics.
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:50 PM   #21
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Good stuff, thank. I always appreciate your posts regarding alternative transportation options. I'd definitely give a cng Civic a look...
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgb4187 View Post
Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words Words words words
Super Cliffs Notes just for you:



+



Quote:
Originally Posted by VpointVick View Post
If you want us to see the pictures at your first link you'll have to rehost them. I'm not joining that forum just to see a few pics.
Fair enough. That forum has exceptionally strict moderation, probably due to prior spam problems, with manually activated accounts, changing captchas just to post a reply, etc.

The tanks bolted to the roof with the filler between the two in the photo that I rehosted is probably the worst. Others in that thread include wood blocks propping up tanks, tie downs/hose clamps and the like "holding down" tanks, and this beaut that I must rehost:



Yup, that's the 3000-3600 psi CNG tank sitting RIGHT NEXT TO THE DRIVER. :facepalm:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balantz View Post
Good stuff, thank. I always appreciate your posts regarding alternative transportation options. I'd definitely give a cng Civic a look...
It'd be a great vehicle for your commute, but sadly limited for everything else. It's CNG only and Washington only has 5 stations, all within the Tacoma-Everett axis. Like I mentioned above in that block of text (point #6) home refueling is possible but then your cost savings go out the window due to sunk costs for the VRA.

My advice: stick with what you have.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:06 PM   #23
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:07 PM   #24
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Any decent cnw cars out there?
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:07 PM   #25
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Anyway, my personal fantasy for a bug out vehicle now is is a Ram 2500 CNG + a Fuelmaker FMQ-2-36 + a NG generator for my future hypothetical home.

Put those together and you have 700 miles of combined CNG + gas range to get the hell out of Dodge if that's your choice, and/or the ability to indefinitely cruise around town on CNG via refueling at your own home, outside your very own garage. Plus, since it's a bi-fuel vehicle, you could still use it on regular gasoline once outside the hot zone…
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