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Old 04-22-2011, 06:05 PM   #1
LIQUIDSK8S
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Decided to start a new thread for everyone to discuss the different options for stock location twin scroll turbos. Many of us have been following the Blouch thread, Moore Performance etc, and it wouldn't have been appropriate for me to hijack their threads with discussions of competing products, which brings us here.

I haven't seen a thread dedicated to discussion on all the brands, so this one will cover any info found of each along with prices and hopefully first hand results to compare. Hopefully this will help those that are looking into twin scroll to know what their options are while saving them time.

Here's the list I've come up with so far.

DOWNPIPE SOLUTIONS

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...roll+downpipes


Litchfield turbos
"LM400 (HP rating) – S (Exhaust housing size S=small L=large) 60 (Compressor cover size)

Examples of popular Turbo combinations:

The LM400-S60 turbo is rated for around 400bhp with near standard spool up characteristics. This Turbo is designed to run on the 2.0litre STI engines and uses the smaller internal volute in order to maximize boost response. The turbo uses the 0.60 Compressor cover with the 58mm intake. This is the same spec of turbo we ran on our 2009 Type-20.

The LM450-S60 turbo is rate for around 450bhp with peak boost arriving 500-700rpm later than the LM400. This Turbo is also designed to run on the 2.0litre engine and uses the smaller internal volute in order to maximize boost response. The turbo uses the 0.60 Compressor cover with the 58mm intake.

The LM450-L60 is the 2.5litre version which produces 450bhp and uses the larger internal volute which does not become overwhelmed by the larger engines exhaust gas flow. This turbo uses the 0.60 and offers instant throttle response and no lag making a superb street turbo."

They have recently announced that they have new billet wheels available, no pricing yet but many believe it to be the same. They also do thermal coating as standard.

http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/l...roll_turbo.asp

Pricing range from $2,400-2600 without shipping/duties

Dyno Results

LM480L60
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=416
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=430
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=661

LM450S60
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=521

LM400S60
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=728
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=831

LM400-s60 billet vs VF42 (2.0l JDM AVCS (intake), supporting mods: Kelford 264/260, ID725, 3-port solenoid, adjustable cam gear (exhaust). 3'' exhaust)
WHP
FUEL: VP100
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=676
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=681

Thread on Scoobynet
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-g...oll-turbo.html




Scoobyclinic (made by Blouch)

These turbos are custom spec for SC by Blouch and use Billet wheels.

SC42TS 420BHP No other details yet.
http://shop.scoobyclinic.com/index.p...product_id=137

SC46TS 460BHP Believed to be 56.5mm Turbine 71mm Billet wheel, 7cm housing (possibly recently increased to 8cm or 10cm, 47lbs of flow)
http://shop.scoobyclinic.com/index.p...product_id=139

SC50TS 500BHP. No exact details yet, most likely similar to the Blouch 3.0XT-R-TS
http://shop.scoobyclinic.com/index.p...product_id=141

Dyno Results

SC46 twin scroll E85
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=318
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=776
SC46 twin scroll on meth
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=898
SC38 Twin scroll E85
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=815
VF37 vs SC46 TS both on E85
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...postcount=1557

List of other SC turbo dyno graphs
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=929

Scoobynet thread. One thing to note is that they have a SC46/36/38/30 single scroll and a twin scroll, so make sure when you see a dyno figure for a SC46 that it is for the twin scroll.
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/trader-anno...an-better.html


Blouch

1.5XT-R-TS: 47lb Ball Bearing Garrett CHRA 56.5mm Turbine, 71mm wheel.
http://www.bptstore.com/Subaru-WRXST...ger_p_130.html

2.5XT-R-TS (using VF37): 47lb Ball Bearing Garrett CHRA. 56.5mm Turbine with 71mm wheel. This is the same as the new 1.5XT-R-TS, but the 1.5 has slightly better volutes. This turbo is not listed on their site, but they will still make it.

2.5XT-R-TS (new housing): 49lb Ball Bearing Garrett CHRA. 60mm Turbine with 71mm wheel. This is not listed on the site, but they will make it. They recommend you just go with the 3.0XT-R-TS though.

3.0XT-R-TS: 55lb Ball Bearing Garrett CHRA. 60mm Turbine, 76mm wheel.
http://www.bptstore.com/Subaru-WRXST...ger_p_135.html

Turbo Blankets
The DEI T3 blanket will fit both the 1.5XT-R-TS and 2.5XT-R-TS

Dyno Results

Blouch 1.5XT-R-TS (V8 EJ207, 90 + meth)
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2604726

Blouch 2.5XT-R-TS (I believe this is one of the old versions)
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=691

Blouch 1.5XT-R-TS on a 2.5 with 8cm housing
Fuel: 93
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=599

Same car but with the 10cm housing installed.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=641

Blouch 1.5XT-R-TS vs HTA68 vs FP Green
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=647

Blouch 1.5XT-R-TS
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2411269

Blouch 2.5XT-R-TS (new housing) E85 2.5L
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=542


Moore Performance

This is a interesting one being that they have created their own header setup to use EVO turbo's. Limited info on these right now but great potential with many turbo options. They are currently working on a setup for TMIC.

UPDATE: New custom downpipe along with uppipe/header which work with the stock location turbo.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=637

Prices:
Base kit - $2950 (includes everything but the turbo)
With turbo- Starts at $3950


One benefit with this kit is you can sell your current setup entirely, which is really a pro for those with stock twin scroll. This could knock $1200-1400 off the price.

IWSTI thread
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/engine-p...turbo-kit.html

Dyno graphs

Custom Borg Warner
http://forums.nasioc.net/forums/show....php?t=2153550
Evo9 turbo
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2899976-post138.html
Not sure
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2994396-post192.html
Evo8 used turbo
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/3224989-post298.html

Videos
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2893323-post123.html




GT Pumps

http://www.gtpumps.com.au/subaruturbos.html

GTPS05T (TD06SL2-73HTA) twin scroll
GTPS03T twin scroll (TD06SL2-20G)
GTPS02T twin scroll (TD05H-20G)

Pricing: Not listed for the twin scroll

Thread at Rexnet
http://www.rexnet.com.au/forum/index...os-at-gtpumps/





Tomei Arms twin scroll

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-ca...rms_rset3.html

Turbos:
M7760: $1780 on their site (others say $2400)

Dyno graph by them, not impressive IMO
http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-ca...60graf_e_b.gif

Thread comparing it to the single scroll version on a EJ205, did poorly but can be blamed a bit on the EJ205 not having avcs.
http://forums.nasioc.org/forums/show....php?t=2016008

NEW results: triniscoob running it with supporting mods and meth (321whp/283tq) and mentions it is horribly laggy and poor overall.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...postcount=1583



Owen Developments

Prices/Name of turbo not known yet.
Dyno sheets
Road Dyno logs
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Last edited by LIQUIDSK8S; 06-07-2014 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:31 PM   #2
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It's a tough call for me between the LM450S60 and the SC46 TS. The LM450 get's a 3 inch inlet vs the 2.4 of the SC46. Very few dyno graphs out there, and no SC46 TS on pump while there are no LM450's on E85.

There's two SC46 TS's on E85 one with TMIC making a identical power curve to the LM450 on VPower while the FMIC makes 30bhp more (different tuners). There is a SC46 single scroll (I think) dyno sheet on Vpower which makes the same power as the LM450 on VPower, but it makes 60lbs more TQ, BUT it doesn't hold peak HP as well. The LM450 dropped from 460bhp at peak to 430bhp. The SC46 dropped from 460 to 370.....but this could be due to the tune/boost etc, details we don't have.

Being that with the LM450 I can sell my VF37 for prolly $600ish, that will make it only $2-300 more than sending my turbo to Blouch. Not a big difference in price, it makes the decision even more difficult.
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:33 PM   #3
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Thank you very much for this compilation, it's much appreciated!
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:44 PM   #4
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Great thread...

From the research Ive done, the GTPumps, Scoobyclinic, and Tomei all use the same hotside (TD05 or TD06 18G/20G) for their turbos.
(Except the SC46 which uses a Vf37)
Only the compressor side and wheel might be different.

The Litchfield looks to be the best and thats why it costs much more.
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:41 PM   #5
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well i like what you have put together, kinda stinks, i gave up on stock locations and went with a bit twinscroll t4 and have to say i miss the spool some, but im keeping all my stock stuff incase i want the insta spool again lol or untill someone offers me the right amount for it
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Old 04-23-2011, 08:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanathanq83
well i like what you have put together, kinda stinks, i gave up on stock locations and went with a bit twinscroll t4 and have to say i miss the spool some, but im keeping all my stock stuff incase i want the insta spool again lol or untill someone offers me the right amount for it
I was headed that route too but the idea of spending maybe $2k as opposed to close to $5k turned me on to these options.
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Old 04-23-2011, 08:21 AM   #7
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I'm not seeing any massive spool differences. I'd love to see what a green on a 207 w/avcs does vs some of these bigger twin scrolls. It would have to be big for me to change from my very drivable green with stock headers and stock style dp. Interesting options though. Thanks for posting it. If anyone wants to mail me a kit, I'll post the differences side by side
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Old 04-23-2011, 09:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrutzky
I'm not seeing any massive spool differences. I'd love to see what a green on a 207 w/avcs does vs some of these bigger twin scrolls. It would have to be big for me to change from my very drivable green with stock headers and stock style dp. Interesting options though. Thanks for posting it. If anyone wants to mail me a kit, I'll post the differences side by side
The idea behind the twin scroll is the responsiveness of the power, it won't spool any faster or make any more power. Transitional response is the primary benefit. Me personally, I just want to reach my power goals while having the least amount alterations to my engine bay having the Ver. 8 leaves me with a choice. Go SS, with all new piping, headers included. Or stick with my vf37. This is a third option.
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakjak00 View Post
The idea behind the twin scroll is the responsiveness of the power, it won't spool any faster or make any more power. Transitional response is the primary benefit. Me personally, I just want to reach my power goals while having the least amount alterations to my engine bay having the Ver. 8 leaves me with a choice. Go SS, with all new piping, headers included. Or stick with my vf37. This is a third option.
On the road it will actually spool faster as well when comparing road dynos, but like you said, the transient response is where the big difference is.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:54 PM   #10
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looks of research here man, good thread, looking forward to seeing what you decide to do.
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Old 04-23-2011, 09:49 PM   #11
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Good thread. Subscribed.
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Old 04-24-2011, 01:52 AM   #12
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Got an email out to blouch and Mike about the Vf37 turned Dom 2.5 xt-r. I'll be able to hopefully to give you guys a total cost and turn around time soon.
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Old 04-24-2011, 09:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakjak00
Got an email out to blouch and Mike about the Vf37 turned Dom 2.5 xt-r. I'll be able to hopefully to give you guys a total cost and turn around time soon.
Total cost is $1,600 before shipping, this requires sending in the VF37. Doing a P&P and thermal coating will cost a additional $320.
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:25 AM   #14
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I was just on litchfield's site, it looks to me like the 76mm (3 inch) ported inlet is an additional option. That makes the base turbo price for the 450-60s $2400 plus another $206 for the larger housing. Also the 450-60s is rated to 450bhp (hence the name) where as the polka pickle is rated to 490bhp
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:37 AM   #15
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I may go with blouch simply for being in the states, and knowing how well they support their turbos and rebuilds.
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Old 04-24-2011, 01:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakjak00
I may go with blouch simply for being in the states, and knowing how well they support their turbos and rebuilds.
This is what I'm leaning to as well. That and it will add value to my turbo being that I feel it lost value after the deadbolt conversion which effectively ruined this turbo. Plus there's not enough data for me to go with the Litchfield, and Blouch has received as much if not more praise. Either one will leave you with a significantly better turbo than stock.
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Old 04-24-2011, 01:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakjak00
I was just on litchfield's site, it looks to me like the 76mm (3 inch) ported inlet is an additional option. That makes the base turbo price for the 450-60s $2400 plus another $206 for the larger housing. Also the 450-60s is rated to 450bhp (hence the name) where as the polka pickle is rated to 490bhp
The 76mm is the same price, it's the L60 vs S60 that sees the price difference.
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Old 04-24-2011, 01:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIQUIDSK8S

The 76mm is the same price, it's the L60 vs S60 that sees the price difference.
Ah I see that now.
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Old 04-30-2011, 10:26 PM   #19
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Good thread. But there is no way in H-E-L-L I would ever spend $2000ish on these bolt-ons when they are only going to net you maybe 30-50whp over what a stock vf36/37 will give ya. Thats why like seanathanq I decided to retain my stock twin scroll header and build a custom rotated twinscroll setup 8-)
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Old 04-30-2011, 10:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prokaw875 View Post
Good thread. But there is no way in H-E-L-L I would ever spend $2000ish on these bolt-ons when they are only going to net you maybe 30-50whp over what a stock vf36/37 will give ya. Thats why like seanathanq I decided to retain my stock twin scroll header and build a custom rotated twinscroll setup 8-)
It really depends on your current parts. If you already have the twin scroll headers but want to make 400whp you can do one of these for under $2k or spend close to $4k to switch to a rotated setup.

Granted, a new up pipe to run rotated twin scroll turbos/EVO turbos would be nice. I'd much rather spend $150-200 on a up pipe than $3k on the Moore setup.
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Old 04-30-2011, 10:56 PM   #21
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Less modification to the engine bay is worth it to me. Even the TD05-20G would make 350-360 on an ej20. The version 8 motor stock tuned w/ light bolt ons only makes about 280-290 on a mustang dyno, I don't know where people are finding vf37's making 350, less it be on a higher reading dyno.
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Old 05-01-2011, 01:17 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakjak00 View Post
Less modification to the engine bay is worth it to me. Even the TD05-20G would make 350-360 on an ej20. The version 8 motor stock tuned w/ light bolt ons only makes about 280-290 on a mustang dyno, I don't know where people are finding vf37's making 350, less it be on a higher reading dyno.
E85. If they claim higher numbers than 270-280 on pump they have an unrealistic correction factor or are delusional. lol

I have a v8 with a VF37, Tomei EL headers and a Tomei eXpreme DP.

@ 21.5 Psi peak, I was making 272whp/307wtq on airboys. Switching to E85 later this week. Should be interesting.
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Old 05-01-2011, 10:22 AM   #23
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Do let us know the results of that, or link to a proven power thread why did you lose the stock manifold?
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Old 05-01-2011, 10:49 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fellstar View Post
E85. If they claim higher numbers than 270-280 on pump they have an unrealistic correction factor or are delusional. lol

I have a v8 with a VF37, Tomei EL headers and a Tomei eXpreme DP.

@ 21.5 Psi peak, I was making 272whp/307wtq on airboys. Switching to E85 later this week. Should be interesting.
There are other supporting mods to take into account. I agree the guys saying 350whp on pump are doing something wrong, but 300whp on pump is common with the EJ207. Trap speed is the more realistic thing to look at though. I trapped 111mph on the VF37 without a tune (not smart), and Dug-E-Fresh was trapping 115mph with the VF36 on pump (claimed 330whp).
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Old 05-01-2011, 12:24 PM   #25
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Another point to add, if you look at the SC46 vs VF37 its making an extra 100bhp. At near 400whp it's making a good 60-70whp more while not losing any response or spool.
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