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Old 04-23-2011, 12:52 PM   #1
05FozzieMan
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Member#: 203253
Join Date: Feb 2009
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Easton, PA
Vehicle:
05 Forester XT
Red

Default UOA: '05 Forester XT EJ255, Mobil 1 AFE 0w30, 5100 miles

The engine power output is more than stock closer to stock STI power levels since it is Cobb Stage 1 93 octane OTS map.

It was driven all this winter. A little aggressive driving here & there. Some good WOT runs when warmed up, so not so warmed up 3/4 throttle runs to high rpm. I'd say that at least 60% was easy going highway or city driving though.



Equipment make: Subaru
Equipment model: 2.5L Turbo
Oil use interval: 5,100 Miles
Oil type & Grade: Mobil 1 AFE 0w30
Make-up oil added: Maybe .5 qt
Miles on unit: 72788
Air filter: Cobb Intake
Oil filter: Pure One


Iron 14
Chromium 0
Nickel 0
Aluminum 3
Copper 4
Lead 0
Tin 0
Cadmium 0
Silver 0
Silicon 10
Sodium 8
Potassium 1
Titanium 0
Molybdenum 114
Antimony 0
Manganese 0
Lithium 0
Boron 51
Magnesium 155
Calcium 2205
Barium 0
Phosphorus 699
Zinc 842
Fuel <1
Soot <.1
Water <.1
Vis @ 100C: 10.1
TBN 3.23
Oxidation 14
Nitration 27
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Old 04-23-2011, 02:56 PM   #2
bluesubie
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Nice showing for an EC oil with a low HTHS! It even stayed in grade!

The highway driving probably helps. I guess the iron is M1's signature.

-Dennis
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:10 PM   #3
SubLGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
...........I guess the iron is M1's signature.

-Dennis
Do you remember this 13 page thread at BITOG about M1 and iron?
It's a classic.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...1423239&page=1
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Old 05-31-2011, 06:46 AM   #4
05FozzieMan
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Ya I did HAHA
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Old 05-31-2011, 07:44 AM   #5
bluesubie
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I shouldn't have been surprised when they avoided the question, but I thought XOM would have addressed the high iron when they did the Q&A. Something to do with the reaction of the Alkylated Naphthalenes that they use. That's a theory that I believe I read at BITOG.

-Dennis
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Old 05-31-2011, 04:42 PM   #6
SubLGT
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Yes, Exxon Mobil made some valid technical points about iron in UOAs, while at the same time implying that the formulation of M1 has nothing to do with the elevated iron seen on UOAs. I do remember Dyson saying at one point (around 2006?) that camshaft protection was a weakness of M1 compared to other oils.

From the BITOG Q&A:

"Iron particles in used oil are to be expected, as the iron in engine components, such as cam shafts, timing chains and gears, piston pins and rings and cylinder liner, wears down during normal operation. To determine if the level of iron particles is higher than it should be, a wide range of factors need to be assessed. These include whether the car is driven in normal or harsh operating conditions, the amount of highway driving versus city driving, whether the engine is subjected to stop-and-go driving, and the volume of cold starts and temperature extremes the engine endures. Also, car and engine model and frequency of oil changes will have a significant effect on how much iron ends up in the engine oil.

All these factors can impact the amount of iron that goes into the oil, so it is necessary to consider all of these elements when establishing what a typical level of iron should be. For example, a highly engineered vehicle/engine design operated under relatively mild conditions (e.g., mostly highway operation) over a standard oil drain interval may generate iron levels as low as 20 – 25 parts per million. Alternatively, an engine of average design, operated through more severe conditions such as an extended oil drain interval, may yield iron levels in the range of 200 – 300 parts per million. Based on the iron-content numbers of the UOA analysis typically described by BITOG users, the stated levels should not be a concern and show that Mobil 1 is protecting engine parts as promised.

Also, used oil analysis (UOA) is only one dimension when it comes to assessing engine oil performance. Ultimately, UOA should be combined with engine inspections and measurements to more accurately assess the performance of the oil.

If iron content of a UOA is considered higher than expected, the next step is to determine the cause of the premature wear. In order to do this, evaluate other data points from the UOA report to obtain a more complete picture as to what’s going on in the engine. Premature engine wear is often due to mechanical issues, not the oil. For example, elevated levels of lead and/or copper, particularly in combination with a positive glycol dilution test, would indicate that there may be a coolant leak within the engine. Coolant dilution in the engine oil (which would occur from something like a crack in the head gasket) would cause rapid acceleration of wear metals in the engine oil."
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Old 05-31-2011, 05:00 PM   #7
SubLGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
......... I do remember Dyson saying at one point (around 2006?) that camshaft protection was a weakness of M1 compared to other oils............
I did find the 2006 thread where Terry dropped this little bomb:

"Good, maybe cam pad wear reductions will now be proportional to the cost of the highly touted product. The Basic M1 [non-EP] sure leaves a lot to be desired in wear control in the valve train."

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...=188940&page=1
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Old 05-31-2011, 05:28 PM   #8
bluesubie
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What I meant was that I thought that XOM would have addressed the high iron with a statement that made sense.

I miss those days of free, uncensored advice and insight from Terry.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 05-31-2011 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 06-01-2011, 08:15 AM   #9
05FozzieMan
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Red

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On the upside of all this Edge flavored Syntec seems to smooth at the higher RPM's better than the AFE. It is a little more muted in that range that before...probably meaningless lol.
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Old 06-01-2011, 02:09 PM   #10
SubLGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
I did find the 2006 thread where Terry dropped this little bomb:

"Good, maybe cam pad wear reductions will now be proportional to the cost of the highly touted product. The Basic M1 [non-EP] sure leaves a lot to be desired in wear control in the valve train.".............
What is interesting about Terry's comment, is that it was echoed a few years later by Valvoline, when they publicly asserted that M1 5W30 fails to meet the Sequence IVA wear requirement for SM and GF-4, and fails at preventing excessive cam lobe wear.

http://www.jobbersworld.com/valvolineq&Apage1.htm
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Old 06-01-2011, 02:16 PM   #11
SubLGT
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In this UOA of 0W30, iron is only 14 ppm. But given the limitations of your typical $25 oil analysis (i.e, does not measure total wear metals in the oil, does not measure wear metals trapped in the filter, or metals trapped in deposits/sludge/varnish, does not measure wear particles greater than 10 um, etc), the true iron concentration could be much higher.
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:39 PM   #12
bluesubie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05FozzieMan
On the upside of all this Edge flavored Syntec seems to smooth at the higher RPM's better than the AFE. It is a little more muted in that range that before...probably meaningless lol.
Wow, now you're running N. American Syntec? Thanks for being a brave soul and running these new GF5 oils.

-Dennis
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:42 PM   #13
bluesubie
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Vehicle:
04 FXT

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubLGT
In this UOA of 0W30, iron is only 14 ppm. But given the limitations of your typical $25 oil analysis (i.e, does not measure total wear metals in the oil, does not measure wear metals trapped in the filter, or metals trapped in deposits/sludge/varnish, does not measure wear particles greater than 10 um, etc), the true iron concentration could be much higher.
PQ Analysis FTW.

http://www.lubrigard.com/products/li...Q-ANALYSIS.pdf

-Dennis
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Old 06-04-2011, 01:34 PM   #14
05FozzieMan
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Location: Easton, PA
Vehicle:
05 Forester XT
Red

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Wow, now you're running N. American Syntec? Thanks for being a brave soul and running these new GF5 oils.

-Dennis
I was in a pinch and GC was no where to be found as I wanted to give that a try again. First time with GC just didn't seem great at all.
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