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Old 04-23-2011, 10:49 PM   #1
Bad Noodle
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Default Gonna need some help here - building a rotated kit - have tons of questions

First, the parts I have for now:

Header and uppipe to mod:



Rest of the stuff excluding the downpipe:



PE5857, 46mm, and some vbands

The first part is to mod the upipe to rotate the turbo. So here's what I was thinking:



Then add a little piping to the top to raise the turbo a little and get it into place

So the first question about the uppipe. It's got some kinda weird reducer inside:


Not sure what to do about that. Is it better to get new piping and get rid of it or keep it and add new pipe to the top where the turbo flange is?

The other problem I have is how to weld on the vband flange as the uppipe uses none standard size tubing... any suggestions?

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Old 04-23-2011, 11:16 PM   #2
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your making this out to be harder than it needs to be.

As far the uppipe, I would cut off all the tubing and start fresh from the cast flange. Use a transition that goes from the 2 3/8" o.d and neck it down to 2 1/8" o.d tubing. then route that up to where you want the turbo. easy as pie.
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:50 PM   #3
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yeah I know I'm going overboard a bit but I want to order the needed piping from a single supplier so measure twice cut once. I have no local source for SS so everything needs to be an internet order, which is a pain if I don't order the right bends the first time around.

Last edited by Bad Noodle; 04-23-2011 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 04-24-2011, 12:23 AM   #4
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you can use a 2.5"-2" transition just cut to the right OD of the flange ID and the tube OD that your going to use. 1-90* bend and 1' of straight. Thats all you will need. Then a little bit of 1 7/8" tube for the wastegate if thats what the precision flange is counterbored for, i know the tial flanges are counterbored for 1 7/8" for the 44mm units. and 1 3/4" for the 38mm units.
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Old 04-24-2011, 12:27 AM   #5
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Sweet dude, thanks
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Old 04-24-2011, 12:27 AM   #6
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Im picky with my supplies and luckily I have SPD Exhaust local. Nice clean quality material. I only use them for mock-up material type stuff, then use a local tube bender to mandrel bend it after that. For the downpipe I used 2-90* bends and about 2' of straight tube. Pretty cheap when you do stuff yourself.

I just finished the final version of the rotated kit i'll be producing using the tial housing. Having 321ss mandrel bent for the uppipe with hopefully a few inconel pieces as well.

Need any help or suggestions feel free to ask away.
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Old 04-24-2011, 01:36 AM   #7
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I was gonna chime in but kelly nailed it lol.
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Old 04-24-2011, 09:04 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIGWERKS View Post
Im picky with my supplies and luckily I have SPD Exhaust local. Nice clean quality material. I only use them for mock-up material type stuff, then use a local tube bender to mandrel bend it after that. For the downpipe I used 2-90* bends and about 2' of straight tube. Pretty cheap when you do stuff yourself.

I just finished the final version of the rotated kit i'll be producing using the tial housing. Having 321ss mandrel bent for the uppipe with hopefully a few inconel pieces as well.

Need any help or suggestions feel free to ask away.
Awesome thanks. Did have another? Does a JB turbo have to be perfectly horizontal or can it have a little pitch? like 10 deg?
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:50 AM   #9
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have another what? To be honest im not really sure on the allowance of angling jb turbos. I know the garretts have a window of 15*. I jsut havent messed with that many jb turbos except for a small # of bw units which i had around 5*.
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Old 04-25-2011, 07:43 AM   #10
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Is it just me or does the piping OD of the up-pipe look fairly huge?

Are you going to stick with tigwerks suggestion and redo the piping for it?
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Old 04-25-2011, 08:08 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by project_skyline View Post
Is it just me or does the piping OD of the up-pipe look fairly huge?

Are you going to stick with tigwerks suggestion and redo the piping for it?
Yeah that uppipe is a monster. I was thinking of just not using that header and uppipe. Instead get a solid ebay unit and mod that. Or just start with a flange and buy some piping and do it from scratch. The only reason I wanted to use a prefabbed uppipe is to make sure it clears the steering rack. Then mod it from the midpoint up.
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Old 04-25-2011, 02:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle View Post
Yeah that uppipe is a monster. I was thinking of just not using that header and uppipe. Instead get a solid ebay unit and mod that. Or just start with a flange and buy some piping and do it from scratch. The only reason I wanted to use a prefabbed uppipe is to make sure it clears the steering rack. Then mod it from the midpoint up.


Just build one. if you keep it close to the head you will have no problem. I built mine out of car on the motor then installed it with the motor.... made a couple changes then finished welding it after it was mocked up. Having a blowen up block would have saved me lots of time.
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Old 04-30-2011, 09:31 AM   #13
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New Topic: Turbo Tilt

So wondering how much I can tilt the journal bearing turbo. Found some info on a gt12 that said
Quote:
Turbocharger axis of rotation should be normal to direction of gravity within +/- 15* when installed on level ground
and found some on a ball bearing that said
Quote:
it is advantageous to tilt the turbocharger about 25 about the axis of shaft rotation.
What do you guys think?
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Old 05-01-2011, 12:44 PM   #14
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And fyi, did some measuring and the pitch of the stock turbo is 5 deg and roll is 0 deg relative to the TGV mating surface on the head.
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Old 05-01-2011, 04:27 PM   #15
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a couple deg of tilt or rotation is fine, you just dont want too much so you can avoid pooling the oil inside the chra which will have it leak pass the seals. Just use common sense and you'll be fine. I tilt mine around 10* to allow a smoother flowing downpipe. Its generally isnt tilted along its axis. The only thing tilted along the axis is the chra a couple degrees for smooth oil drainage not allowing any kinks or anything that could inhibite oil flow back to the block.

But like i said earlier dont overthink it, use the guidelines from the mfg on max deg you can rotate/tilt the turbo and use your common sense on how and where you want the turbo.
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:33 PM   #16
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Well, months later and here is where I'm at:



Got most of the kit done, but I'm running into snags at every corner. I need to run some fitment issues by you guys to see if they're real problems or paranoia:

First the DP fitment sucks. Everything fit just fine when it was mocked and tacked, but after being welded, the dp ended up off by an inch. Dunno how, but I did what I could to salvage it but ran into these concerns:

The DP is really close to the AC line



But it's rubbing the water drain line



Any way to reroute it?

Had some oiling issues:



The nut that holds the banjo fitting to the line was too wide to let the banjo fitting sit against the head. So I I ground down the nut... hope this works

The blue oil return line could not be run back to the oil pan without kinking. So I got a 90 deg molded piece of heater hose and ran what I could with the blue then attached the heater hose with a barbed fitting, clamped with pinch clamps, wrapped in DEI cool tube and finished off with heat tape.
Hope this works

And finally since this is a oil only turbo, I deleted the oil reservoir by doing the following:



I don't think this should cause any problems, but good to double check



Yeah, things are too great, but still clawing forward
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:04 AM   #17
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Morning bump
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:02 PM   #18
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You can us a metric to an fitting in the block and make a oil supply hose. I cant give any pointers on the drain because its all coverd up. On the coolant header delete you can delete the hose going to the radiator and cap it off, but keep the one conecting the two heads. With the turbo like that I dont think you could ever use a 4inch inlet, the E cover you have would be it. Did you make a whole new uppipe as recommended? You may have to start from scratch on that dp again too, if the turbo was tilted back a little your dp would have a better angle as Kelly said.
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:51 PM   #19
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Thanks for the info.

Do you know what size metic to an fitting I would need? Want to make sure I get the right one.

For the oil drain hose, would something like:

Work if it's wrap in insulation tubing?

And yeah I redid the up pipe. Welded up the dp mods and that fits too now. Trimmed the AC drain tube, should cause any problems. And I don't think the dp will hit the ac line... so it looks good so far.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:25 AM   #20
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Why not use a -10 an drain at the turbo and hose clamp it at the oem drain? I dont really trust auto parts store rubber hose for hot oil drains. Ill try to find the package my oil supply fitting came in.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:01 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scby rex View Post
Why not use a -10 an drain at the turbo and hose clamp it at the oem drain? I dont really trust auto parts store rubber hose for hot oil drains. Ill try to find the package my oil supply fitting came in.
I'm assuming you're talking about using a braided line with an -10AN fitting? How flexible are those?

I started off with



From ATP turbo, but the line was too stiff and couldn't make the bend so it just kinked. I think other lines will too unless they have a really short bend radius.

Edit
I searched and can't find any -10 AN male to 5/8" hose fittings.

So far, the oil drain parts are killing me, I think I spent way too much just on random fittings that don't work, probably around $150 doh

Last edited by Bad Noodle; 10-26-2011 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:34 AM   #22
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And on more?

With the banjo bolt problem, can I put a couple crush washers between the banjo and the block to give it some space or will they leak?
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:14 AM   #23
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Couldn't you run the above silicone hose with a anti-kink spring around it??
Using multiple washers is kind of a no-no.
It can work (and I have had it work) but it's not the kind of thing to do.
Seeing it is your own car, try it, just keep an eye on the bolt, and see if it's leaking.
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:51 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Scooby lover View Post
Couldn't you run the above silicone hose with a anti-kink spring around it??
Using multiple washers is kind of a no-no.
It can work (and I have had it work) but it's not the kind of thing to do.
Seeing it is your own car, try it, just keep an eye on the bolt, and see if it's leaking.
you're probably right, but I don't know about those. I've seen them at pep boys and found myself wondering how well they really work and how fast they rust.


I also found that the oil feed line is supposed to be 12mmx1.5 which kinda doesn't sound right as everything else on the car has a 1.25 pitch except for the flywheel bolts that have a 1.0 pitch
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:59 PM   #25
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You need the npt to an 45* elbow at the oil drain. I'm assuming your using the brass barb. The supply banjo size sounds right.
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