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Old 07-17-2002, 01:17 AM   #1
HamFist
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Default motor geek stuff...

Well, since I have another car now, and my impreza is going the built N/A route...lets ponder a few things! I have the resources to go to 12:1 compression, possibly 12.5:1. Everything but the physical engine block and crank is getting replaced. I'm pondering a few things that may make more power. I've gotta ask a few things, tho...maybe some of you can help. Don't tell me it can't be done, either, cuz I'm gonna do it anyway...

1. Do boxer engines inherently have more combustion stability? This allows cheating and the ability to run higher compression without any ill effects. Or, do I have it completely backwards, and it's worse, or there's nothing at all to gain in combustion stability.

2. I think it's safe to say this is a heat sensitive engine. Where's the heat problems aside from the piston crowns and skirts? Valve guides, seats, head gaskets...anywhere? I should probably ask what blows up next besides piston crowns and blown head gaskets from too much boost. I've heard of spun bearings, broken rods and cranks from too much boost...but they all sound like abuse explosions!

3. Anyone put in larger intake valves? How about just one intake valve per cylinder and left the other alone ?

4. Anyone messed with the rocker assemblies on phase 2 blocks?
Titanium cam rollers for instance ???

5. Can I run multiple throttle bodies with a link ecu? I haven't found a function in it that allows it...Motec does, tho!

6. Can I get a 9lb chromemoly flywheel?

7. Can I get an amen, hallelujeh, and $5,000 donation ...
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Old 07-17-2002, 01:20 AM   #2
Eric SS
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swap and N20. gone. : (

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Are you planing on running 12.5:1 on the street? If so, be prepared to spend $5.00/gallon for gas.

Eric
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Old 07-17-2002, 01:32 AM   #3
Reciprocity
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If street driveabilty isn't too much of an issue...nor smog...then I would search search search the net for both sand rails and airplanes. Subaru 4 cylinders have been used in both with great successes...and quite often they are N/A. I don't know of any specific sites but I have seem some really impressive sandrail Subaru motors.

My suggestions...
-Pick up a copy of Grassroots Motorsports and look through it. I believe there is a company that advertises in them that does some pretty insane N/A build ups. At the least you can find some companies that will be able to prepare parts for you.
-Search the net for Subaru motors in both airplanes and sandrails. Companies may be able to point you in the right direction for bits and pieces.
-Find a company, with a good rep, that does head work. The key to all of this is going to be two fold...head and intake manifold. If you want to develop SERIOUS N/A power you are going to need some good cams, great headwork, and individual throttle bodies...perhaps just an improved intake manifold.

I have a friend who has many thoughts on the manner...but neither him nor I have the capital. I'll contact him and perhaps he can help you with some companies...if you are truly serious.

NC
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Old 07-17-2002, 01:59 AM   #4
LVSUBARU
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Two or more throttle bodies would be sweeeet!!!!!
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Old 07-17-2002, 09:15 AM   #5
HIHO
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What engine do you want to use, 1.8, 2.0, 2.2, 2.5?

Here is a good site I was just informed of----http://www.funco-motorsports.com/subaru_motor.htm
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Old 07-17-2002, 01:50 PM   #6
HamFist
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Thanks guys. I hadn't thought about sand rails. JUN supposedly has a 2.0 running 13:1 compression pumping around 350-375 or so. I'll be able to run cheaper gas providing better heat The intimidator monte carlo runs 13:1 on pump gas. It's heat and engine management are the big keys. This has taken up a moajority of my research. So has working with a link ecu. I'm working on those with turbos at the moment. Anything else to reduce friction and lower temps is going into this motor. Redline won't be too sky high, but it's up there... 8500ish. I've been pulling all kinds of tricks out of my ass to try and make this work. I want to get all of my parts ceramic coated in one shot to save the trip. Sti injectors are part of the plan, along with fuel rails. I'd love to get a set of 550's working really well on an N/A car Talk to ya'll later. I'm goin' fishin'!!!
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Old 07-17-2002, 01:56 PM   #7
Reciprocity
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Speaking of heat issues...

In an older SCC mag there is an article about the buildup of their 300ZX-TT. They had some really extensive engine work done on it including some very interesting sounding metal treatements for the bottom end. I don't know about the company and the work they did other than what I read from the article but it looked like some real quality stuff. However, I am sure it was expensive.

I'll see if I can dig up the issue...

NC
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Old 07-17-2002, 02:06 PM   #8
Eric SS
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swap and N20. gone. : (

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by HamFist
The intimidator monte carlo runs 13:1 on pump gas. It's heat and engine management are the big keys.
Not the street version. It's just a Black Monte Carlo with some badges. The Real NASCAR Monte Carlo runs 13:1 with leaded high octane gas.

Eric
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Old 07-17-2002, 03:07 PM   #9
HndaTch627
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Quote:
Originally posted by Imprezinator


Not the street version. It's just a Black Monte Carlo with some badges. The Real NASCAR Monte Carlo runs 13:1 with leaded high octane gas.

Eric
exactly!
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Old 07-17-2002, 03:30 PM   #10
Reciprocity
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I thought all the NASCAR cars ran on regular Union 76 gas? I mean the high octane stuff they sell at their stations. Maybe their insane marketing team is just getting to me.

NC
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Old 07-17-2002, 05:40 PM   #11
Eric SS
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2000 2.5RS w/ EJ22T
swap and N20. gone. : (

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by dcrawford
I thought all the NASCAR cars ran on regular Union 76 gas? I mean the high octane stuff they sell at their stations. Maybe their insane marketing team is just getting to me.

NC
No way. It is Union 76 gas but nothing you can buy for street use.

Eric
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Old 07-17-2002, 05:44 PM   #12
Eric SS
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2000 2.5RS w/ EJ22T
swap and N20. gone. : (

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Imprezinator


No way. It is Union 76 gas but nothing you can buy for street use. It's 110 cotane leaded.

Eric
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Old 07-17-2002, 09:19 PM   #13
LVSUBARU
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What about water injection to cool the intake charge, or a fuel cooler? Whould that lower the overall engine temps?
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Old 07-17-2002, 09:48 PM   #14
HamFist
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Well...back on topic...I can run 93 if I put enough into heat and engine management. As for that Intimidator Monte carlo, I thought it was a 13:1 compression v6 making a shade under 300hp. Oh well...I don't have the article to back it up.

Anyway, I was looking at water injection, too. It seems like a very good alternative. I've seen it on a few turbo rs' and it helped hold back detonation with no ill consequences. It didn't increase power, but it helped what was already there. There's a few places close by I can get 100 octane unleaded from. No worries for that! I actually prefer running it to anything else. It kills my CEL

As far as coatings and such goes, there's plenty of places in the engine I can apply ceramic coatings. My question is if they chip or rub off eventually. Teflon and molybdenum are the other two on my list for friction coatings. Since the factory uses them in the phase 2 blocks, I know they hold up well.

OH!!!!WHERE IS THE PHENOLIC SPACER GUY?!?!?Please PM me with your prices!

Rings and bearings have been a problem area for me to find info. Any thoughts? I haven't talked to clevite yet to see if they have any bearings listed for us. Also, for forged pistons, how to the expansion rates compare now to what they did 10 years ago?
Do coatings help with that, so you can run tighter clearances? I've heard that cryo-treatment of parts helps with thermal expansion as well. Off to dinner.

P.S....caught a trout this afternoon. a 6 inch behemoth
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Old 07-17-2002, 09:51 PM   #15
Reciprocity
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Must...replace...intake...manifold.

YOU MUST!

No question, no arguement. It's IMPARTIVE.

NC
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Old 07-17-2002, 10:00 PM   #16
Chav
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Nice catch. Oil squirters will help cool the pistons off considerably. You might want to look into that. I dunno how ur gonna run 12.5:1 on 93 octane, but I commend you on trying and I hope you can pull it off. 8500rpm and the right cams with good porting and you are gonna get massive power from this engine. Just make sure the bearings and rods can handle the stress and the pistons are nice and light. The stroke on the ej25 is pretty big so things are really gonna be stressed at 8500rpm.

Is this engine gonna be daily street driven? How often do you plan on tearing the engine down or do you at all?

For all this I wouldnt really count on the link ecu. The only good setting it has for n/a is the vacuum mode and it isnt all that great. I would pick another ecu.

Good luck! Please keep us updated on this monster!

-Chav
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Old 07-18-2002, 12:35 AM   #17
HamFist
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damn....you guys are on to my stuff and I didn't even have to say much. Nice goin' Chav . 12:1 compression is where I'll luckily end up. I still need room for nitrous . Specific numbers aren't as important as what the engine acutally does in person, with you behind the wheel. Also, how many times it can repeat that feat. I've been trying to strike a balance of improved low end torque, midrange, and high-end. (You should see my cousins truck. The theory works, even in N/A form!) I still believe that an N/A engine making comparable torque and HP numbers as a turbo will keep up with or beat a turbo. One build or another just emphasizes more kinds of stresses than another. Ya just gotta get there and then compare!

250+ hp is my goal. I'm thinking waaaayy past off the shelf stuff. There will be a list of names to contribute to this far longer than just my name alone. There's usally a central person reponsible for most of the ideas and assembly for a motor. When we become that central person, blame becomes moot as we try to build the best we can...That's just like that person we'd pay all that money to in the first place to get us where we the customer can't go yet. Cobb, SDR, B-Spec, Alititech, MRT, even prodrive---They're all people doing the best they can with what they have. Long live ingenuity and the personal persuit of perfection! Accidents happen and they always suck for somebody's pocketbook! Better engineering just means less accidents.
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Old 07-18-2002, 12:57 AM   #18
HamFist
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Default Just found this!

this is something that will keep ya'll busy reading

www.swaintech.com

Every coating you could possibly imagine.
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Old 07-19-2002, 06:25 PM   #19
HamFist
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BUMP~~

Well...found a few different oil coolers, and read some more info in the coatings. Looks like 500 bucks takes care of coating everything I was looking at. Still haven't found much on piston rings, tho. That website for sandrails was pretty neat, too. There's a few spots for aircraft mods on the net with subie engines, but they're very expensive and don't sell to the public. A $300 welder just looks more and more appealing. Has anyone run Yoshio's cams yet? I read a thread at www.rs25.com about a fella who liked them, but hit a mailbox avoiding a deer.
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