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Old 11-28-2011, 12:37 PM   #1
th30dd7
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Default Why is everyone so hyped up over the Viper remote starts?

Rant -

I have installed several 5901 and 5701 systems and find them to be low quality. I'm just curious why everyone seems to like them so much? I install Compustar with iDatalink Blades. They have many more functions and options and the remote screens don't shift when you drop them. I guess I can say the one way Vipers arent bad. Does everyone get them because thats what someone else has?
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Old 11-28-2011, 01:15 PM   #2
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they are very readily available. especially at retailers such as best buy. they are the most well know. everybody has heard of them. you may be right that the quality is poor but people buying a remote start for the first time wont know that. they just know the name is big so they think thats the one to get.
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:01 PM   #3
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I didn't realize best buy sells them uninstalled. That makes much more sense.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:09 PM   #4
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Viper/DEI also owns Clifford they are the largest and the most technology-driven. Clifford was/has always been the technology leader. When they got into $$ trouble and DEI scooped them up in an instant.

Compustar makes some nice stuff. And there are several reputable "non-DEI" alarm/RS companies out there. Its just that DEI kinda owns the market and is most known. Best buy behind it just adds to the sheer volume.

DEI has upwards of 5 different "levels" of product under various names Python, Sidewinder, Viper, etc... then Clifford has a couple levels too.

I've always had Clifford alarms and wouldn't ever have anything else, myself. But have installed lots of brands over the years...

When it comes to alarms/RS systems Brand means nothing... INSTALLER is everything. Whatever brand the INSTALLER likes is the brand your putting your trust in, because that is the brand HE/SHE trusts... simple really.

Rob
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:14 PM   #5
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Only problem I had with Vipers were the Blue two-way remotes, 7901 or something like that - and the more recent 5101 (but they have since solved the software issue).

I find that they have all the wires and relays built in, and have nice thicker wire.

Compustar I find is great too. Do like some of the features with the AUX functions, but the remotes just feel too cheap - and are also expensive as hell to replace.

I guess they all have their + and -'s. But as an installer I prefer installing Compustars too.

Ever done a white tiger alarm/starter from japan? wow that was an interesting read - lol!!
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:32 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by typhoonk View Post
Only problem I had with Vipers were the Blue two-way remotes, 7901 or something like that - and the more recent 5101 (but they have since solved the software issue).

I find that they have all the wires and relays built in, and have nice thicker wire.

Compustar I find is great too. Do like some of the features with the AUX functions, but the remotes just feel too cheap - and are also expensive as hell to replace.

I guess they all have their + and -'s. But as an installer I prefer installing Compustars too.

Ever done a white tiger alarm/starter from japan? wow that was an interesting read - lol!!
I've done a few alarm/r.starts from other country companies... always interesting haha.

I'm a geeksquad autotech so all I have experience with is Viper and Directed products. however i'm wanting to try out compustar. So far the only thing i dont like about it, is how cheesy the keyfobs look (the 1-mile range keyfob). the screen looks like an old handheld video game from 1990
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:02 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Story Worm

I've done a few alarm/r.starts from other country companies... always interesting haha.

I'm a geeksquad autotech so all I have experience with is Viper and Directed products. however i'm wanting to try out compustar. So far the only thing i dont like about it, is how cheesy the keyfobs look (the 1-mile range keyfob). the screen looks like an old handheld video game from 1990
FYI we're test piloting compustar and codealarm in the top 150 install bays. 75 got one brand, 75 got the other, if you'll notice the remote start widget now includes some units you don't probably have in your store. As far as other brands, I've done a compustar, wasn't impressed with the having to pair the remote to the system. The audiovox (compustar) units sound pretty nice since though when they are paired with the flashlogic bypasses (their own brand). Although if I recall, compustar the brains are the same, but the remotes determine the type of system it will be? 1-way, 2-way, etc. Or am I thinking of a different brand?

Never really had a problem with dei units, 95% of the time its user error and damage or installer incompetence. 2nd to last issue was the avital units with the bad antennas which they sent replacement for, and the latest is something with the parking light flash polarity fuse, but they put a sticker for the messed up units.

I go with what we have, that way if we do have an issue, it's replaceable, instead of the $100 remote start deal customer found on amazon.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:41 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by CSVT_2004 View Post
FYI we're test piloting compustar and codealarm in the top 150 install bays. 75 got one brand, 75 got the other, if you'll notice the remote start widget now includes some units you don't probably have in your store. As far as other brands, I've done a compustar, wasn't impressed with the having to pair the remote to the system. The audiovox (compustar) units sound pretty nice since though when they are paired with the flashlogic bypasses (their own brand). Although if I recall, compustar the brains are the same, but the remotes determine the type of system it will be? 1-way, 2-way, etc. Or am I thinking of a different brand?

Never really had a problem with dei units, 95% of the time its user error and damage or installer incompetence. 2nd to last issue was the avital units with the bad antennas which they sent replacement for, and the latest is something with the parking light flash polarity fuse, but they put a sticker for the messed up units.

I go with what we have, that way if we do have an issue, it's replaceable, instead of the $100 remote start deal customer found on amazon.

Yea i know about all that stuff, just wasn't sure if I was able to say that on a public forum
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:16 AM   #9
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Compustar has a brain for Start, Alarm, or Start/Alarm. You then use an RF kit which includes the remotes and antennae. The brains are universal for most of the offered systems and the RF kit determines what system you will have. Yes you have to pair the remotes but that takes a whole minute to do. The brains run about $50 and the RF kits vary depending on what system you want. The only problem I find with the DEI systems is the LCD screens shift if the remote is dropped and they don't offer as much functionality. I just installed a Compustar 2W901R-SS with 2 iDatalink modules in my car for $300. The price is not bad if you do the install yourself. Yes the remotes are expensive but thats because the brain is only $50.
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:56 AM   #10
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I've installed both Compustar and DEI and they are both the same to me. I usually go with DEI because they usually come out a little less expensive (I use the Python series). The only issue I had with Compustar is the price to replace remotes.... and the availability of purchasing without installation.

Since when did Best Buy start selling the DEI's without install? And god help those stores receiving Code Alarm. When I worked at C.City as the install manager, we carried the Code Alarms for about 6 months and then dropped them like a bad habit. I would say well over 1/2 - 3/4 of the units that went out came back with defective brains within a year. And at first the company would replace them under warranty (about a 1-2 week turn around for sending the brain out and getting it back). Then after a while it became around 5-6 week turn around and sometimes they refused to cover it. So we dropped them quick and anyone that came back after that received a new starter because it was a hell of a lot easier.
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Old 11-29-2011, 07:23 AM   #11
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I've had terrible luck with CodeAlarm and AudioVox systems, as well as the systems some vendors sell here (wtf were they called again?)

I've had no issues with any Dei product, and now install and use the 5901 system exclusively. The only "issue" I've had is the screen on my remote on my own car no longer works...after I whacked it into a wall on the end of a lanyard.

EDIT: Best Buy (and Circuit City) will sell you systems uninstalled, but you have to pay full installed Retail. I remember my dad bought me a DEI RS from CC and he paid full retail, took the system home and I brought it back to get it installed.
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Old 11-29-2011, 09:53 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by vision.dynamix View Post
I've had terrible luck with CodeAlarm and AudioVox systems, as well as the systems some vendors sell here (wtf were they called again?)
Zenesis? I installed 2. First one was bad out of the box and smelled like burned electronics. The 2nd one to replace the first worked for a bit and then stopped responding to their remote.

Open up a Zenisis and it's all no name components and circuitry. Open up a CompuStar, Samsung and Texas Instruments relays and processors.

Ever try installing AST UltraStarts? They had some very nice installer friendly features but were POS's. They needed to be "reset" all the time and when I worked full time installing, we had a very high failure rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vision.dynamix View Post
I've had no issues with any Dei product, and now install and use the 5901 system exclusively. The only "issue" I've had is the screen on my remote on my own car no longer works...after I whacked it into a wall on the end of a lanyard.
DEI is pretty good, (some of their stuff I'd pass on...). I've been using the CodeAlarm by Audiovox this season (after I let my friend's shop use it all last season) and they have been very good for 1-way systems. The older CodeAlarm before Audiovox revived the name was crap! I'd rather install a Bull Dog from CostCo or BJ's. Otherwise I love CompuStar and that is the only thing that I'll put into my own car.

I've been installing for over 11 years now and the above is just my opinion. I like what I like and don't like what I don't like.

Last edited by jay25RS; 11-29-2011 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 11-29-2011, 10:26 AM   #13
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Did you install this on your 2011 and is it a manual? I am trying to find what installs easiest on my 2011 WRX. I was looking at using a viper 5301 and a DLPK but compustar would be fine if it integrates better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by th30dd7 View Post
Compustar has a brain for Start, Alarm, or Start/Alarm. You then use an RF kit which includes the remotes and antennae. The brains are universal for most of the offered systems and the RF kit determines what system you will have. Yes you have to pair the remotes but that takes a whole minute to do. The brains run about $50 and the RF kits vary depending on what system you want. The only problem I find with the DEI systems is the LCD screens shift if the remote is dropped and they don't offer as much functionality. I just installed a Compustar 2W901R-SS with 2 iDatalink modules in my car for $300. The price is not bad if you do the install yourself. Yes the remotes are expensive but thats because the brain is only $50.
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Old 11-29-2011, 10:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Story Worm

Yea i know about all that stuff, just wasn't sure if I was able to say that on a public forum
Don't see why not, would be the same thing as someone going to one of those stores and posting about it. Main thing is just to make sure people understand that it's a test, no gaurentee that we will carry them in the long run...

Quote:
Originally Posted by th30dd7
Compustar has a brain for Start, Alarm, or Start/Alarm. You then use an RF kit which includes the remotes and antennae. The brains are universal for most of the offered systems and the RF kit determines what system you will have. Yes you have to pair the remotes but that takes a whole minute to do. The brains run about $50 and the RF kits vary depending on what system you want. The only problem I find with the DEI systems is the LCD screens shift if the remote is dropped and they don't offer as much functionality. I just installed a Compustar 2W901R-SS with 2 iDatalink modules in my car for $300. The price is not bad if you do the install yourself. Yes the remotes are expensive but thats because the brain is only $50.
Cool, so I did have the brand right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by klarowe
I've installed both Compustar and DEI and they are both the same to me. I usually go with DEI because they usually come out a little less expensive (I use the Python series). The only issue I had with Compustar is the price to replace remotes.... and the availability of purchasing without installation.

Since when did Best Buy start selling the DEI's without install? And god help those stores receiving Code Alarm. When I worked at C.City as the install manager, we carried the Code Alarms for about 6 months and then dropped them like a bad habit. I would say well over 1/2 - 3/4 of the units that went out came back with defective brains within a year. And at first the company would replace them under warranty (about a 1-2 week turn around for sending the brain out and getting it back). Then after a while it became around 5-6 week turn around and sometimes they refused to cover it. So we dropped them quick and anyone that came back after that received a new starter because it was a hell of a lot easier.
We DO NOT sell DEI units without basic labor. Per DEI's warranty we sell all of their units with basic labor, additional parts/labor is extra. Also we DO NOT remove them for free either. From the stores I've talked to, the new systems sound pretty bad ass for the compustar at least.
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Old 11-29-2011, 10:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay25RS View Post
Zenesis? I installed 2. First one was bad out of the box and smelled like burned electronics. The 2nd one to replace the first worked for a bit and then stopped responding to their remote.

Open up a Zenisis and it's all no name components and circuitry. Open up a CompuStar, Samsung and Texas Instruments relays and processors.

Ever try installing AST UltraStarts? They had some very nice installer friendly features but were POS's. They needed to be "reset" all the time and when I worked full time installing, we had a very high failure rate.



DEI is pretty good, (some of their stuff I'd pass on...). I've been using the CodeAlarm by Audiovox this season (after I let my friend's shop use it all last season) and they have been very good for 1-way systems. The older CodeAlarm before Audiovox revived the name was crap! I'd rather install a Bull Dog from CostCo or BJ's. Otherwise I love CompuStar and that is the only thing that I'll put into my own car.

I've been installing for over 11 years now and the above is just my opinion. I like what I like and don't like what I don't like.
Yes Zenesis. I installed about 5 before I gave up on them. I refuse to touch them now.
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Old 11-29-2011, 10:55 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by blackhawk77 View Post
Did you install this on your 2011 and is it a manual? I am trying to find what installs easiest on my 2011 WRX. I was looking at using a viper 5301 and a DLPK but compustar would be fine if it integrates better.
It's not really rocket science to "integrate" any remote start into a Subaru. You just need to know if you have an earlier model (i.e. pre 2006) that you have a neutral position wire that reads (-) when in gear and later models read (+) in gear. Just diode isolate and tie into the hood pin wire or the brake wire accordingly.

You'll also need to install a relay to bypass your clutch switch. This I found was most difficult being that there was very little slack on mine and it is in close quarters.

Remember that you will also need at least 1 more relay to power up the 2nd Accessory and 2nd Starter wire in your car.

A 556/u will handle the chip in the key or you can make one with wire, and a relay.
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Old 11-29-2011, 10:57 AM   #17
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Yes Zenesis. I installed about 5 before I gave up on them. I refuse to touch them now.
cheers to you! They are truly crap!
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Old 11-29-2011, 10:58 AM   #18
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You shouldnt need a relay to bypass the clutch on a Subaru.
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Old 11-29-2011, 11:03 AM   #19
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I have heard mixed info that a canbus module is needed to arm/disarm the factory alarm properly on the 2008+ subarus, any thoughts on that? Does it at least reduce the wires you need to tap?
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Old 11-29-2011, 11:03 AM   #20
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I just installed the Viper with Smart Start the IPhone app. So far so good. Seem to work for me and not really sure what other options that i would really need. Its on my 2012 STI.
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:47 PM   #21
th30dd7
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Originally Posted by blackhawk77 View Post
I have heard mixed info that a canbus module is needed to arm/disarm the factory alarm properly on the 2008+ subarus, any thoughts on that? Does it at least reduce the wires you need to tap?
Running a bypass for the door locks will arm/disarm the factory alarm, trunk status, trunk release, door status, door lock/unlock, e-brake status, tachometer output.

So in short, yes it will be less wires, although you can save money if you hardwire it all. On my 2011 I used one iDatalink flashed for the above and then another was required for the immobilizer bypass. That is the only way iDatalink was able to work the system. If you use another brand I cant help much as all I use is IDL. Maybe someone else can chime in.
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Old 11-29-2011, 10:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhawk77
I have heard mixed info that a canbus module is needed to arm/disarm the factory alarm properly on the 2008+ subarus, any thoughts on that? Does it at least reduce the wires you need to tap?
Typically a mdule reduces the number of in car wires that need to be tapped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker1313
I just installed the Viper with Smart Start the IPhone app. So far so good. Seem to work for me and not really sure what other options that i would really need. Its on my 2012 STI.
Window control module, tilt sensor, I can think of a few.... Did you put the white/blue wire in on a push switch to make it easier to do pit stop mode?
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:19 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by vision.dynamix View Post
You shouldnt need a relay to bypass the clutch on a Subaru.
Have you seen the heavy gauge wire on a 2008+ Impreza? I think there is a lot more current flowing through there than in previous generations. Also, maintaining the integrity of the circuit and not altering the resistance on it is not readily accomplished by leaving an output from the R/S to the lead.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:38 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay25RS

Have you seen the heavy gauge wire on a 2008+ Impreza? I think there is a lot more current flowing through there than in previous generations. Also, maintaining the integrity of the circuit and not altering the resistance on it is not readily accomplished by leaving an output from the R/S to the lead.
If done properly, a remote start should not add any resistance to a circuit.... Solder is your friend...

Also if the wire is that thick, chances are the starter circuit comes from the ignition switch and the clutch just connects it to the starter. In that case, hook the starter output to the starter side of the clutch switch.
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:29 AM   #25
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If done properly, a remote start should not add any resistance to a circuit.... Solder is your friend...

Also if the wire is that thick, chances are the starter circuit comes from the ignition switch and the clutch just connects it to the starter. In that case, hook the starter output to the starter side of the clutch switch.
I solder EVERYTHING but there is sometimes a rest resistance on an output of a remote start brain's wiring if it isn't a circuit that is fed from an internal relay.
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