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Old 06-22-2011, 01:58 PM   #26
dragoryte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phenryiv1 View Post
It is not power consumption that matters as much as the impedence that the HU "sees" when running (2) 4-ohm drivers from a single channel.

The stock tweeters are nominally 4 ohms. So are the Polks. The HU (most headunits, for that matter) is designed to drive a single 4 ohm speaker. With (2) 4 ohm drivers on a single channel, the HU "sees" a 2 ohm load and tries to double the power. Maybe it can take it, maybe not. It will generate more heat and may cause premature failure of the amplifier section of the stock HU.

If you are not in love with having more highs and having them located higher in the doors, I'd unhook the tweeters for the safety and longevity of the HU.
OK, I run a JVC 925BT instead of the stock head unit now but I'm guessing the same sentiment applies?
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:06 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by dragoryte View Post
OK, I run a JVC 925BT instead of the stock head unit now but I'm guessing the same sentiment applies?
Yes. A FEW headunits can run at 2 ohms safely, as evidenced by the fact that some infinity speakers are actually 2 ohms, but I would not want to run it that way for the long haul unless it was rated for it.

Some audio professionals may have a different opinion, but I have had HUs overheat from running all 4 channels at high volume for long periods of time. Add to that a 2 ohm load and you are asking to cook something.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:10 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phenryiv1 View Post
Yes. A FEW headunits can run at 2 ohms safely, as evidenced by the fact that some infinity speakers are actually 2 ohms, but I would not want to run it that way for the long haul unless it was rated for it.

Some audio professionals may have a different opinion, but I have had HUs overheat from running all 4 channels at high volume for long periods of time. Add to that a 2 ohm load and you are asking to cook something.
Sounds good, thanks for the advice. Going to disconnect the tweeter tonight!
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:51 PM   #29
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Bumping this as a reference.
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:32 AM   #30
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Your effective load on a 4-ohm tweeter and a 4-ohm woofer crossed over is still 4-ohms, they play different frequencies (tweeter band passed high, woofer low) and thus do not require power at the same time. There may be momentary 2 ohm loads, but not an overall load.
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:42 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by erik11876 View Post
Your effective load on a 4-ohm tweeter and a 4-ohm woofer crossed over is still 4-ohms, they play different frequencies (tweeter band passed high, woofer low) and thus do not require power at the same time. There may be momentary 2 ohm loads, but not an overall load.
But he is running a full-range coaxial at 4 ohms and then the factory tweeter, which may or may not have a passive crossover. If the OEM tweeter has the passive resistors in-line, then your logic is correct, but I looked at the tweeter and the factory coaxial when I removed them and I saw no evidence of any crossover on the tweeter.

I really don't know where the bass-limiting process occurs as it pertains to the OEM tweeters, but the OEM tweeter is marked as being 4-ohm, as is the OEM full-range coaxial.

At any rate, you MIGHT be safe to leave it in place, but I would not do it. Just my opinion.
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:28 PM   #32
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Hmmm....

I wonder if the OEM tweeter run discretely. My Mitsu Endeavor was like that, it had a Infinity system. Dunno though, I haven't taken the treble beater 4000 radio in 11 apart yet.
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Old 07-11-2011, 05:16 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phenryiv1 View Post
But he is running a full-range coaxial at 4 ohms and then the factory tweeter, which may or may not have a passive crossover. If the OEM tweeter has the passive resistors in-line, then your logic is correct, but I looked at the tweeter and the factory coaxial when I removed them and I saw no evidence of any crossover on the tweeter.

I really don't know where the bass-limiting process occurs as it pertains to the OEM tweeters, but the OEM tweeter is marked as being 4-ohm, as is the OEM full-range coaxial.

At any rate, you MIGHT be safe to leave it in place, but I would not do it. Just my opinion.
This ^. If you're running components off of a crossover than yes, both the 4 ohm tweeter and 4 ohm woofer are still only "asking" the HU for 4 ohms. That's because the crossover is actually accepting the 4 ohms of power and then sending the correct frequency to each component. However, the one guy sounds like he's running a coax speaker (which is it's own 4-ohm component) and then also running a factory tweeter (which is it's own 4-ohm component) and just splicing off of the same connection back to the headunit. This is basically just like "bridging" an amplifier and definitely brings the impedance down to 2-ohms. You definitely DO NOT want to run a HU this way if it's not made for 2-ohm loads.

To be honest, I've never seen a 2-ohm aftermarket HU but who knows. I know that my 2004 Mazdaspeed MX-5 that I used to have, which had the BOSE system in it, was running at 2-ohms. I was looking to upgrade the speakers while keeping the factory HU in place. There was one company that specialized in upgrading speakers for the factory system in MX-5's/Miatas. They made specific 2-Ohm components that would work with the factory BOSE.
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Old 07-11-2011, 05:50 PM   #34
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Duh I need to learn to read lol. You are correct, two tweeters in parallel will in deed drop it to 2 ohms. What's strange is that subie does this on the limited from the factory.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:40 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSMStannyl View Post
To be honest, I've never seen a 2-ohm aftermarket HU but who knows. I know that my 2004 Mazdaspeed MX-5 that I used to have, which had the BOSE system in it, was running at 2-ohms. I was looking to upgrade the speakers while keeping the factory HU in place. There was one company that specialized in upgrading speakers for the factory system in MX-5's/Miatas. They made specific 2-Ohm components that would work with the factory BOSE.
Even some aftermarket Infinity speakers in past years were 2-ohm nominal. I never wanted to risk ruunning them (plus I don't like the highs on many Infinity products), but the explaination on the Crutchfield website (and in the catalog) was that it was safe due to the safe operating ranges of most HUs.

I never believed the hype...
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:31 PM   #36
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Added more stock speaker info to post #1.

Also, if anyone wants to PM a mod to see if this can become a sticky, feel free. I sent one a while back but no luck so far.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:46 AM   #37
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Weekly bump to keep it visible.

Feel free to bug mods about getting this made a sticky. I have tried (obviously unsuccessfully).
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Old 08-13-2011, 04:26 PM   #38
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Periodic bump, since it has not been "Stuck" up top...
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:47 PM   #39
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how easy was it to run new speaker wires into the door? did you reuse the rubber wire loom?
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:34 PM   #40
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how easy was it to run new speaker wires into the door? did you reuse the rubber wire loom?
Right now, I am still on the stock wiring using the stoch molex and the Metra adapter. When I get my amp installed (soon, I hope) and get some 16/4 in-wall wire, I will be pulling it through the stock rubber cover- I hope.

I have done this successully on past cars (Subaru and otherwise), so I don't anticipate too huge of a problem. It is usually a pain, but not impossible.
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:35 PM   #41
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For my part, i use the stock wire, simpler and yet effective.
If i was going for the "stage 4" pionner sound system, then yes i will change them.

On my opinion, the improvement is not worth the trouble
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:37 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PARANOID56 View Post
how easy was it to run new speaker wires into the door? did you reuse the rubber wire loom?
I ran 8 gauge power and a couple other wires into my door to run my window modules, it was not bad at all. You need to pierce a hole in the boot inside the door cavity as that end is sealed. The interior side has a nice plastic guide you can feed the wires right through into the tube. I dismounted the tube end from both sides and slipped a big zip tie through, taped the wire on and pulled it through, there is good room in the stock boot.
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:28 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Power6 View Post
I ran 8 gauge power and a couple other wires into my door to run my window modules, it was not bad at all. You need to pierce a hole in the boot inside the door cavity as that end is sealed. The interior side has a nice plastic guide you can feed the wires right through into the tube. I dismounted the tube end from both sides and slipped a big zip tie through, taped the wire on and pulled it through, there is good room in the stock boot.
The big (HVAC-style) ziptie is the way to go. And it is definately best to do what you did and remove both ends of the loom from the door/jamb. The straighter the line the better.

I just feed the zip tie from the door end into the loom and pull it out the jamb side, then tape the wire to the tie (being certain to tape over the end to eliminate the possibility of it snagging as it is pulled through) and pull the tie back through into the door.

Mission accomplished.
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Old 08-19-2011, 04:48 PM   #44
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This is really a great post. I'm going to be using those pics and info when I start my install.
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Old 08-20-2011, 10:31 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phenryiv1 View Post
Even some aftermarket Infinity speakers in past years were 2-ohm nominal. I never wanted to risk ruunning them (plus I don't like the highs on many Infinity products), but the explaination on the Crutchfield website (and in the catalog) was that it was safe due to the safe operating ranges of most HUs.

I never believed the hype...
I owned the Infinity Kappa speakers that were rated at 2ohms. I thought they sounded really good but that was mostly due to the Alpine amp (pdx series) that I was using to drive them. That amp is fantastic. Infinity designed these speakers with an intention that you would be powering them with a dedicated amp, not the HU. No HU is capable of delivering adequate power to speakers like this to make them sound decent. Would it work? Sure, but the system will sound like poo and once you turn up the volume, you'll start clipping which will destroy the speakers. It's the underpowering that usually ruins the speakers. If you want to play it safe and you're insisting on running speakers off the HU, put a multimeter on the leads and measure just how much power you're running on the leads.
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:04 PM   #46
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Well, I'm copying your homework this weekend. Thanks.
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:49 PM   #47
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Well, I'm copying your homework this weekend. Thanks.
Good to hear. That is why I made the thread!
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Old 09-05-2011, 08:51 PM   #48
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My rear speakers went in without issue but I did the front passenger and am getting no sound, nor from the factory tweeter in the sail panel. Followed my own expertise and your instructions to the T, any ideas people?
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:45 PM   #49
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My rear speakers went in without issue but I did the front passenger and am getting no sound, nor from the factory tweeter in the sail panel. Followed my own expertise and your instructions to the T, any ideas people?
Did you install coaxials or components? Does the drivar's side still work like normal? Did you have OEM tweeters?
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Old 09-05-2011, 10:51 PM   #50
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I guess it'd be in coaxial 'mode,' it's convertible. Driver's side works like normal, but I haven't swapped them yet. Yes to OEM tweeters. Maybe a fuse popped, it started to rain so didn't get to check it out with a test light.
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