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Old 07-23-2002, 07:06 PM   #1
uber
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Default RS-T vs WRX

how are the 2.5 rs -t's comparing to the WRX both hp wise and money wise to put the turbo on
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Old 07-24-2002, 01:11 AM   #2
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Typically (unfortunately) a 12 second RS-T will cost much more than a 12 second WRX.

But, a 13.9 second RS-T will cost less than a stock WRX.
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Old 07-24-2002, 01:15 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImprezaRS dot com
Typically (unfortunately) a 12 second RS-T will cost much more than a 12 second WRX.

But, a 13.9 second RS-T will cost less than a stock WRX.
the reason for this is the cost to properly tune the rs-t to go beyound 5lbs of boost.
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Old 07-24-2002, 08:09 AM   #4
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Default Re: RS-T vs WRX

Quote:
Originally posted by uber
how are the 2.5 rs -t's comparing to the WRX both hp wise and money wise to put the turbo on
Based on the board, hp wise the 2.5RS-T's are getting their butts kicked.

$$$ wise is a big toss up. It can go either way.
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Old 07-24-2002, 07:12 PM   #5
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With the high compression pistons and weak gears, it is hard to build a 12 second RS-T without cracking a piston or breaking the tranny (pick one). I would have no qualms about building a 5 psi RS-T and running right up there with a WRX using a boost cvontroller.

12 seconds can be done, but 1st it's $6-7K just for the turbo kit and programable ECU and injectors (depending on which you use), then you climb to $10-12K with stronger gears (depending on which you use), and add another $2,000 for clutch flywheel and exhaust installed.

So, $12 - $14K give you a 12 second 10-12 psi RS-T, but you haven't changed the pistons yet, and pray they or the rods, don't fail. Add another $3,000 to build the motor and you are at $15 - $17K on a $20K car = $35 - 37K total. Now you are in the 11's...

But a $25K WRX with $3,000 in Cobb or Vishnu or TurboXS mods (insert vendor name here) will run high 12's easy.
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Old 07-24-2002, 07:48 PM   #6
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For someone aiming at good off-boost driveability however, "there's no replacement for displacement". The 2.5 is still decent to drive while the turbo's still spooling-up.

So it all depends what you want to use it for. For drags go w/ a WRX. For a more balanced drive without HUGE HP go w/ an RS-T.

-Milan
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Old 07-24-2002, 11:27 PM   #7
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Absolutely,

That's why I drive an RS-T still, and Imprezer dropped his RS-T for a WRX
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Old 07-24-2002, 11:53 PM   #8
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by US2JDM
For someone aiming at good off-boost driveability however, "there's no replacement for displacement". The 2.5 is still decent to drive while the turbo's still spooling-up.

The only replacement for displacement is technology.


I actually saw that on a turbo Prelude with a huge front mount and tons of work. The car was very very nice. I thought the saying was pretty cool.

BTW: I have nothing to add to this post, just thought I would troll.

haha

Pete
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Old 07-25-2002, 11:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by IMPREZIV
The only replacement for displacement is technology.
No, and I'm sick of people saying that. In terms of sheer power potential, there is NO replacement for displacement. You add the same tech from a 2.0L engine to a 2.5L engine, and the 2.5L will have more power.

The EJ25 isn't built for boost, so that has to be done to make high HP numbers. A built EJ25 will roast a built EJ20. Need I remind people that most of the fastest WRXs are bored and stroked to anywhere from 2.2 to 2.5l?
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Old 07-25-2002, 12:03 PM   #10
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Default Agreed....almost

Quote:
Originally posted by Jewbaru


No, and I'm sick of people saying that. In terms of sheer power potential, there is NO replacement for displacement. You add the same tech from a 2.0L engine to a 2.5L engine, and the 2.5L will have more power.
It all depends on how you look at it. The phrase, 'There is no replacement for displacement' is interpretted differently from different people.

In one instance: Two engines virtually identical except that one engine has a larger displacement than the other. Everything else being equal, the car with the larger displacement IS going to make more power/torque. Period!

On the other hand: If you have an engine with a certain displacement and someone says, we have different routes to making extra horsepower. What shall we do? One guy says, "There is no replacement for displacement" and decides that the best route for more power is increasing the displacement. The other guy says, "I think we should turbocharge it (supercharge, add nitrous, pick one) for our racing duties". They are only allowed to pick one or the other and that one guy says, "There's no replacement for displacement". In this scenario, there is a very good argument on the side of the forced induction user. He could very well state that technology, higher rpms, nitrous, supercharger, turbocharger, ?-charger, etc, etc, will add more hp/torque than increasing the displacement by itself. He/she could say that this other option is a 'replacement for displacement'. Of course you could do both but you see where I'm coming from.

That's all for now!
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Old 07-25-2002, 06:11 PM   #11
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Kevin, you missed a key line:

In terms of sheer power potential, there is NO replacement for displacement. Period.

All things equal, the car with the most displacement will always produce more power, so in terms of power potential, there is absolutly no replacement for displacement. I know that the 5.0L will fall to a properly tuned turbocharged 2.5L, but if the 5.0L also has a properly tuned turbocharger, the 2.5L will get left in the dust.
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Old 07-25-2002, 07:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jewbaru
Kevin, you missed a key line:

In terms of sheer power potential, there is NO replacement for displacement. Period.

All things equal, the car with the most displacement will always produce more power, so in terms of power potential, there is absolutly no replacement for displacement. I know that the 5.0L will fall to a properly tuned turbocharged 2.5L, but if the 5.0L also has a properly tuned turbocharger, the 2.5L will get left in the dust.
You are right on the money, sir. The more volumetric area you have = the more fuel and air you can cram in before that all important spark hits.

You can put as big of a turbo as you want on a 2.0L, but in the end you can only get in however much air and fuel will combust in that area.

But you will be taken in off-boost situations by a larger displacement motor while you're waiting for that boost to hit.

That's all I meant.

Word.

-Milan

I love all the Scoobs (yes, even the "Suzuki Justy" )
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Old 07-28-2002, 03:13 AM   #13
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I'm curious about what the components of the ej's are made of.
Like crank, pistons, rods. are they forged on the wrx & not on the rs? And it is too bad that rs trannies are junk for the most part.
And in my opinion the "no replacement" slogan is a bunch of bull. The key is technology. displacement is'nt going to do diddly with a low compression ratio, or with lowsy heads, or if your final drive gear ratio is lowsy. The great advantage of displacement is torque.
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Old 07-28-2002, 04:04 AM   #14
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there is no replacement for displacement. ive been in a high 12sec wrx and a mid/low 13 sec RS-T. there is absoutely no comparison as to which car i would choose. the RS-T. the torque is just so much more powerful and much more enjoyable than the EJ20.
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Old 07-28-2002, 04:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by brucelee


PS: The WRX guys still have to deal with the ugly-ness of the WRX!

Amen Rev. Preach on.

-MAX
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Old 07-28-2002, 04:49 PM   #16
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You guys still crack me up. I've driven some fast WRX's, and my car. For those who don't know, as I don't post much anymore, I have a MY99 2.5RS TEC'd, turboed, and modded to the teeth. Both are enjoyable. But, it truely comes down to taste. Those who are without will buy a WRX. Those with a good set of brains atop their head will look very hard at that underpriced GC8 2.5RS sitting quietly.

I wouldn't give my car up for the world, but I wouldn't mind a 400hp WRX wagon sitting next to it

Cheers,

MattC
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Old 07-28-2002, 06:44 PM   #17
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So can you guys put a modest price tag on getting an rs into 300 horses? Please don't add "labor" or "installation". Just parts please. And maybe give a brief description of a parts list.
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Old 07-28-2002, 09:15 PM   #18
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Just an aside, but an observation about the RS-T. The nice thing about it is that it's American only. IIRC, the 2.5 on the imprezas is an American market thing. So only we get the lovely low end of the 2.5 and the juicy top end of the turbo. JDM gets AVCS, but us Americans make up for it with displacement. Its the American way .

-IggDawg
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Old 07-28-2002, 09:44 PM   #19
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actually the fastest wrx right now is a 2.0 liter, the 2nd is a 2.2, at least according to that 1/4mile registry.
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Old 07-28-2002, 09:49 PM   #20
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Default You asked for it!

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Sanderson
So can you guys put a modest price tag on getting an rs into 300 horses? Please don't add "labor" or "installation". Just parts please. And maybe give a brief description of a parts list.
Ludespeed stage I:
$2395

Zex nitrous kit:
$595.00

Zex Bottle Heater:
$135.94


Total: $3125.94

Yes, yes, I know what you meant but I tried to keep the price as modest as possible. At least this is a free bump so you can get a 'real' answer. I'm just in a good mood and felt like talking.
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Old 07-28-2002, 11:36 PM   #21
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thanks for the reply. I should have stated "without nitrous" in my question. I know what it is, I know how it works, I also know that it is the least expensive path to power, but it is very explosive and I don't want to take the risk.
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Old 07-29-2002, 01:12 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by smskier
actually the fastest wrx right now is a 2.0 liter, the 2nd is a 2.2, at least according to that 1/4mile registry.

maybe im wrong but isnt the fastest impreza a stroked 2.0? thats not exactly fair to call it a 2.0 if its actually 2.4
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Old 07-29-2002, 11:39 PM   #23
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SDR turbo kit www.SubaruPlanet.com/turbosale.htm $3,599
AW IC upgrade $700
3" Catback $659
Add S&H and labor

Dyno's 270 at the crank with 6 psi...
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