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Old 06-13-2011, 05:09 PM   #1
Vaughn Performance
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Default Let me help you build a suspension system that suits your needs.

There's a nearly infinite amount of products for these cars, which sometimes makes trying to answer the question "whats the right set up for me" a difficult and often overwhelming question to answer. Well that's what I'm here for.

In this thread you'll be able to get answers to your questions along with pricing and product recommendations for a set up that suits what it is you plan on doing with your car. I'm capable of getting just about anything, though there are certain brands that I've found tend to yield the best results, and generally try to stick to using those. Think of this as sort of like my suspension questions thread, but also a place to get pricing and specific product info.

Just let me know a little about what you've done, and would like to do with the car. What your handling handling goals are, and what it is you would like to achieve with your cars handling. From there, we can sort out what parts will suit your needs, as well as your budget.

-Anthony
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Old 06-13-2011, 05:10 PM   #2
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Some of the brands that I carry and have had good results with are:








So if you have questions about these, or any for that matter feel free to ask.
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Old 06-13-2011, 05:14 PM   #3
MSMStannyl
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Ok, here's a question that I can't seem to get a great answer on even after lots of searching. Sway bars. I have a 2011 WRX (Sedan) and currently have the EPIC springs on the stock struts. The next obvious suspension upgrade is sway bars. I know they come in different sizes and some are adjustable (btw, how easy is it to actually adjust these?). Anyway, this is simply my daily driver and I do enjoy some spirited driving. What size sway bars would you recommend? I never plan to track the car and frankly, I don't see myself wanting to get under it to adjust them. I'm looking for a tighter feel while still being semi-comfortable on regular roads.

Thanks for your suggestions!
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Old 06-13-2011, 06:20 PM   #4
Vaughn Performance
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Originally Posted by MSMStannyl View Post
Ok, here's a question that I can't seem to get a great answer on even after lots of searching. Sway bars. I have a 2011 WRX (Sedan) and currently have the EPIC springs on the stock struts. The next obvious suspension upgrade is sway bars. I know they come in different sizes and some are adjustable (btw, how easy is it to actually adjust these?). Anyway, this is simply my daily driver and I do enjoy some spirited driving. What size sway bars would you recommend? I never plan to track the car and frankly, I don't see myself wanting to get under it to adjust them. I'm looking for a tighter feel while still being semi-comfortable on regular roads.

Thanks for your suggestions!
I'm not sure what spring rate the Epics are, and that's part of what helps determine what bar sizing will be a good match. I have an idea what the Epics are like though. Swaybars and endlinks are a good upgrade, but a damper upgrade wouldn't be a bad idea either. Upgraded dampers will better help control the increased rates of your springs, as well as improve several other aspects of handling. Your options for fixed perch strut/shocks would be either GtWorx/Bilstein units or Koni inserts.

Moving on to sway bars though, I would say 24f/22r Whitleine adjustable bars with kartboy solid endlinks are a good combo. Those sizes would work well for what you have in mind. Being adjustable just gives you the the added bonus of dialing the bars in to a setting that suits your driving style. Once you've done that there wouldn't really be a need to keep adjusting other then having changed other parts. Adjustment only involves moving the endlink to the corresponding setting (hole) on the bar.

The Whiteline bars with Kartboy solid endlinks would be $664 out the door. Shipping is free. I can also get either of the above mentioned damper upgrades for you as well should you decide to do so. Like I said, I think it would be a good idea, and greatly help increase performance.

-Anthony
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Old 06-13-2011, 06:30 PM   #5
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Sway bars for auto-x? I've heard so many opinions on what is the best combination. Some say do the rear sway bushing and end links, and just do endlinks on the front and leave the front sway. Others say bigger in the front, smaller in the rear, some say the opposite small in front, big in rear. And still others say keep front and rear the same size.
What is the correct answer? Is there even a correct answer, or the does right setup depend most on your own driving style?

For me, I want to eliminate the cars tendency to push, and to get the rear end to rotate around better.
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Old 06-13-2011, 06:49 PM   #6
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Sway bars for auto-x? I've heard so many opinions on what is the best combination. Some say do the rear sway bushing and end links, and just do endlinks on the front and leave the front sway. Others say bigger in the front, smaller in the rear, some say the opposite small in front, big in rear. And still others say keep front and rear the same size.
What is the correct answer? Is there even a correct answer, or the does right setup depend most on your own driving style?

For me, I want to eliminate the cars tendency to push, and to get the rear end to rotate around better.
There's really a lot of different answers to this question, and different camps have different philosophies about "whats right". What I'll say though is personally I believe in running a uprated size bar in front as well as rear even for Auto-X Reason being, is you want to try and control the amount of compression your getting up front in order to help try and keep the wheel in camber curve that is beneficial to front grip. Running a larger rear bar on it's own will help with rotation, and direction changes, but the front will still be lacking traction. Now I understand the importance in AutoX to have a car that can quickly change direction within a small distance, and have plenty of rear rotation. Which is fine, you can still achieve that running and even greater diameter rear bar then front, rear alignment, or rear spring rates and damper settings. There's plenty of ways to increase or bias the car toward rear rotation, but more mechanical front grip is still beneficial.

Now which bar sizes you pick will also depend on, what type of tires your running, what your spring rates are. What other things have you done to the car? And the true "fastest" set up is the one that gives the driver the confidence to dig deeper and push harder. And that will vary between drivers.

-Anthony
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Old 06-13-2011, 06:55 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Vaughn Performance View Post
There's really a lot of different answers to this question, and different camps have different philosophies about "whats right". What I'll say though is personally I believe in running a uprated size bar in front as well as rear even for Auto-X Reason being, is you want to try and control the amount of compression your getting up front in order to help try and keep the wheel in camber curve that is beneficial to front grip. Running a larger rear bar on it's own will help with rotation, and direction changes, but the front will still be lacking traction. Now I understand the importance in AutoX to have a car that can quickly change direction within a small distance, and have plenty of rear rotation. Which is fine, you can still achieve that running and even greater diameter rear bar then front, rear alignment, or rear spring rates and damper settings. There's plenty of ways to increase or bias the car toward rear rotation, but more mechanical front grip is still beneficial.

Now which bar sizes you pick will also depend on, what type of tires your running, what your spring rates are. What other things have you done to the car?

-Anthony
KYB AGX with RCS Yellows (V2)
Dunlop Star Specs 235/45/17 usually run just under 50psi at the auto-x
stock spec alignment

So are you saying it's always going to be a trade off between a car that turns in well and a car that rotates around well?
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:30 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by OUScooby View Post
KYB AGX with RCS Yellows (V2)
Dunlop Star Specs 235/45/17 usually run just under 50psi at the auto-x
stock spec alignment

So are you saying it's always going to be a trade off between a car that turns in well and a car that rotates around well?
Well right off, a big wrench in the works of what you already have is going to be stock alignment specs. Stock specs are pretty crap as far as what you can achieve performance wise. So right off an alignment would help. There's not tons of adjustment with stock stuff, but up front you can max out your stock eccentric bolts to get some additional negative camber. That will help with everything. Out back, you could try a set of aftermarket camber bolts (Ingalls $40 bucks) as you may actually want to dial out some rear camber to help with rotation (no camber adjustment out back stock). Those are a couple inexpensive things that can be done right off. A roll center adjuster wouldn't hurt either ($206 bucks) to help correct the roll center height for where your at with those springs. Some may disagree, but those AGX are also going to be a weak link in your set up down the road. If your going to stay fixed perch, A Tokico D-spec, or Koni insert would be better suited to what your doing. Beyond that, will depend heavily on class and budget.

For swaybars I would say Whiteline 24mm or 27mm adjustable front bars, and 24mm adjustable rear bar with Kartboy solid endlinks. Total would be $650 with 27mm bar or $600 with the 24mm front.

To answer the second part of your question, it's not really a tradeoff. Many of the things that help a car to turn in well will also help it change direction well. I would say, the compromise a AutoX specific car set up is going to make would be more in the department of steady state cornering, or in long corners. For example, a AutoX specific set up car could be a real handful on a road course.

-Anthony
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaughn Performance View Post
Well right off, a big wrench in the works of what you already have is going to be stock alignment specs. Stock specs are pretty crap as far as what you can achieve performance wise. So right off an alignment would help. There's not tons of adjustment with stock stuff, but up front you can max out your stock eccentric bolts to get some additional negative camber. That will help with everything. Out back, you could try a set of aftermarket camber bolts (Ingalls $40 bucks) as you may actually want to dial out some rear camber to help with rotation (no camber adjustment out back stock). Those are a couple inexpensive things that can be done right off. A roll center adjuster wouldn't hurt either ($206 bucks) to help correct the roll center height for where your at with those springs. Some may disagree, but those AGX are also going to be a weak link in your set up down the road. If your going to stay fixed perch, A Tokico D-spec, or Koni insert would be better suited to what your doing. Beyond that, will depend heavily on class and budget.

For swaybars I would say Whiteline 24mm or 27mm adjustable front bars, and 24mm adjustable rear bar with Kartboy solid endlinks. Total would be $650 with 27mm bar or $600 with the 24mm front.

To answer the second part of your question, it's not really a tradeoff. Many of the things that help a car to turn in well will also help it change direction well. I would say, the compromise a AutoX specific car set up is going to make would be more in the department of steady state cornering, or in long corners. For example, a AutoX specific set up car could be a real handful on a road course.

-Anthony
I know an alignment will help. The only reason I haven't done this yet is because I've been waiting to do sway bar upgrade first.
I've thought about camber bolts, but I've heard lots of stories about them breaking and leaving you with a big head ache to fix.
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:28 PM   #10
MSMStannyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaughn Performance View Post
I'm not sure what spring rate the Epics are, and that's part of what helps determine what bar sizing will be a good match. I have an idea what the Epics are like though. Swaybars and endlinks are a good upgrade, but a damper upgrade wouldn't be a bad idea either. Upgraded dampers will better help control the increased rates of your springs, as well as improve several other aspects of handling. Your options for fixed perch strut/shocks would be either GtWorx/Bilstein units or Koni inserts.

Moving on to sway bars though, I would say 24f/22r Whitleine adjustable bars with kartboy solid endlinks are a good combo. Those sizes would work well for what you have in mind. Being adjustable just gives you the the added bonus of dialing the bars in to a setting that suits your driving style. Once you've done that there wouldn't really be a need to keep adjusting other then having changed other parts. Adjustment only involves moving the endlink to the corresponding setting (hole) on the bar.

The Whiteline bars with Kartboy solid endlinks would be $664 out the door. Shipping is free. I can also get either of the above mentioned damper upgrades for you as well should you decide to do so. Like I said, I think it would be a good idea, and greatly help increase performance.

-Anthony
Just to kind of answer your question about the EPIC springs....well, there really is no answer. They are progressive rate springs. EPIC does not reveal the spring rate info on them since it's not a constant I guess. Either that or it's proprietary information that they don't want to share. Either way, I have to say, I'm pretty happy with them. Again, this is my DD so I didn't want anything too stiff. Honestly, I wanted a pretty much stock ride but with a little less tire/wheel gap (I DO NOT mean slammed though!). Anyway, I've heard from many that the sway bar upgrade would be a major, postive change so that's definitely my next step. I honestly will probably wait on dampers until my stock struts go out.

I do appreciate your feedback. Thanks for that. One question though. I noticed that your sway bar size suggestion was a larger front and smaller rear. Is that normal? I feel like I always read about people putting larger sways on the rear but maybe I'm just not remembering right. Does one setup give you more of a tail happy setup than the other?

EDIT: I just read your other posting for the other guy about Auto-X and swaybars. I guess this is my question too about larger/smaller bars being front or rear. So just to be clear, since the car is not going to be tracked and I just want a fun driving experience, what setup would give the car more rear rotation instead of the front pushing out?

Thanks again!

Last edited by MSMStannyl; 06-14-2011 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:28 PM   #11
Vaughn Performance
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Originally Posted by OUScooby View Post
I know an alignment will help. The only reason I haven't done this yet is because I've been waiting to do sway bar upgrade first.
I've thought about camber bolts, but I've heard lots of stories about them breaking and leaving you with a big head ache to fix.
It's true camber bolts if installed improperly or misused can create problems. There was a slew of issue awhile back where guys we're trying to run them in the upper clevis hole on their struts, which would lead to shearing them. Any bolt in that upper hole other then the factory eccentric bolt though would create that same problem as that hole is oblong to creat a camber adjustment when using the oem eccentric bolt. Used correctly, camber bolts are fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSMStannyl View Post
Just to kind of answer your question about the EPIC springs....well, there really is no answer. They are progressive rate springs. EPIC does not reveal the spring rate info on them since it's not a constant I guess. Either that or it's proprietary information that they don't want to share. Either way, I have to say, I'm pretty happy with them. Again, this is my DD so I didn't want anything too stiff. Honestly, I wanted a pretty much stock ride but with a little less tire/wheel gap (I DO NOT mean slammed though!). Anyway, I've heard from many that the sway bar upgrade would be a major, postive change so that's definitely my next step. I honestly will probably wait on dampers until my stock struts go out.

I do appreciate your feedback. Thanks for that. One question though. I noticed that your sway bar size suggestion was a larger front and smaller rear. Is that normal? I feel like I always read about people putting larger sways on the rear but maybe I'm just not remembering right. Does one setup give you more of a tail happy setup than the other?

EDIT: I just read your other posting for the other guy about Auto-X and swaybars. I guess this is my question too about larger/smaller bars being front or rear. So just to be clear, since the car is not going to be tracked and I just want a fun driving experience, what setup would give the car more rear rotation instead of the front pushing out?

Thanks again!
No problemo, always happy to help. Even progressive springs have a rate. A soft one, then a higher when when the switch over. Lots of manufactures for whatever reason are secretive with this info. Anyway, the swaybars will definitely show a noticeable improvement in the cars handling overall. For the GR chassis, with equal front/rear rates (which I suspect they probably are) those are good size bars for what your looking to do. Everybody has their own feel for what the "right" amount of rear rotation is, and with the 22mm rear adjustable bar, you can adjust in and out the rotation that your looking for. There are larger rear bars for the GR, but for someone running performance street tires I think this is a good size.

Let me know when your ready to do your bar upgrades and I can get a order together for you. If you have any other questions about this or anything else just let me know.

-Anthony
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:31 PM   #12
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:33 PM   #13
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:57 PM   #14
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Default Spring upgrade

I just acquired a 2011 WRX wagon. I used to own an 03 wagon a few years back, and am happy to be back. I remember upgrading the springs on that first because the fender gap was atrocious. It doesn't seem noticeable on the 2011, yet it seems we are still upgrading these. What spring do you recommend? I used Whiteline before, but it seems there are some others out there more commonly used now.

I plan on going to a 24f 22r sway bar setup after the springs are done in the future.

Thanks for the input!
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:34 PM   #15
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I just acquired a 2011 WRX wagon. I used to own an 03 wagon a few years back, and am happy to be back. I remember upgrading the springs on that first because the fender gap was atrocious. It doesn't seem noticeable on the 2011, yet it seems we are still upgrading these. What spring do you recommend? I used Whiteline before, but it seems there are some others out there more commonly used now.

I plan on going to a 24f 22r sway bar setup after the springs are done in the future.

Thanks for the input!
If it's mainly for cosmetic reason I would say go with a Swift sport spring. They don't lower the car to the point where your creating big geometry problems, and the spring rates are fairly mild. If your looking for a real handling improvement though, a damper upgrade is going to be in order as well. A really nice option for DD is the GtWorx/Bilstein set up. You can run a significantly increased spring rate matched with their uprated damper, which results in a really nice increase in handling capability while still maintaining excellent ride quality. The 24/22mm bar upgrade is also good sizing, and will help quite a bit with handling as well. Combined you'd have a pretty nicely rounded set. I can get any of these above options for you, if you're interested just let me know.

-Anthony
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:53 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Vaughn Performance View Post
If it's mainly for cosmetic reason I would say go with a Swift sport spring. They don't lower the car to the point where your creating big geometry problems, and the spring rates are fairly mild. If your looking for a real handling improvement though, a damper upgrade is going to be in order as well. A really nice option for DD is the GtWorx/Bilstein set up. You can run a significantly increased spring rate matched with their uprated damper, which results in a really nice increase in handling capability while still maintaining excellent ride quality. The 24/22mm bar upgrade is also good sizing, and will help quite a bit with handling as well. Combined you'd have a pretty nicely rounded set. I can get any of these above options for you, if you're interested just let me know.
Much appreciated for the follow up and advice. Ill certainly look into the damper upgrade and com back to you in the future. Thanks Anthony
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:29 PM   #17
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Much appreciated for the follow up and advice. Ill certainly look into the damper upgrade and com back to you in the future. Thanks Anthony
No problemo! Always happy to answer questions if you have anymore about anything.

-Anthony
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:19 PM   #18
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:53 PM   #19
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Do you have anything for light stage rally? I'm currently running tokico D specs with wrx springs for rally X, but I'm think about converting my car for stage use.
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Old 07-29-2011, 03:53 PM   #20
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Do you have anything for light stage rally? I'm currently running tokico D specs with wrx springs for rally X, but I'm think about converting my car for stage use.
I can get you the custom Bilsteins from All wheels driven, for around $2700. Their custom valved units, with group N tops. Prices go north pretty quickly from there. RS&SP released a non adjsutable set up as well not long ago that if I remember was in the low $3k range. While they don't promote it very heavily here in the states, AST also has some options for rally. I would have to speak with them and see what they have to offer and what pricing is like, as I haven't looked into any of their rally oriented stuff yet. Actually just looked now. The 5100 rally stuff is about $4k I can see about maybe a lower end coilover from their line up, valved more appropriately for rally.

I can also probably get you a set of hotbits coilovers. I honestly haven't tried their product though, and I hear mixed things through the grapevine. Some folks seem to have good results with them though. The trouble with rally stuff is it jumps up pretty quickly in price if your looking at good manufactures who will actually beef up their product to sustain the punishment of stage rally.

Not sure if any of these options interest you. If these are out of the spectrum I might have a few more ideas. I'm actually aspiring to get into stage rally myself as well. I'm a ways off though, and saving for something cheap and 2wd to try and campaign eventually.

-Anthony
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:20 PM   #21
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Regarding the above rally question, what do you think about FEAL suspension? Don't they have a few options in the way of coil inserts and re valved shocks? I've not used anything of theirs personally but I've hear they are a good affordable option.
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:09 PM   #22
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Regarding the above rally question, what do you think about FEAL suspension? Don't they have a few options in the way of coil inserts and re valved shocks? I've not used anything of theirs personally but I've hear they are a good affordable option.
Yup, Odi actually can revalve oem STi struts for gravel. And the stock STi inverted dampers are not a bad option when their working right. Which Odi's Zirk fitting should resolve any lubrication problems normally associated with the factory units. Again, not a bad set up for Rallyx days, or for someone starting out in stage rally looking to get their feet wet.

-Anthony
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:04 PM   #23
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Old 08-04-2011, 06:37 PM   #24
SubieScott77
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I'm kinda intrigued about this stuff, as well. Sometimes it feels as if the WRX suspension is a roller coaster! Other times, I get jolted. Regardless, I want to make it a more firm ride and add a little performance into it as well. Any ideas? Would springs, swaybards, endlinks, etc do the trick? Or should I spring for (no pun intended) and get coilovers as well?
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:01 PM   #25
Vaughn Performance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubieScott77 View Post
I'm kinda intrigued about this stuff, as well. Sometimes it feels as if the WRX suspension is a roller coaster! Other times, I get jolted. Regardless, I want to make it a more firm ride and add a little performance into it as well. Any ideas? Would springs, swaybards, endlinks, etc do the trick? Or should I spring for (no pun intended) and get coilovers as well?
Yeah stock WRX suspension isn't terrible, but it's nothing amazing either. Huge improvements can be found by upgrading dampers and springs. Springs although there are many out there on the aftermarket for the WRX for the most part have spring rates too high for what the factory damper (shock) can control, which result in bad ride quality as well as poor handling, and premature deterioration of the factory dampers. There are a few which don't have spring rate increases so high that they are unsafe for the damper, but they also do little to improve handling.

The best way to go is to upgrade you struts as well as springs. I recommend RCE springs with either their Bilstein/Gtworx damper or Koni inserts/shocks. I think the GtWorx/Bilstein cup kit though, (matched damper/spring) is the way to go. Those will run $1350. They will ride beautifully, as well as drastically improve handling over the stock units.

Coilovers, can be comfortable as well. But I generally recommend coilovers to folks who are doing frequent track days or spirited driving. If that sounds like you, I could set you up with AST 4100 dampers with Hyperco springs and Swift helpers which would run you $2500 out the door. They are high pressure monotube single adjustable dampers, valved digressively, which is nice for sucking up the larger road imperfections. The high pressure Nitrogen keeps them from bubbling and the piston cavitating at the track, and under hard conditions.

Swayabrs and upgraded endlinks will also make huge gains in handling. Swaybars help keep the suspension from compressing too far beyond their sweet spot in the camber curver and in turn result in more mechanical traction. They also help with reducing understeer during directional changes and rotation. All things that improve handling leaps and bounds. There are also a slew of bushing that help with reducing deflection and alignment changes, resulting in more stable direct handling. Steering rack, control arm, and rear suspension bushings are a great relatively inexpensive way to create noticeable gains. I can get you set up with some bushings as well that will make huge improvements.

-Anthony
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