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Old 03-01-2001, 06:21 PM   #1
Prog
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Post WRC cars... question...

Hi all..

Since a lot of cars used in races are sold, for example like cars that have been on motorola cup etc... my question is

does SWRT sell their imprezas (specifically the old 22b body style used up to the 2000 season) now that they switched to the new body style? Im guessing that even if they did sell them they would be VERY expensive...
(as opposed to say, roadrace cars that you can buy for a better price than to build it yourself sometimes)
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Old 03-01-2001, 06:25 PM   #2
Frank
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Well i'm guessing they'd be quite expensive unless they strip them down, which i guess they would. They wouldn't want people stealing those secrets now would they?!
Supposedly those cars cost around $400,000.00 dollars each so i can't imagine them being less than $90k.
Just speculation though.
~Frank
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Old 03-01-2001, 07:59 PM   #3
Tangmere
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There's an ex-Burns New Zealand Impreza for sale in the back of Autosport for $70,000. Cheap at half the price.
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Old 03-01-2001, 08:25 PM   #4
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From everything I've heard, Prodrive sells the $500,000 cars for $340,000 if they make it through two whole rallies. They sell to lesser teams.

Ross N.
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Old 03-01-2001, 11:09 PM   #5
Jon Bogert
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Never mind the buy-in. Even if you can afford $100k+ up front, try pricing out a gearbox and engine rebuild every couple of events. And try finding a forged unobtanium upright when you whack a corner on something. And you better hire an programmer to keep the electronic differential software running smoothly.

Basically, you're going to be spending ANOTHER $100k+++ just keeping the damn thing running for a season's worth of events.
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Old 03-01-2001, 11:27 PM   #6
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Prodrive will provide you one for 310,000 british pounds. That, I believe, includes the services of a couple of mechanics for the season.

There was a detailed article on it in Autosport about 6 months ago.

Richard
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Old 03-02-2001, 03:04 AM   #7
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Wow! That just goes to show that a sport doesnt even NEED popularity in america to be very successful...i mean...i never thought SWRT had those kind of budgets (considerin they have how many 300,000pound+ cars each season, plus all the costs of keeping them running etc) of course im new to the sport, so i have yet to experience the real magnitude of rally , because its such an obscure sport in these parts....

nevertheless its always very cool when you realize that WRC is that big in other parts of the world...at least for me..
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Old 03-02-2001, 11:42 AM   #8
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Hey Prog
The new bodystyle is not homologated for the gorup A or N yet. Only WRC has a new bodystyle so far and that ain`t cheap. Ex. WRC gearbox will cost you around $80,000
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Old 03-02-2001, 11:46 AM   #9
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Can you explain about the group N or A or whatever? im really new to rally and aside of WRC cars i know nothing...hell even WRC cars i only know the top drivers, lets seE:

mcrae/grist
burns/reid
panizzi
delecour
aureol(sp?)
petter solberg
juha kankkunen
tommi makkinnen
freddy loix
marcus gronholm
carlos sainz

and thats about it...
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Old 03-02-2001, 01:04 PM   #10
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I'm sure there is someone who can give you a more definitive answer, but basically from what I can tell:
Group N must basically be a production based car, and they cant make a whole load of super bad-a** one off parts for it. I also believe that they have to retain stock wheelbase/track/turbo size/electronics/ and no sequential boxes or anything else super high zoot like that.
Am I right?
Group A: which I don't even think they are going to use anymore is kinda like a GroupN, but they can make all those changes to.

But isn't there a new classification they are calling WRC now? Where they can have the cars based on a production vehicle, but can up the track/wheelbase to a maximum size, and can basically do anything as long as the resrictor is the right diameter, and the displacement is 2.0 litres?
Maybe I am confused also.

Mike
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Old 03-02-2001, 01:30 PM   #11
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First an explanation. The FIA ( Federation Internationale de l'Automobile www.FIA.com ) is the international body that controls Motorsports worldwide. Within each country National sporting authorites are affiliated as the approved controlling body for that country, Within the USA this is the SCCA.

Full details of the classes and technical rules are available at www.FIA.com

Unfortunately I can't get to that site at the moment. However, if you do visit scroll down almost to the bottom of the page and you will find links to all the FIA championship classifications , Technical rules and lists of homologated vehicles. One interesting fact is that the current SWRT WRC cars are actually technically illegal under the FIA sporting rules... Chapter 17 para 208 of the Sporting regulations will explain

Now to the definition the rules for FIA approved rally cars

1. To comply with Group A or Group N a car must be listed as homolgated by the FIA. This homologation approval lasts for a specified period, typically for 10 years if I remember correctly

2. To be eligible for classes in Groups A and N, cars must be currently in the General List of FIA homologated cars in Groups A or N,or added to it during the period of the Championship.

In addition to complying with National and FIA Technical and Safety Regulations, cars in Group A or Group N may only be modified in the manner described in the 2001 FIA Yearbook. Allowed modifications published in the monthly official FIA Motor Sports Bulletin may be incorporated at the date given.

Valid homologation papers, perforated by FIA or National Body, must be carried within the car and be available for inspection by Scrutineers or other officials of the event or Championship.

3. Group A and N and Open classes are as follows

Over 1400 cc, up to and including 1600 cc N2 A6 B10

Over l600 cc, up to and including 2000 cc N3 A7 B11

Over 2000 cc, 2 wheel drive cars N4 B12

Over 2000 cc, 4 wheel drive cars N4 B13

As an aside, WRC cars run in a separate class ( A8 )

The engine capacities stated are after multiplying the actual capacity by the forced induction equivalency factor of 1.7. This does NOT apply to Diesel engines.


The SCCA ProRally Classes are as follows:


FIA Group A
Highly modified and fiercely competitive cars, the Group A category was added to the ProRally Championship in 2000. These cars must follow the global rules format specified by the FIA.

FIA Group N
Very similar in basic concept to the SCCA Production and Production GT classes, these very competitive cars must follow the globally recognized rules format specified by the FIA. There are four classes within Group N, which allow this category's formula to accommodate a wide variety of vehicles.

Open Class
This very broad class that allows for a tremendous amount of technical innovation. As with all SCCA specification performance rally classes, the cars must retain their production based appearance, but under-the-hood, virtually anything goes, and all-wheel-drive is absolutely essential.

Group 5
A two-wheel drive version of the Open class described above, following most of that classes rules. A uniquely American formula, engine displacement is limited to 5.1 litres, with supercharging and turbocharging allowed.

Group 2
A small displacement, two-wheel drive class that also follows the 'anything goes' format of the Open and Group 5 classes, but provides excellent competition opportunities for cost-sensitive competitors and manufacturers. Supercharging or turbocharging is not allowed, and adjusted engine displacement is limited to 2.4 litres.

Production
Performance Rally's version of 'Showroom Stock', this class features primarily 2WD cars that are virtually unaltered, except for the safety requirements, with respect to manufacturer's production specifications. Adjusted engine displacement is limited to 2.65 litres.

Production GT
Following the showroom stock foundation of the Production Class, GT cars are more powerful and often are turbocharged. These primarily 4WD cars are allowed adjusted engine displacements over 2.65 litres.


Hope that helps..

Basically as well as being a quick driver you also need to be an international lawyer these days

Richard

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Old 03-02-2001, 02:48 PM   #12
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Richard, I think you forgot to mention that the SCCA Open class still must fit an inlet restrictor. ("anything goes") Otherwise the Open class cars would be like Group B, making 400-500 bhp or more.
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Old 03-02-2001, 08:36 PM   #13
rsquire
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Errm..

Colinl

Some of the Open Class cars do run 400+hp even the old.. Whoops sorry older Volvos..

As far as I can see in the rules as long as an Open class car looks the same as the production car.. Who cares what happens under the Hood.

Now.. of course this is all about to change over the next couple of years as the SCCA really falls into line with the FIA rules.

Without which of course there can be no chance of a WRC event in the USA..

Richard
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