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Old 03-01-2001, 09:14 PM   #1
David S. Wallens
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Post Street Touring tire

Just doing a little research: What do you guys consider to be the four or five best tires for the Street Touring Street Tire autocross class?

David S. Wallens, managing ed
Grassroots Motorsports www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
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Old 03-01-2001, 09:24 PM   #2
Joe Lee
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and a red 94 Miata!

Post

Before anyone yells at you I would recommend doing a search in "Suspension, Brakes..." forum... (just kidding about the yelling)

Anyway, the most popular tires are Kumho 712's, Bridgestone S02 Pole Positions, Michelin MXX3s, and Yokohama AVS Sports...

Good luck!

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Old 03-01-2001, 09:27 PM   #3
Joe Lee
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and a red 94 Miata!

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P.S. Great magazine David! As a newspaper designer I can appreciate that yours isn't "all show - no go"... It's very readable, informative and timely without being "ricey" at all! Don't change...
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Old 03-01-2001, 09:58 PM   #4
kelley nelson
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BF Goodrich g-Force T/A KD
Won nationals, stable tread design, low void at the shoulders - I am waiting for mine to come from Tire Rack. Unfortunately very limited number of sizes available. (Where ARE you 215/45/R17!?)
(Contingency available)


Michelin Pilot SX MXX3
Gummy, very stiff sidewall and stable tread pattern. Best feedback I have ever gotten from a street tire. Performance seems to drop away after about 75 runs though. Might as well shave to 4/32nds. Some sizes phased out this year, Michelin wants us to buy Pilot Sports.


Kumho Ecsta 712
Seemingly inferior on paper, but popular! Good tire if you have a 'loose', aggressive driving style. Slidey, noisy, but is a proven performer. Cheap too! Lots of sizes available.
(Contingency available)


Bridgestone Potenza S-02 PP
High marks for wet and dry performance, not too many sizes available. Good treadwear rating.


Yokohama AVS Sport
Nice low treadwear rating. Square shoulders, more rubber on the road and fewer clearance headaches.
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Old 03-02-2001, 12:06 AM   #5
Scooby South
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Post

Let me throw my hat into the ring...

Dunlop SP9000- Steady Tread..Predictable breakaway...Good Wear..Good Grip..Great Dry OK Wet

Dunlop W10- Soosoo Wear, Sorta slippery and unpredictable, OK Grip, OK Dry, Great Wet

Sumitomo HZR- Totally unacceptable...period. Even with 10lbs above the Reccomended, they still roll over...

TOYO T1S- Really Decent Tire, Stable, Grippy,
Good Wet and Dry, Wear kinda fast

Agree with SS02PP...They are the best..I think...however the Toyo's are pretty close

Kumho's have great wear, and predictable handling...Really stiff sidewall But give up a little on grip comparded to the SS02 or the Dunlops.

We have a member here in Hawaii that just purchased the Goodyear Eagle F1...He saids hes surprized at the handling...Quick, agile and Decent wear so far..Hope that helps a little...All of these tires have been run by RS's in my area....Alooooooooha
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Old 03-02-2001, 07:53 AM   #6
ColinL
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Post

Kelley's list about says it all. I am mildly curious about the new Pirelli PZero Rosso, but right now it has a size availablility problem too. The old PZero Assymmetrico is a great tire, but like the Pilot MXX3 is just old technology and its day has come and gone.
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Old 03-02-2001, 08:42 AM   #7
Pilot
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I would remove the Kumho ECSTA Supra 712 from Kelly's list. All the top NESIC guys that ran them hated them for lack of grip, but loved them for being inexpensive. I would however add it to a separate list if inexpensive STS tires:

Kumho 712
Bridgestone RE71
Dulop SP 8000
BFG Comp T/A ZR
Birdgestone RE730

Also the Potenza S0-2 PP ins only truly good starting at about half tread, otherwise it just overheats and gets greasy.

In addition I disagree with Scooby South about the Dunlop SP9000 and the Toyo T1-S, both tires lack, grip, and overheat easily. I have no experience with the W10 or the Sumitomo.

ColinL,
I don't think the PZero Rosso will be as good in eth dry as the old P Zero Yellow. Pirelli is leaving the older tire in production for this reason.
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Old 03-02-2001, 08:44 AM   #8
5 Door Man
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I agree with what has been said above, from what I've heard. This summer will finally see a decently sticky set of tires on one of my cars. I'm going with the Kuhmos because of the price, more than anything. Also, the mag is great, my Impreza wears GRM stickers, and it's great to see a magazine really out there interacting with the enthusiasts!!! You guys do a bang up job, keep it up!!
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Old 03-02-2001, 09:58 AM   #9
kelley nelson
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I included the Kumhos a little reluctantly, but I have seen some pretty inexplicably good performance from them; very strange.

I would also contest the inclusion of the Dunlop SP9000. I have a set as daily driver tires, and while they are GREAT for that, they are not good competition tires. Too flexy in the sidewall, they drift strangely when pushed hard.
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Old 03-02-2001, 12:22 PM   #10
SUV-ETR
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David,

I hear the Sears store-brand really kicks ass!

Neal
(just trying to protect Opie a little...)
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Old 03-02-2001, 12:35 PM   #11
JayP
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Hey- don't know demander-defender-grandam-walmart tires... If you want to make your car feel like it has 300hp, stick a set of these guys on! And at the end of the day--- you don't care if you've chunked or corded them.

That's what makes rental cars so fast.

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Old 03-03-2001, 09:12 AM   #12
direwlf
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That and the fact that you really don't care if you rough up your rental, as long as you get your deposit back Nothing like a car you care nothing about for no fear driving.
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Old 03-03-2001, 09:21 AM   #13
RidinLow
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David, do I smell a possible tire comparison test in an upcoming issue? That would be sweet!
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Old 03-04-2001, 06:16 PM   #14
Opie
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Wink

Since I think I know why this question was asked... and where it's going so I'll throw my suggestions in:

BFGoodrich G-Force T/A KD or KDW's - Grippy, stiff sidewalls, responsive. Medium price.
Goodyear Eagle F1's (especially if you can source the Euro versions ) - Grippy, very stiff sidewalls, very predictable and responsive even at their limits. Seem to wear quickly and somewhat pricey.
Kumho ESTCA Supra 712's - Very noisy, yet still grippy and predictable, adequate sidewalls when they have a lot of air pressure. Great wear rate, low, low price. Still a competitive tire.

I have a dedicated set of Goodyear Eagle F1's (Euro versions, from Germany, the have the DOT stamps so there legal ) for auto-x's, but I have run the Kumho 712's (my street tires) a few times. The Kumho's have less feedback than the Eagle's, but they seem to perform just as well.

David - Will the Civic be making it to the March 18th event at Valencia Community College?
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Old 03-04-2001, 08:20 PM   #15
wistful
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RE92s rule!

Don
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Old 03-04-2001, 09:06 PM   #16
Patrick L
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Becasue ITS racecar

Post

Well I don't know about some of you guys.
I ran on SO-2 Pole Positions last year and they were great!
Here's my list.
In the dry.
1]Bridgestone SO-2 Pole Positions
2]Michelin Pilot MXX3
3]Pirelli PZero Rosso & BFG g-Force KDW
4]Kumho Ecsta Supra 712
In the wet.
1]Bridgestone SO-2 Pole Positions
2]Kumho Ecsta Supra 712
3]Pirelli PZero Rosso
4]BFG g-Force KDW
5]Michelin Pilot MXX3

The Toyo T1S, I have driven on and I was not really impressed. They would start screaming on dry pavement way before the SO-2s would.

BFG g-Force KD are nice would be number 1 on my dry list, if I ran a 17" wheel and wanted to pay a bunch. They have very few tires that are 17". You want to run a 16" or 15" if you can, to reduce the rotational force. I run on my stock 16", 16lbs wheels.
Some one said,"BFGoodrich G-Force T/A KD or KDW's - Grippy, stiff sidewalls, responsive. Medium price."
Medium Price!!!!
The cheapest KD is $200 in a 205/50 R17. As for the KDW's, it was $145 for a 205/55 R16, which is good.
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Old 03-05-2001, 02:23 AM   #17
scotto
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Has anyone run the Nitto 555 extremes in auto-x? I had a set on my car, they lasted 40k miles, including 3 track days. Ultimate grip pretty good, turn in quite good, not noisy when sliding, moderately progressive at the limits. Surprisingly good in the wet.
My current sumitomos HTRZ II's ride a little better, a little quieter generally, turn in is vague, ultimate grip ok, harder to tell where the limits are, more prone to hydro planing, a little cheaper than Nittos.
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Old 03-05-2001, 07:37 AM   #18
kelley nelson
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The Nitto 555 is excluded in the STS rules, and it can't compete with the real r-compound tires in the classes that allow them.

[This message has been edited by kelley nelson (edited March 05, 2001).]
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Old 03-05-2001, 08:48 AM   #19
scoobiejosh
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KN: Scotto may be refering to the z rated Nitto 555 Extreme ZR, not the Nitto 555-R which isnt allowed.

Josh
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Old 03-05-2001, 12:45 PM   #20
Red-Impreza
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Thumbs up

GRM - Great mag!

RE: Tires

Although I certainly wouldn't put them in the top 5, I believe some sort of honorable mention should go to the Yokohama A520's. They've done well for me at the auto-X (compared to the stock RE92's - LOL) and they're suprisingly sticky in moderate rain. I hate them on the street though - too loud and too "darty". The damn things will follow any groove in the road.

I have a couple of questions for the collective intelligence here.

I have a set of g-Force KDW's on order (because I couldn't get the KD's in 16"). How much stickier are the KD's then the KDW's?

Also, nobody mentioned this, but I heard that the SO-2 Pole Positions are a wet-weather version of the Bridgestone SO-2's. Is this correct? A friend of mine just missed fast time of the day (in the rain, none the less) by a few thousandths with a set of SO-2 (non-PP). What's the difference between these two tires?

Thanks,

-Red
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Old 03-05-2001, 02:29 PM   #21
STiShawn
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I run the Kumho 712's in auto cross, road course weekends and street driving. The comment about them being better for a "loose" style driving I disagree with. The times I have really pushed these tires (Watkins Glen), and auto crossing, I found them VERY predicatble, responsive when properly air'd, awesome grip, great price. They are very good in the rain, I dont find them to noisy, I've never had them scream more than any other tire has.....Over all, I love'em and plan on running them as my good weather tires for quite sometime, even on my Supperlegerra's come end of summer.
They dont overheat and get greasy very esily, even when they do, they handle well for hot tires.
Just my opinion, take it or leave it, dont flame me for it.
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Old 03-05-2001, 05:51 PM   #22
Pilot
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Red-Imp,

The KD is a completely different tire form the KDW. The dry grip difference should be substanital, however I've never driven either so I can't objectivly comment.

The SO-2 PP is a newer version of the original S0-2. The difference being a slightly more void in the PP version and the dual layer rubber compound. Original S0-2s are said to be more stable temperature wise than the PP version when new, however the PP version is MUCH beter from 50% tread to the wear bars than the original making the tires usable for a longer period of their life.
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Old 03-05-2001, 07:53 PM   #23
Red-Impreza
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Thanks for the feedback Pilot.

I knew the KD's use a different compound then the KDW's, I was just hoping someone had tried them both and could comment from experience.

From what you're saying, it sounds to me like the SO-2's would make a better auto-X tire and the SO-2 PP's would make better street tires.

-Red
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Old 03-05-2001, 09:36 PM   #24
Pilot
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Unless you get the PPs shaved in which case they will have stickier rubber.
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Old 03-06-2001, 03:37 PM   #25
Patrick L
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Yeah, TireRack rate the PP at 9.2 and the regular SO-2s at 9.3 in the dry.
My PPs are WELL WORN down. I have about 1/3 trend left on the tires, but they seem to get better as they wore down. I am just going to use them for racing to save the tires. I have a set of Kumho 712 on 17"s for everyday.
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