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Old 07-27-2002, 06:06 PM   #1
spt_impreza
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Default e-town brullen catback intrest

hey there.......i am going to be getting a brullen catback about the middle of august (give or take a week or so)....i was just wondering if there is anyone else out there who was/is considering buying a brullen? if anyone is interested please let me know......i will have to let GTBGUY know as he may be able to knock the price down a bit if we have more people. please let me know.........thanks

spt
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Old 07-28-2002, 09:58 PM   #2
spt_impreza
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bump, bump, bump, bump, bump.............bump, bump.

spt
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Old 07-29-2002, 11:11 PM   #3
Canadian 2.5RS
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sorry i just put mine in a month ago. by the way i love it!
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Old 08-02-2002, 08:54 AM   #4
codger
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I'm considering upgrading my exhaust. I've just begun to consider and research this (I've only now finished with research and decisions on handling mods, partway through installing them).

I need to determine if pre-emptive steps can be taken to completely avoid CEL lights; i.e. prep and install it so it doesn't occur, rather than dealing with the CEL light if/when it comes up. I've heard about moving O2 sensor location, wrapping with heat tape etc.


Other issues outstanding:

Get headers at the same time? How easy is it to add headers later?

What does it sound like live, compared to a Borla system? I've heard the sound clip of the two a while back (link is broken now tho), and heard a mean low rumbly WRX with a Borla sticker as he pulled out of a Safeway parking lot. I don't know what kind of a Borla system he had on, or how it compares to the 2.5 N/A sound.

What about other setups? Current Cobb package, new one supposedly under development? MRT with alternate muffler installed (cheap, powerful but rustprone and poor sound, difficult to do a good looking muffler upgrade)

Warranty is a slight issue also. IF I get engine problems, Subaru MIGHT blame it on this modification. That's a few ifs and maybes, but I've seen the odd thread where this has happened, IIRC.

Maybe I will be told to do a search in N/A (which I've done, read every post on this), but at some point I need to listen to someone's 2.5 with the Brullen exhaust in Calgary.

Jim
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Old 08-02-2002, 10:32 AM   #5
GTBGUY
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codger - I hope I can help you answer some Q's. Here're the soundclips:

(on EJ22 SOHC w/ CAI which you'll notice is louder then the exhaust itself, quiet acoustics)

Idle
Idle inside Cabin
Neutral Revving
Inside Cabin 3K rpm
Cruising around
Cruising around 2
Cruising around 3
Cruising around 4


*Note recordings done @ 11kHz sampling rate, 8bit mono and a crappy mic*

The "solutions" to get rid of the CEL w/ the MRT and Borlas are not necessary with the iON/Brullen set-up, as it will come with a new O2 sensor harness which will take care of that. CEL's are pretty common place on our cars b/c of the extremely sensitive knock, O2, and various other sensors. (ie: gas cap not being tight enough)

Ideally would be to do the full header-back system at the same time as it would:
(a) Minimize install time/effort & costs
(b) Maximize power

Adding the headers later is possible, however the mid-pipe flange would need to be modified with an adaptor to accept the new hi-flow cat.

Sounds are as above. If you want to hear it live, you'll most likely run into guys here in Calgary w/ the quiet or medium acoustic preference. There's only 1 guy here with a loud on the EJ25.

Borla for the WRX only has 1 system, it's somewhat "bearable" on the WRX b/c of the turbo soaking up much of the noise. The Borla on the N/A EJ25 is much louder, closer to a medium-loud acoustic preference on the iON/Brullen systems.

Cobb's package will still be quite awhile aways yet as they're still in the midsts of moving to SLC, and hence R&D has been postponed until they settle down in SLC. Also be prepared to pay some good coinage especially with the exchange rate and for shipping etc. (sheer volumetric size of an exhaust etc).

The MRT system is plagged by several different issues:
(1) CEL's on MY00-up vehicles
(2) Problems with their hi-flow cats breaking up
(3) Rusting
(4) Shipping costs / availability in Canada

In regards to your concern about warranty, Subaru cannot legally blame you on this modification due to several reasons:

(1) Exhaust is not a moving mechanical part
(2) The dealerships cannot deny you warranty unless S.O.C does
(3) It is their duty to prove that it was the part that caused the problem
(4) By changing exhausts, you already know that you've voided your warranty on the emissions equipment you've replaced (as they won't warranty someone else's exhaust only the OEM one).

Hopefully that answers some of your Q's and concerns

Last edited by GTBGUY; 08-02-2002 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 08-02-2002, 12:48 PM   #6
inpreza kid
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lol. i find it funny how GTBGUY speaks of the brullen exhausts that he sells as superior to anything else on the market. brullen has had problems too.

about the warranty issue. depending on the dealership they will void your warranty if any serious problems come up with your powertrain. before someone brings up the sema act which is "illegal for whoever to void your warranty... or whatever" that only applies to the US not Canada.
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Old 08-02-2002, 01:20 PM   #7
codger
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GTBGUY,

Thanks for the info. Nice to hear the CEL issue is on the way to being resolved.

I wasn't able to listen to the files you provided, either in Musicmatch or Real; I had the same problem in June also but moved on to handling issues. I did find another .wav file somewhere that had a Brullen Borla comparison that runs ok on either software. Best is too hear a Brullen live, so eventually I'll organize to do that. I suspect the Borla would be too loud from what I've heard,

I've pretty much downgraded the MRT since I'd like to get at least 5-7 years out of an exhaust, then put the stocker back on and sell the vehicle eventually. A Calgary/Canadian supplier might be a plus so that puts the Brullen and the Tech Works Engineering high on the list.

Warranty is still a slight issue; the manual is quite clear on modifications having such an effect.
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Old 08-02-2002, 09:06 PM   #8
spt_impreza
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will just a catback void your warranty????? i dont see how it could.....not that much perf gain....

spt
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Old 08-02-2002, 11:00 PM   #9
codger
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Quote:
will just a catback void your warranty????? i dont see how it could.....not that much perf gain....
It probably wouldn't. I think it was header back or engine back exhausts that cause CEL lights, not so much cat back, IIRC, but I could be wrong on that.

The more intrusive or extreme your mods, the more likely a judgement call would fall on blaming the mod for a problem. The cat back is pretty mild in that sense. For instance, if your stock muffler dies I don't think Subaru could blame a replacement, (Midas, Brullen or whatever), for some other problem, say piston slap or a blown head gasket.



Jim
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Old 08-03-2002, 02:59 AM   #10
inpreza kid
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actually i heard of a guy in calgary with tranny problems. he had warranty problems with the dealership for having just a aftermarket axle back muffler on....... so yes. if problems arise the dealership can blame it on anything they want as long as they can make up some excuse to go along with it.

i've had similar run in's with the dealership..... the best advice i can give you guys is keep your stock parts so if anything was to happen put your car back to stock.
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Old 08-03-2002, 02:12 PM   #11
schlong8
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InprezaKid: i think the guy ur talking about was Tulit. The dealership was having a crapshoot. Tarun was just fed up w/ the service, and the dealership couldn't prove his exhaust caused his TRANNY problems . I dunno y they try to do this crap, but it is really annoying to the consumer w/ the purchasing power. This is one of the problems w/ Subaru America/Canada. U'd think that w/ the release of the WRX, they would be more friendly, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

I've been fortunate too not run into these problems though.

Chris
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Old 08-03-2002, 11:49 PM   #12
inpreza kid
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lol. yeah. thats him. i didn't want to mention any names. hehe. as far as dealerships go i think rally subaru in edmonton is pretty good. nice service guys.

either way if you guys have any serious problems.... return your car back to stock before you take it in. that way they can't blame the problem on anything.

EDIT: the brullen quiet exhaust on the 2.5 is NOT quiet. it is pretty loud for a exhaust with 2 resonators. it is loud enough for cops to give you a ticket if they wanted to.....

Last edited by inpreza kid; 08-03-2002 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 08-05-2002, 01:55 PM   #13
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As Damian has expressed on this board on many occassions (and I'm beginning to agree with him), is that you need to establish a relationship with your dealer (whomever that is) and discuss your "upgrade" with the service department at your dealership before you put the modifed system on the car. Suspension stuff is relatively straightforward and they will probably give you very littel hassle about it, BUT, anything actually effecting the motor and they start getting "nervous" (with good justification I think). Exhasut upgrades are very minor, but I'm sure they would appreciate you discussing the matter with them anyway.

I would also like to add that if you come off as a jerk, they will probably tell you to take a hike. You get more with honey than you do with vinegar.

FWIW, I have found Marcus at the service counter at Rally Subaru to be a "Car Geek" kind of guy and I would highly recommend chatting with him if you plan on making some upgrades.

After my last service with them, I will likely have them do some of my aftermarket installs as it helps me AND them. They get some experience with the aftermarket product (which is good for ALL of us) and I get to develop a better relationship with the dealership.

My 2 cents.

Cheers,
MB

PS I am broke right now therefore I will be unable to afford any new aftermarket items for a while.
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Old 08-05-2002, 11:39 PM   #14
inpreza kid
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i've talked to the service guys there too. just about minor stuff. i had them do a price check on a few things for me like head gaskets and stuff. hehe. they are pretty nice for the most part.

lol. maybe markus can break the ice for us..... hehe. i don't know if i feel confortable with the dealership installing parts for me because i know for a fact they can't off any sort of warranty against installation error. i guess thats goes with anything being installed on your car thats aftermarket.
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Old 08-07-2002, 06:03 PM   #15
spt_impreza
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buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummp!!!!!!

spt
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Old 08-07-2002, 08:10 PM   #16
tulit
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Quote:
I would also like to add that if you come off as a jerk, they will probably tell you to take a hike. You get more with honey than you do with vinegar.
Sorry Markus, but I was more than nice to them. I started getting angry though after my car (no exageration) had been into the dealer 11 times for the same problem. I presume you would be the same....

They came up with this whole exhaust bull**** as an excuse to Subaru of Canada as to why they were useless and unable to perform simple tasks.

Peace.
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Old 08-08-2002, 11:59 AM   #17
GTBGUY
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tulit - which dealership? Centuar or S.O.C? If you still don't have the troubles resolved when you get back, contact : Ray Stankiwich, he's the W.Canadian regional service rep for Subaru. He should be able to act on Subaru of Canada's behalf to issue a warranty repair.
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Old 08-08-2002, 08:39 PM   #18
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Hi Jack.

It was Centaur. The cars been to Subaru of Calgary a few times now. I'm really not certain if its repaired or not yet...

But anyways, Ray is part of the problem. He just says the dealers are independant franchise and they can't do anything, and went along with the whole "my AXLE BACK muffler (which wasnt even on the car when I brought it in the first time, I had sold it to someone before that) caused the problem". I guess what he was able to do though was to authorize Subaru of Calgary to repair the problems Centaur made. My understanding was originally that if Centaur messed it up, I had to bring it to them, and only them to get repaired. Oh well. We will see when I return
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Old 08-09-2002, 07:11 PM   #19
spt_impreza
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guys...............i spoke with Marcus from Rally Subaru the other day about a catback exhaust.......he said that as long as it didnt have anything to do with the sensors(ie O2 sensor) in the car it would all be good. since the cat back it behind all that crap he sees not problems from just doing that. yippeeeeee..................i am gonna get mine for sure then......

spt
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Old 08-10-2002, 01:28 AM   #20
markus
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Good info Steve. Thanks for sharing.

You coming to the Autocross Cup?
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Old 08-10-2002, 08:53 AM   #21
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Anyone wanting a cat-back should look at this "Made in Alberta" alternative.

Tech Works Engineering

There's also a link to tell you a little more about it here
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Old 08-10-2002, 08:53 AM   #22
spt_impreza
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i have to work.......Aug 11????

spt
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Old 08-10-2002, 09:20 AM   #23
codger
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Default Tech Works Engineering

Quote:
Anyone wanting a cat-back should look at this "Made in Alberta" alternative.

Marcus,

Have you heard anything about power gains, sound quality etc of the Tech Works Engineering exhaust?

They have an intriguing header design, not sure if I want more than catback, but ya never know.

Jim
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Old 08-10-2002, 04:33 PM   #24
inpreza kid
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Quote:
Originally posted by markus
Anyone wanting a cat-back should look at this "Made in Alberta" alternative.

Tech Works Engineering

There's also a link to tell you a little more about it here
the only thing is their stuff is mild steel. you might want to look at getting it ceramic coated.... i heard they know their stuff so i may get them to do some engine work in the future.
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Old 08-10-2002, 11:12 PM   #25
codger
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Default Tech Works Engineering

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the only thing is their stuff is mild steel. you might want to look at getting it ceramic coated.... i heard they know their stuff so i may get them to do some engine work in the future.
I got an email from them a day or two ago; they have switched to stainless steel on the muffler and header back. The headers are still mild still I believe, but will come ceramic coated inside and out.

I like the fact that they are only a few minutes drive away.

Jim
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