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Old 03-05-2001, 08:14 PM   #1
Greg555
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Angry The truth behind..................... PRODRIVE

So the European Rally Champion Krzysztof Holowczyc (KH) is not coming to Chattanooga, neither is Possum Bourne, Asia Pacific Champion. See thread

Anyone has any Idea why??? --- because our beloved Prodrive doesn`t want any real competition here. They want Vermont Sports Car to have an easy Victory (at least in N group). They know that either one would kick their asses with no problem, which wouldn`t be good thing for Prodrive/Vermont Sports Car alliance. So they just decided not to let KH and Possum to run here.
KH is driving under "Turning Point Management" which cooperates closely with Prodrive (they also manage Markko Martin) and Prodrive asked Turning Point not to let him use the car in USA. I don`t know the details why Possum is not competing here either, all I know is that he really wanted to, but also encountered some Prodrive related difficulties.

Just my few words.
Greg

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Old 03-05-2001, 10:14 PM   #2
Dave_Clark
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Greg, are you surprised? Prodrive are huge control freaks.
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Old 03-05-2001, 10:38 PM   #3
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Thumbs down

Don't you love how "professional" ProRally is getting? I think I'll start bringing a lawyer to events, in case something doesn't go my way...
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Old 03-05-2001, 10:58 PM   #4
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Wink

Quote:
Prodrive are huge control freaks
Stuff Prodrive

You should not have used ...... and Capital letters in the subject line..

Don't you know that is the biggest, baddest mistake you can make on this board..

Now wait for the FIA stewards to hold an inquiry into the use of ........ oh and criticising Prodrive.. Well that's an immediate $50,000 fine as well




Richard
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Old 03-05-2001, 11:02 PM   #5
rsquire
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Talking

Quote:
I think I'll start bringing a lawyer to events
Jon

Just make sure that you have your name and national flag ( of the specified size) on the front fenders (wings) of your car..

Then you can protest EVERYONE under the FIA Sporting Conduct rules Chapter 17 para 208

You think I'm joking I'm not mate

The SWRT and Peugot etc etc are actually technically illegal under the FIA rules

Richard
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Old 03-05-2001, 11:53 PM   #6
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This really isn't any different than team orders in F1 or any other form of racing for that matter. It happens all the time in rallys. Remember when Delecour had to slow down last year to give the victory to Gronholm? This sounds like a different form is all. What's the big deal?

I can't say that I'm happy about the decision made by ProDrive.
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Old 03-05-2001, 11:58 PM   #7
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I do not know about prodrive stoping any one from rallying, But I would like to see it come out of the drivers lips, not by here say. Who know's thay maybe afraid of john Buffum ??? RALLY ON ///////
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Old 03-06-2001, 08:16 AM   #8
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Angry

Quote:
But I would like to see it come out of the drivers lips, not by here say
Take my word for it. I know people that were doing the logistics behind inviting KH to drive here. And no, hes not scared of John Buffum. With all due respect to his skills and talent I think KH would kick his ass. Until yesterday I really liked Prodrive, for what they have done in WRC, but thats just pissing me off.

He was gonna be driving a Prodrive build car so I don`t see how bad would that be for them if he would come here. But the problem is that it wouldn`t be good for Vermont Sports car.

Anyways I`m pissed.
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Old 03-06-2001, 09:55 AM   #9
TOMMY B
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Chill out Mr 555, My comment about your friend being afraid of John Buffum was A JOKE !!!, Any one that drive's at the WRC level must be a out of this world. John Buffum is the best RALLY DRIVER from the U.S.A and thats who I'm pulling for. I do not see the need to keep blowing smoke about your friend from Poland. Do you realy care that much ???? Try Rallying more your self RALLY ON //////
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Old 03-06-2001, 10:42 AM   #10
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Thumbs down

its terrible, but dirty polotics make its way into everything in our lives in some way shape form or fashion doesnt it?
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Old 03-06-2001, 10:53 AM   #11
TOMMY B
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This Has nothing to do with Poloics here, "We" are both talking about rallying !!. Do not try and make it any more of it then it is !!! "God help us all" RALLY ON /////
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Old 03-06-2001, 12:18 PM   #12
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Angry

Ok Mr Tommy
Yes I do really care that much, it took us months to get the sponsors and set everything up, and regardles of how good Buffum is I was hoping to see some World Class driving finally here.


Even If I didn`t know the guy, how fare is it to let some people run and others don`t.
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Old 03-06-2001, 12:22 PM   #13
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Off note here, I just found it funny Tommy told Greg, of all people, to rally more.

Sorry, just found that amusing.

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Old 03-06-2001, 12:29 PM   #14
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Snapperhead - I was just thinking the same thing. He'd think different if he saw Greg's 'body kit'.
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Old 03-06-2001, 12:36 PM   #15
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Question

OK, for all of us not from Schaumburg IL, who's Greg555 and why is it so darn funny that Tom (in his own slightly abrasive way) suggest Greg might want to run some rallies?
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Old 03-06-2001, 12:40 PM   #16
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Greg would if he could
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Old 03-06-2001, 12:51 PM   #17
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Well yes, you would have to know Greg in order to find that funny, which is why you shouldn't say things about people you don't know. Like telling him to rally. Greg is who introduced me heavy into rally. He follows it religiously, and as he said. If he had more $$$$$$ he'd be doing it more frequently. For someone to say he shouldn't care about this, well, its pretty foolish. Coming from Poland, Greg was very saturated with Rally, seeing is its huge over there. unfortunately, here in the midwest state of IL, it's hard to find local rallies. Lets just say he drives his car like a rally driver. And its fun as hell to drive with him.
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Old 03-06-2001, 04:06 PM   #18
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that is disappointing. although rumor has it Bourne (who i was really looking forward to seeing) is going to be there observing.
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Old 03-06-2001, 04:26 PM   #19
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kind of like when that newbie told Kartboy to learn how to drive, eh?
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Old 03-06-2001, 05:01 PM   #20
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Getting back to the topic a bit. Is it really so wrong for Prodrive to implement these "rules"?

When you look at it through Prodrive's as well as SOA's point of view, it makes a bit of sence. On one hand you have SOA releasing a car in a virtually untouched, and still questionable niche market. On the other hand, I have heard numerous talks about Prodrive looking to market their products in the US very heavily in the future.

From a marketing point of view, what better form of promotion would there be then a Prodrive prepared Subaru WRX winning rallies in the US, especially with the way the Pro Rally is growing in popularity.

I'd like to see more world-class drivers run here in the US as much as anyone. Maybe Prodrive pulled the other guys out for a different reason, but if what I mentioned above has any basis on their decision, I can see why they would do so. Maybe not agree totally, but can understand why it was done.
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Old 03-06-2001, 10:11 PM   #21
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KH would have been running(and winnning) in an identical car as Scheible is running. Which offcorse means that even if KH did win teh rally, a Prodrive build Gr.N Impreza would still be on the podium.
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Old 03-07-2001, 01:02 AM   #22
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Yeah

Whatever Jay said...
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Old 03-07-2001, 01:16 AM   #23
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i agree..and he has a killer "body" kit/battle wounds from Rallying around here.

Greg is a great guy, i can say this becuase I KNOW him. I too feel the same way Greg does, this sucks, Prodrive is ruining a shot at becoming a big name in the american household and instead letting VT motorsports become a umm..how to put it... mediocre sized name with rally fans. They do great work and every it is just well.. they sholdn't let the one effect the other.

lets use company X for example.

They build cars for multiple teams running against each other, but they keep doing it, why because they are doing what they love and it gets their name out to more and more people, along with being able to help the teams grow and help the company grow at the same time.

This is what it should be like..but it isnt'

anyhow, Greg i hear on the $$$ issue, my pocket is REALLY hurting after the motor and the new car *shrug* aghh well.. that's life. live and learn, and then go make another mistake and learn from that, and use all the things you learned to do something positive for somebody, be it yourself, somebody else, etc.

i will shut up now..i am mumbling away for no reason what so ever.

and how can you tell Greg to rally more..i don't think it is possible
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Old 03-07-2001, 04:13 AM   #24
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Very true Rallykid, I see your point. But another way to look at it is similar to Andrew Cowan's(RalliArt UK Boss) thoughts that without competition, there would be no use for motorsports at all.

Subaru and Prodrive want to see the two Prodrive Imprezas beating the best that there is here( The Hyundai guys, the Mitsubishi guys, etc.), not two guys most have never heard of over here driving identical Imprezas.

And who knows. Subaru may plan on truely working Mark Lovell and Karl Scheible into possible commercials, Magazine Adds, or even dealer posters or something. The last thing Subaru would need is for two realitively unkown guys( again, here in the states anyway) to come over hear and beat them.

Subaru and Prodrive are businesses and must make decisions based on the results of many different scenarios( what I mentioned above), not just one possible outcome( more possible Imprezas on the podium).

It's similar to a team order. No one really likes to see them. But at the end of the year if the team orders helped bring a driver's or manufacturer's championship to that company, those one or two rounds where the team orders were implemented are quickly forgotten, but the championship is remembered( and exploited) for alot longer.

I could be way off though
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Old 03-07-2001, 05:52 AM   #25
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HI, Tommy B here, I see your point Greg 555, But I see it just the other way, Prodrive makes contracts with people "your freind K.H" and V.T. sport car and others, Prodrive is Honouring there word, so is your freind, I must say that Prodrive is good and your freind too, If he had thought he was in a bad deal he would leave Prodrive.
now for you commemts about me, I have not rallyed as much as i did in the past but, I will be at STPR this year god willing. Over the past 3 years i have gotten married,had a new baby girl,bult a new home 4,000 Sft that I G.C. my self. I Will go head to head with you at a rally and let the better man win Tell us about your rally car so I know what i have to look forward too, I have 91 Trubo legacy in (PGT) what do you have??? or are you just a rally enthusiast ?? or Both like me ?? RALLY ON ////////

[This message has been edited by TOMMY B (edited March 07, 2001).]
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