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Old 07-22-2011, 05:51 PM   #1
mrcoder
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Default New 2.5 liter turbo boxer-4 to be in next Porsche

The Porsche will probably from £35,000 slotting in underneath the next-generation Boxster, which will grow notably in size and cost.


The car will get a new four-cylinder boxer engine that will also power the Boxster, the Cayman and potentially even the 911. Sources say the flat four motor is sized at 2.5-litres and has been producing around 360bhp in turbocharged form.


The outgoing head of R&D Wolfgang Durheimer said at the Detroit show last January: “We have a four-cylinder boxer engine under development.” He admitted that the unit “can be applied” to the Boxster and Cayman.


Durheimer said the unit “could be applied if necessary to the 911. Our decision is, on the 911 side, we’ll stay with the flat [six]. But there are opportunities for the future.”


Source:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...aspx?AR=258322


Say now, what took you so long Porsche? Welcome to the future!
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:06 PM   #2
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Wow... 360bhp out of a boosted 2.5L 4-cylinder is very nice.

I won't lie, it'd be awesome if Subaru could squeeze that much out of their STI engine but I think the production cost might rise considerably at those levels.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:15 PM   #3
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If individuals can squeeze 360hp from the STI then Subaru can too.

Cosworth does it.

360 is not all that hard really. My car dynod at 344 WHP, according to the shop who did the tune for me. I don't believe the shop BTW, I think 344 is probably the engine HP.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manticus View Post
but I think the production cost might rise considerably at those levels.
Do ya think?
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:43 PM   #5
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If individuals can squeeze 360hp from the STI then Subaru can too.

Cosworth does it.

360 is not all that hard really. My car dynod at 344 WHP, according to the shop who did the tune for me. I don't believe the shop BTW, I think 344 is probably the engine HP.
I wasn't asking whether anyone could squeeze 360hp or more out of an engine.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manticus View Post
I wasn't asking whether anyone could squeeze 360hp or more out of an engine.
I'm pretty sure he was just emphasizing in agreement. That's how I read it, anyways.

Kind of like backing you up.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:47 PM   #7
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Do ya think?
It would be interesting to see (ie. Youtube vid) what kind of testing a company does before certifying an engine as being production ready. What kind of stresses do they put it under, how long does it have to run continuously, etc.

Check out the Youtube vid of the A380 Blade-off test from Rolls Royce. That was awesome.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:48 PM   #8
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I'm pretty sure he was just emphasizing in agreement. That's how I read it, anyways.

Kind of like backing you up.
Ah, ok. That's why I put mr. confused-face smilie on it.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:07 PM   #9
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mass produce it and give it to Subaru.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:19 PM   #10
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Yeah, can we get a Porsche/Subaru (Porscubaru?) INSTEAD of the FT-86? That would be a pretty nifty co-development. Screw the costs!
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manticus View Post
It would be interesting to see (ie. Youtube vid) what kind of testing a company does before certifying an engine as being production ready. What kind of stresses do they put it under, how long does it have to run continuously, etc.

Check out the Youtube vid of the A380 Blade-off test from Rolls Royce. That was awesome.
I know a lot more about gas turbines than I do about car engines. One thing I can say is that the consequences for a GT failing are larger than for a V6 or flat4 in your car.
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Old 07-22-2011, 08:51 PM   #12
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interesting information and i love me some porsche, but this thread should be in non-subaru news.
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Old 07-23-2011, 09:16 AM   #13
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I don't gets the adoration. I have been at 400whp for 5 years and 70K miles with zero problems on the stock internals. That is with first gen AVCS. Modern engine with direct injection and variable valve control, etc SHOULD be in the 360 area. Subaru has been lagging behind for a while and needs to step up their game. Direct injection, variable valve timing, 45-50# turbo, should produce 350 engine HP and 23-28 MPG.

I love Subaru, obviously, but they need to step up the game big time.

Last edited by BLACK02WAGON; 07-23-2011 at 05:37 PM. Reason: MPG not MPH
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK02WAGON View Post
I don't gets the adoration. I have been at 400whp for 5 years and 70K miles with zero problems on the stock internals. That is with first gen AVCS. Modern engine with direct injection and variable valve control, etc SHOULD be in the 360 area. Subaru has been lagging behind for a while and needs to step up their game. Direct injection, variable valve timing, 45-50# turbo, should produce 350 engine HP and 23-28 MPH.

I love Subaru, obviously, but they need to step up the game big time.
You don't get it. "I run 400whp with no problems" is miles away from "Subaru can run an entire fleet of cars 400whp with no problems".
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK02WAGON
I don't gets the adoration. I have been at 400whp for 5 years and 70K miles with zero problems on the stock internals. That is with first gen AVCS. Modern engine with direct injection and variable valve control, etc SHOULD be in the 360 area. Subaru has been lagging behind for a while and needs to step up their game. Direct injection, variable valve timing, 45-50# turbo, should produce 350 engine HP and 23-28 MPH.

I love Subaru, obviously, but they need to step up the game big time.
Hopefully it will go faster than 28 mph with 350 hp. 8)
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:42 PM   #16
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You don't get it. "I run 400whp with no problems" is miles away from "Subaru can run an entire fleet of cars 400whp with no problems".
Pay attention. I said 350 FWHP not 400 at the wheels. I understand that I am somewhat in the minority with my durability but 350 is realistic and should have been done a while ago.
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:43 PM   #17
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Hopefully it will go faster than 28 mph with 350 hp. 8)
You right....my bad.
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Old 07-23-2011, 04:25 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by manticus View Post
It would be interesting to see (ie. Youtube vid) what kind of testing a company does before certifying an engine as being production ready. What kind of stresses do they put it under, how long does it have to run continuously, etc.

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Old 07-23-2011, 05:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcoder View Post
If individuals can squeeze 360hp from the STI then Subaru can too.

Cosworth does it.

360 is not all that hard really. My car dynod at 344 WHP, according to the shop who did the tune for me. I don't believe the shop BTW, I think 344 is probably the engine HP.
That's a 4% difference. Who cares.
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Old 07-23-2011, 07:10 PM   #20
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Pay attention. I said 350 FWHP not 400 at the wheels. I understand that I am somewhat in the minority with my durability but 350 is realistic and should have been done a while ago.
You're still miles away from warranty-level production quality. Subaru can't afford to have even a "minority" unreliable or else the cost of replacing said engine adds another 5k to the cost of the car for replacing the engine and dealing with the inevitable fallout of a tarnished Subaru reliability brand.


Those are awesome vids!
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Old 07-23-2011, 07:57 PM   #21
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Those vids are awesome. I wonder how many engines they've starved of oil on those rigs.
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Old 07-23-2011, 09:26 PM   #22
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take current subaru engine, modernize it with DI and other stuff and 360 is VERY easy to obtain.. Hyundai gets 280hp in Sonata out of 2.0 Turbo..
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:49 AM   #23
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Hyundai also has alot more assets available to it compared to Subaru, which is a smaller company. It's interesting to see what the Toyota partnership holds in store; theoretically it should alleviate Subaru of the initial R&D cost of producing DI.
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:14 PM   #24
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That's a 4% difference. Who cares.
You apparently
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:19 PM   #25
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take current subaru engine, modernize it with DI and other stuff and 360 is VERY easy to obtain.. Hyundai gets 280hp in Sonata out of 2.0 Turbo..

Exactly. DI is way overdue for the STI. Subaru needs to do a little more work in order to earn their money now that every economy car has DI. Chevy Cobalt SS, every new Hundai engine....

Gas mileage will go up too with DI by about 10% based on other cars. DI is just more precise.
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