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Old 07-23-2011, 11:06 PM   #1
Dc_wrx
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Default 2 Data Logs. What to look at?

So I drive a 2005 WRX with down pipe and exhaust. I'm running the 91 octane stage 2 map. I did 2 data logs # 17 was on the freeway giving some gas and #18 was just driving in town normally. Just wondering what I really need to be looking at. I did notice some numbers in the fine knock, is that normal? Any info would be great!
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Old 07-24-2011, 12:26 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Dc_wrx View Post
So I drive a 2005 WRX with down pipe and exhaust. I'm running the 91 octane stage 2 map. I did 2 data logs # 17 was on the freeway giving some gas and #18 was just driving in town normally. Just wondering what I really need to be looking at. I did notice some numbers in the fine knock, is that normal? Any info would be great!
Post the logs, and people can give you some feedback.
Ideally, you don't want any type of Knock Correction, whether it be Fine Learning Knock Correction (FLKC) or Feedback Knock Correction (FBKC).
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:59 AM   #3
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Post the logs, and people can give you some feedback.
Ideally, you don't want any type of Knock Correction, whether it be Fine Learning Knock Correction (FLKC) or Feedback Knock Correction (FBKC).

Yea I guess that would help right lol. Here they are.

This one was on freeway.
https://spreadsheets0.google.com/spr...hl=en_US#gid=0

This was just driving around town for a few mins.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hl=en_US#gid=0
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Old 07-24-2011, 09:01 PM   #4
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So I flashed back to my old stage 2 (accessport thinks its stock tune) and had crazy knock and then flashed back to the same tune from the data logs above and have zero knock now... Why would reflashing to my stock map(stage 2) and then flashing back to cobb stage 2 change the knock? I did fill up with safeway gas yesterday it was 91 octane but I usually fill up with shell I wonder if this had something to do with it.

Last edited by Dc_wrx; 07-25-2011 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:42 AM   #5
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Yea I guess that would help right lol. Here they are.

This one was on freeway.
https://spreadsheets0.google.com/spr...hl=en_US#gid=0
The Fine Learning Knock Correction that is positive means that the ECU is adding a little bit of timing, when it is negative, that is when it means your ECU is pulling timing in response to a knock event.

Your IAM (or DAM with a AccessPort) is only 13, ideally you want it to be 16.

In this log, it is hard to tell exactly how happy the car is because we need AFR to really see the whole picture.

I will suggest that you double check your car for any post-MAF leaks or vacuum leaks. It seems like your AF Learning numbers when operating in Closed Loop are typically positive, meaning that it is adding fuel. It also appears that you are not hitting your boost targets, which could possibly point to a boost leak as well.

It is very possible that when the ECU pulled timing from lines 141 to 149, it is because you are leaning out due to a vacuum leak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dc_wrx View Post
This was just driving around town for a few mins.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hl=en_US#gid=0
This log tells me similar things from the log above, your ECU is definitely not running full advance, with your DAM still at 13. I wish you had AFRs logged as well.

Could you possibly talk to someone locally to get them to get a Learning View Snapshot of your ECU? That will tell you quite a bit as well.

Let me re-iterate, these opinions are just my personal understanding of your logs, so take it all with a grain of salt. It definitely appears your ECU is not "completely happy" and I would suggest talking to a local who has some knowledge with tuning/logging to get a little more info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dc_wrx View Post
So I flashed back to my old stage 2 (accessport thinks its stock tune) and had crazy knock and then flashed back to the same tune from the data logs above and have zero knock now... Why would reflashing to my stock map(stage 2) and then flashing back to cobb stage 2 change the knock? I did fill up with safeway gas yesterday it was 91 octane but I usually fill up with shell I wonder if this had something to do with it.
It is possible that a sub-par tank of gas caused your car to pull a little bit of timing.
With the Fine Learning corrections being positive and negative, it is possible your ECU is "re-learning" and trying to adding some timing back into the equation.

I would still suggest giving the car a clean bill of health, double checking for any boost/vacuum leaks, and doing any and all other maintenance.
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Old 07-25-2011, 03:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyHelloOfficer View Post
The Fine Learning Knock Correction that is positive means that the ECU is adding a little bit of timing, when it is negative, that is when it means your ECU is pulling timing in response to a knock event.

Your IAM (or DAM with a AccessPort) is only 13, ideally you want it to be 16.

In this log, it is hard to tell exactly how happy the car is because we need AFR to really see the whole picture.

I will suggest that you double check your car for any post-MAF leaks or vacuum leaks. It seems like your AF Learning numbers when operating in Closed Loop are typically positive, meaning that it is adding fuel. It also appears that you are not hitting your boost targets, which could possibly point to a boost leak as well.

It is very possible that when the ECU pulled timing from lines 141 to 149, it is because you are leaning out due to a vacuum leak.


This log tells me similar things from the log above, your ECU is definitely not running full advance, with your DAM still at 13. I wish you had AFRs logged as well.

Could you possibly talk to someone locally to get them to get a Learning View Snapshot of your ECU? That will tell you quite a bit as well.

Let me re-iterate, these opinions are just my personal understanding of your logs, so take it all with a grain of salt. It definitely appears your ECU is not "completely happy" and I would suggest talking to a local who has some knowledge with tuning/logging to get a little more info.



It is possible that a sub-par tank of gas caused your car to pull a little bit of timing.
With the Fine Learning corrections being positive and negative, it is possible your ECU is "re-learning" and trying to adding some timing back into the equation.

I would still suggest giving the car a clean bill of health, double checking for any boost/vacuum leaks, and doing any and all other maintenance.
Ok so here is a log after the flash to the AP stage 2 map the same as the ones above. its not a 3rd gear pull although I did get on it pretty good at the beginning, I will do a pull today and put it up later. No fine knock but a little bit in feedback. I am now getting 16 in DAM. I am trying so hard to understand all this its pretty much a different language but Ive been reading Romraider like crazy, it has some good info that is easy to understand.

Is learning view something I can do? I was reading about it online, I download it and just plug the computer into the car right?

Does this log show a problem also? weird how the knock is gone in fine knock but shows a couple events in feedback. Thanks for all your help!!

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hl=en_US#gid=0

This one shows Feed back knock of -4.22 on lines 434 to 438.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hl=en_US#gid=0

Last edited by Dc_wrx; 07-25-2011 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:23 AM   #7
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Here is a 3rd gear pull. I'm no expert but I think it looks much better then the previous log. I'm hitting boost and DAM is 16 and no knock. Although I am seeing a little bit of feed back knock, not durring the pull but just driving around, just wondering if I should be worried?? you said its fine unless its large correction, I don't know what is concidered large buts its -4.22 for a few lines. I've seen this 4.22 in previous logs only for 4 lines each time??. Thanks for your feedback!

3rd gear pull
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Alq6Q4J2BGmtdFJGTjg0ZDRaUXc0VjI2WWpwRDJNb Hc&hl=en_US#gid=0[/URL]
driving around showing feed back knock of -4.22 on lines 110-114
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Alq6Q4J2BGmtdFVyZ053OXFDOEU3NWxka2E3OUpRN mc&hl=en_US[/URL]
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Old 07-26-2011, 10:37 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Dc_wrx View Post
Ok so here is a log after the flash to the AP stage 2 map the same as the ones above. its not a 3rd gear pull although I did get on it pretty good at the beginning, I will do a pull today and put it up later. No fine knock but a little bit in feedback. I am now getting 16 in DAM. I am trying so hard to understand all this its pretty much a different language but Ive been reading Romraider like crazy, it has some good info that is easy to understand.

Is learning view something I can do? I was reading about it online, I download it and just plug the computer into the car right?

Does this log show a problem also? weird how the knock is gone in fine knock but shows a couple events in feedback. Thanks for all your help!!

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hl=en_US#gid=0

This one shows Feed back knock of -4.22 on lines 434 to 438.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hl=en_US#gid=0
I don't have much experience with looking at the Cobb OTS Maps, but I have a feeling something is a little bit off.

In Datalog 21, you are still knocking from 5500 to 5800ish, if you also look at the lines above the knock event, you are not hitting the target boost in the map. Have you checked your car for boost leaks yet?

On Datalog23, your DAM is back down to 12.
This means that your car is still not completely happy. I am going to either chalk it up to a bad tank of gas, or I really need you to start logging AFRs.

You can also see that you are knocking at low RPM, high load situations. Look at lines 102 to 107, your RPMs are 1900, but your load is 0.7, you can also see that the timing jumps up significantly from 5, to 7, to 29 degrees in less than a second. Try not to lug your car around in higher gears at lower RPMs, this seems to be the cause of the knock in this situation.

The same thing happens in Datalog23 on lines 434 to 438, low RPM (980), high load (0.8) and the timing jumps quickly. You can see that the car actually detects knock twice, because after it pulls -2.11 degrees, it pulls another -2.11.

Just looking at the AFR corrections in this datalog too, it is adding fuel in closedloop operation. Please check for boost leaks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dc_wrx View Post
Here is a 3rd gear pull. I'm no expert but I think it looks much better then the previous log. I'm hitting boost and DAM is 16 and no knock. Although I am seeing a little bit of feed back knock, not durring the pull but just driving around, just wondering if I should be worried?? you said its fine unless its large correction, I don't know what is concidered large buts its -4.22 for a few lines. I've seen this 4.22 in previous logs only for 4 lines each time??. Thanks for your feedback!

3rd gear pull
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hl=en_US#gid=0
In this log, everything looks okay at WOT. You aren't logging target boost, but I remember your targets being 16+ in the midrange, which you still aren't hitting. However, you aren't knocking, so it doesn't look bad. Like I have said, I can't tell the whole picture because I can't see your AFRs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dc_wrx View Post
driving around showing feed back knock of -4.22 on lines 110-114
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...pRNmc&hl=en_US
The knock that you are logging in this log is the same as I described before. It looks like you are lugging the car a little too much in low RPM in higher gears. Also, this log still appears to be constantly adding AFR Correction, which still points to a potential boost leak.

Check your turbo inlet for any type of tears or rips, and triple check that your intercooler y-pipe is fastened properly and not torn either. A lot of the time, a Post-MAF leak will allow unmetered air to enter the intake tract, which will cause the engine to lean out. This is why I believe you are having a typical positive AFR Correction, which means the ECU is trying to correct things by adding fuel.

Next logs you do while cruising (not WOT pulls), go ahead and log Air Fuel Ratio so we can try to see what is going on.
Definitely get some quality gas in the car too.
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:53 AM   #9
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The knock that you are logging in this log is the same as I described before. It looks like you are lugging the car a little too much in low RPM in higher gears. Also, this log still appears to be constantly adding AFR Correction, which still points to a potential boost leak.

Check your turbo inlet for any type of tears or rips, and triple check that your intercooler y-pipe is fastened properly and not torn either. A lot of the time, a Post-MAF leak will allow unmetered air to enter the intake tract, which will cause the engine to lean out. This is why I believe you are having a typical positive AFR Correction, which means the ECU is trying to correct things by adding fuel.

Next logs you do while cruising (not WOT pulls), go ahead and log Air Fuel Ratio so we can try to see what is going on.
Definitely get some quality gas in the car too.
I checked everything not seeing any leaks or tears, but so much stuff to check ya know.
Ok so here is some crusing with the AFR on. Can you explain what you would be looking for on the AFR? Thanks!

Crusing with AFR logged. Same gas though still got a half a tank.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...J3R0E&hl=en_US

Last edited by Dc_wrx; 07-27-2011 at 02:01 AM.
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:41 AM   #10
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I only skimmed this thread, but some of the questions above are answered in the links below...

How to make useful logs:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=33&t=5384

How to read them:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=33&t=6156
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:11 AM   #11
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I only skimmed this thread, but some of the questions above are answered in the links below...

How to make useful logs:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=33&t=5384

How to read them:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=33&t=6156

I've been reading the **** out of that website last few days. Its a ton of info, still trying to learn what it all means. I like Romraider cause it explains it in a sorta easy way. But still nice to help reading them.
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Old 07-27-2011, 09:07 AM   #12
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I checked everything not seeing any leaks or tears, but so much stuff to check ya know.
Ok so here is some crusing with the AFR on. Can you explain what you would be looking for on the AFR? Thanks!

Crusing with AFR logged. Same gas though still got a half a tank.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...J3R0E&hl=en_US
Are you still on the same OTS Stage II Map?

This cruising log looks better. You aren't knocking at all, however, your DAM is still only 13. You can see in certain load/rpm areas where it is adding 0.35 Fine Learning Knock Correction Back in.

Basically, if you look at the AFR Learning Column, anywhere you see numbers, that means your car is operating in closed loop, which means its AFR Target is 14.7 (stoich) for emissions and gas mileage. In closed loop operation, the ECU is looking at the AFR Readings from your front O2 sensor, and the air coming into the engine via readings from the MAF, and making corrections to keep it operating at stoich.

Anywhere that the AFR Learning goes to 0, that means it has switched to Open Loop Fueling, which means it is going off of a preset table of fueling targets based off of load and RPM.

Your factory O2 Sensor can log AFRs in closed loop operation pretty well, so that is why I was asking you to log it. It looks like your AFRs are in a safe range, so my original thought of you having a boost leak has somewhat gone out the window.

Assuming everything else mechanically on the car is sound (no vacuum leaks, good spark plugs, clean air filter, replace fuel filter, make sure the pcv assembly is clean, clean MAF, oil change, etc.), I would continue to drive carefully and use most of this tank of gas. Get a good tank of gas, and hard reset the ECU (unhook the battery and press the brake pedal). This will clear all of your timing and AFR learning values. Drive the car and keep an eye on your DAM to see if it makes it back up to 16 (upon reset, the ECU goes back to 8 for safety).

From there, get some more logs of the car cruising, and make sure you don't have any negative Fine Learning Correction.
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:31 AM   #13
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Are you still on the same OTS Stage II Map?

This cruising log looks better. You aren't knocking at all, however, your DAM is still only 13. You can see in certain load/rpm areas where it is adding 0.35 Fine Learning Knock Correction Back in.

Basically, if you look at the AFR Learning Column, anywhere you see numbers, that means your car is operating in closed loop, which means its AFR Target is 14.7 (stoich) for emissions and gas mileage. In closed loop operation, the ECU is looking at the AFR Readings from your front O2 sensor, and the air coming into the engine via readings from the MAF, and making corrections to keep it operating at stoich.

Anywhere that the AFR Learning goes to 0, that means it has switched to Open Loop Fueling, which means it is going off of a preset table of fueling targets based off of load and RPM.

Your factory O2 Sensor can log AFRs in closed loop operation pretty well, so that is why I was asking you to log it. It looks like your AFRs are in a safe range, so my original thought of you having a boost leak has somewhat gone out the window.

Assuming everything else mechanically on the car is sound (no vacuum leaks, good spark plugs, clean air filter, replace fuel filter, make sure the pcv assembly is clean, clean MAF, oil change, etc.), I would continue to drive carefully and use most of this tank of gas. Get a good tank of gas, and hard reset the ECU (unhook the battery and press the brake pedal). This will clear all of your timing and AFR learning values. Drive the car and keep an eye on your DAM to see if it makes it back up to 16 (upon reset, the ECU goes back to 8 for safety).

From there, get some more logs of the car cruising, and make sure you don't have any negative Fine Learning Correction.
Cool thanks man! I will do that. I just had a oil change and plugs replaced haven't checked the fuel pump tho, or cleaned the MAF, and i'll read up on the pcv. I'm hoping its just the gas.
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