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Old 07-28-2002, 10:07 PM   #1
blaster88
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Default Attn midnx03 - you got some splainin to do!

An interesting news piece:

Quote:
Another word academy visitors won't hear this summer is kill. When the new commandant, Col. John Allen, overheard a plebe platoon shout it in unison a couple weeks ago, he ordered the word purged from their vocabulary. He said it was too early in their careers to think about the "kill piece" of military training.
The kill piece?

You have a Marine Comm and he says "kill piece"?

And that it is too early to think about the kill piece at this stage of their military training?

Navy plebes go to the rifle range, don't they? They shoot at man (person) shaped silhouettes, right?

We are currently at war, like right now, not later in these beanheads careers, right?

Kill piece. Sheesh.

Sorry, I just needed to give some squid a ration and you were closest.


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Old 07-28-2002, 11:47 PM   #2
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Next we'll have troops deployed with empty guns, or no guns, so as not to upset the enemy.

No wait, we already did that.

Thanks to unarmed troops we have:

Beruit Barraks (driver of bomb truck was laughing at guard who
was unarmed)
Molshtah (US soldiers pinned down at OP/LP unarmed

The Cole (Sailors on deck had no effective weapons so as not to
offend host nation, who is a major terrorist sponsor)
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Old 07-29-2002, 12:40 AM   #3
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Well there is a LOT of research going into non-lethal weaponry...
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Old 07-29-2002, 01:17 AM   #4
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Thumbs down

You had to hear AJ explain that to me, Bob and Matt,, Friday night as we were doin his suspension install im like "this is a joke right AJ?" I thought he was kidden or it was some small matter at the academy.Little did i know id be reading about in the paper the next day.Unbelievable
Rudy
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Old 07-29-2002, 01:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Well there is a LOT of research going into non-lethal weaponry...
I prefer to see my tax dollars go to the kind that actually kills the enemy so that we don't have to fight the same fight over. It is an absolute waste of resources. I don't think that China is working on non-lethal nukes, or that Sadaam is refining non-lethal nerve agent.
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Old 07-29-2002, 06:58 AM   #6
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As long as we keep a republican in office I would hope that our military will grow and that we will never see non lethal weapons...

Damn democrats. I find myself becoing more and more republican by the day. I seriously hate the hippie views of the democrats. I mean if you look at at the events that Scott mentioned ....who was in office ...yes thats right a f*ckin democrat

He forgot one ....lets not forget Somalia where we lost what 13? 17? Army Rangers. IM sure you all have seen Black Hawk Down. WHy did we lose those men ...cause we didnt have effective ground support and teh reason for that is because Clinton didnt want to appear to War like. Look at how that turned out.

Also lets not forget Bosnia. Now where we didnt lose many american lives ...Clinton did totally deplete or missle arsenal....mmmmmmm or tax dollars at work people. "Lets spend 4 million dollars to blow up some 5 dollar tents with no one in them"

I swear hippies and Democrats can seriously blow me. I wish they all would chain themselves to trees ...so i can cut it down and crush them


I could see why midshipmen wouldnt want to use the word "kill". I mean if they did kill anybody they might get blood on their pretty white uniforms

Rich
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Old 07-29-2002, 11:36 AM   #7
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Cadence heard at the Academy Plebe Summer Program:
"Left Right Left Right Left Right MAIM"

or

"Left Right Left Right Left Right SHOOT HIM IN THE LEG TO IMMOBILIZE HIM INSTEAD OF KIL.... errr SEVERLY HURTING HIM"

I believe this has all stemmed from an incident involving a POS Plebe, 3 detailers and a bayonet. Those three detailers were taken from the detail program because of what was said. And I'll give you one guess as to the word they used. And it rhymes with "ill"

Yeah, the entire process has gone down hill. Apparently, attrition is no longer in their vocabulary. Kids want to leave, and the higher ups look at them and say...
"Make it to the AC year, stay a while, then say 'yes' or 'no'. Can you do that for me?"

In doing the Weapons Detail (TRYING to qualify these mungheads on the M16 and M9) I've seen some real winners. *shakes head* Plebe summer just ins't the same.

They cannot drop the plebes in Bancroft. Spot corrections are a thing of the past. They cannot PT the plebes outside of Pep in the morning. It's 6 weeks of happy fun time at USNA!! Man, I entered this place too early. It'll be a party this year.

I'll let you guys know more when I get back on the T1 at school. This 56K@home is killing me.

AJ
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Old 07-29-2002, 12:21 PM   #8
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AJ -

I dunno if the USNA has a similar saying, but at USMA it was "The Corps Has," meaning that things are steadily going downhill. This is an old, old saying. And everybody says it.

But I can assure you of some things. First of all, whatever the deal is at plebe summer, it isn't going to be as bad as you've heard. No party, I am sure. Second of all, this too shall pass. And thirdly, it will probably all work out.

When I was a beanhead, there was no "physical correction" allowed. Nobody got dropped - it was not allowed. That came back again after my day, but only in a very regulated fashion - only x pushups in an hour, etc.

When I was a yearling, the cadre was instructed that the plebes were not to say "kill" in bayonet training, but the cadre had them do it anyway. That went away, too.

Shoot, for a while, we had a Commandant who banished area tours, saying they were illegal. (they're back again)

I hope that COL Allen was misquoted or taken out of context or something that like that. If not, I hope Rummy yanks him and puts him at the coffee station in the Pentagon, replacing him with someone who doesn't mind talking just like the Secretary of Defense.
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Old 07-29-2002, 02:31 PM   #9
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"Damn democrats. I find myself becoing more and more republican by the day. I seriously hate the hippie views of the democrats. I mean if you look at at the events that Scott mentioned ....who was in office ...yes thats right a f*ckin democrat"

When I joined the Army, the military was in the age of Regan and Bush, moral was high, it was well funded, training happened and we were combat ready accross the board. By the time I got out at the end of 96 it was a broke, demoralized, innefective organization with low moral. I watched Clinton destroy the military and now we have years of rebuilding ahead of us.


"He forgot one ....lets not forget Somalia where we lost what 13? 17? Army Rangers. IM sure you all have seen Black Hawk Down. WHy did we lose those men ...cause we didnt have effective ground support and teh reason for that is because Clinton didnt want to appear to War like. Look at how that turned out."

Been there did that. We went there to feed people, local warlords started stealing and selling the food to the people. So we fought the warlords, who's army was made up of the people that they were selling the "free" food to. Our unit was on the otherside of the airport but we saw the trucks and helos going in and out. The only weapon I had was the Colt 45 that I brought my damn self and kept concealed.


"Also lets not forget Bosnia. Now where we didnt lose many american lives ...Clinton did totally deplete or missle arsenal....mmmmmmm or tax dollars at work people. "Lets spend 4 million dollars to blow up some 5 dollar tents with no one in them"

Been there done that. Once again, the M16 had an empty magazine in it, the only ammo was 255 rounds of .223 bought at WAlMart and hidden in my pack.
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Old 07-29-2002, 02:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pipercub
"Damn democrats. I find myself becoing more and more republican by the day. I seriously hate the hippie views of the democrats. I mean if you look at at the events that Scott mentioned ....who was in office ...yes thats right a f*ckin democrat"

When I joined the Army, the military was in the age of Regan and Bush, moral was high, it was well funded, training happened and we were combat ready accross the board. By the time I got out at the end of 96 it was a broke, demoralized, innefective organization with low moral. I watched Clinton destroy the military and now we have years of rebuilding ahead of us.


"He forgot one ....lets not forget Somalia where we lost what 13? 17? Army Rangers. IM sure you all have seen Black Hawk Down. WHy did we lose those men ...cause we didnt have effective ground support and teh reason for that is because Clinton didnt want to appear to War like. Look at how that turned out."

Been there did that. We went there to feed people, local warlords started stealing and selling the food to the people. So we fought the warlords, who's army was made up of the people that they were selling the "free" food to. Our unit was on the otherside of the airport but we saw the trucks and helos going in and out. The only weapon I had was the Colt 45 that I brought my damn self and kept concealed.


"Also lets not forget Bosnia. Now where we didnt lose many american lives ...Clinton did totally deplete or missle arsenal....mmmmmmm or tax dollars at work people. "Lets spend 4 million dollars to blow up some 5 dollar tents with no one in them"

Been there done that. Once again, the M16 had an empty magazine in it, the only ammo was 255 rounds of .223 bought at WAlMart and hidden in my pack.

See exzactly what im talking about ......I hate democrate ...traficant was my favorite democrat now i dont have one ....bastards ...every time i see a democrat or F*ckin hippies i just wantto take a endangered beaver and shove it up there ass

Rich
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Old 07-29-2002, 02:59 PM   #11
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Well, I'm as big a Bush fan (both I and II) as you'll find, but it isn't exactly right to lay these kinds of policies directly at the feet of the Democrats. The bombing of the barracks and Beirut occurred during Ronald Reagan's first term (as did our slinking away in the face of it, though we did have the New Jersey pound Lebanon with 16 inch guns for several months after that happened).


There are a lot of reasons behind why we have Marine Colonel's shielding freshmen at the Naval Academy from the "kill piece" of the military business. One thing is that we can afford to do that. Or enough people think so.

Strangely enough, September 11th did NOT change everything in the US. Despite the whole "we will never forget" approach to the aftermath, in general, most people have forgotten, or at least the impact of it has subsuded.

People are starting to feel safe again.

Which, in a way is good.

But in a way, it is dangerous.
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Old 07-29-2002, 05:42 PM   #12
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There's more to the story. It's not what it sounds like. And it does not belong on the public boards.

But I like this discussion anyway, so lets keep it going.

With the new era of the "kinder, gentler navy" and the like, I'm not sure what is going to happen. We just lost V. Adm Ryan, and gained V. Adm Naughten (SP?, haven't met the guy yet). From my Weapons Batt. O. this summer, the new Supe is VERY hands on. The rule was passed that if you were caught messing with plebes and had no right to do so (not a detailer) you were automatically put up for seperation. It will be interesting to see how things go for the first month of 5.

As well, the TBS standard for civilian clothes is being done. Jeans will be a thing of the past. Basically, dress like a dork and you'll look like an officer. No problems for me, as I already look weird.

Quote:
Strangely enough, September 11th did NOT change everything in the US. Despite the whole "we will never forget" approach to the aftermath, in general, most people have forgotten, or at least the impact of it has subsuded.
Yes, I agree. There is a "parent's club" for USNA people, and the new parents of the class of '06 (Feel old?) are very whiny. "They're mistreating our sons and daughters." and the like. Hello?!?! We're in the military! It's not supposed to be easy. My roommate said we have basically the same as every other year; a good helping of people who really want to be there, some that don't know, and others that are complete s*** bags. It's all to be expected. I just hope that most of them have a clue what they are truley getting themselves into. Like the girl who cried through 3 courses of fire on the M16. THAT was fun.

I don't know what to expect come the 14th of August at reform. It should be interesting. I know it isn't going to be a party, it was just sarcasm. It seems the Academy is on the downward swing. I figure, maybe another year or 3, then things will toughen up again. But, I'm leaving in less than a year, so I'm not too worried.

I'm more excited to get out into the real Navy and start kicking ass.

AJ
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Old 07-29-2002, 05:58 PM   #13
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AJ, its a weird world.

I forget what year it was, I think class of 89 (that was 1985, and you think you feel old), where a young woman was nominated from California. She was the lone survivor of the McDonald's crew from that got shot up by that whack job.

Lets just say she had some issues. Like the day they got BDU's issued. She freaked out with that, because the whack job was wearing camoflauge. And o joy, she went to the rifle range, and indeed, the whack job had used an M16.

I forget how long it took her to drop out, I think she made it to the academic year, but not long.

But I have to wonder why she wanted to go, why someone would have sent her.

We went through the you can't mess with the smacks deal, too. Some of it went underground, some of us just left them alone.

I used breakfast as an instructional tool, not as hazing. But that was back in the day when I was a real a-hole, not the imitation one I am now.

PM me about the real deal.
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Old 07-29-2002, 08:33 PM   #14
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This thread is fascinating. You'll excuse me if I am diverging from the topic a bit, but I've never had any military experience whatsoever, but I think this is all relative.

Wolf earlier went on a rant about democrats, and I have to agree with him (and now here's MY rant). And one of the main reasons that we are seeing this "gentler, kinder" military is because the liberal democrats have been attempting, for a very long time, to brainwash us to buy into the "moral equivelancy" philosophy.

Basically, they're preaching that there is no right or wrong. They equivicate the terrorist who murder's innocent people with the military that reltaliates, saying one doesn't have the right to attack the other. The clearest example I can think of is the US's attitude towards Israel:
Yes, lets all agree that we can stop all this nonsense fighting by saying that the suicide bombers who kill innocent children in school busses and innocent teenagers in dance clubs, are of the same moral equivalence as the army soldiers that retaliate against them (they're both retaliating against violence right?). Neither have the right to kill the either.. it's all a misunderstanding, a difference of beliefs. But who's to say one is more correct than the other?

That's what's really going on here. It's a "dumbing" down of sorts.. a breaking down of ethics, morals, values. Devaluing that which is good in order to make that which is bad seem not so bad. They do this instead of getting rid of what's bad. What they want is to get rid of black and white and have only grey. Unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way.

Don't you remember all the Americans joining the bandwagon after Sept 11 saying that the terrorists were justified to do what they did because of the things we've been doing to them? UUUm, let's see.. these countries are poor and the people are suffering and we do nothing. WHy shouldn't they be angry and wanna kill 3000 innocent civilians and destroy several blocks of one of our greatest cities? After all, they're poor and we're rich right?

But Bush isn't so innocent himself. He was worried that a massive, immediate counterstrike against Afghanistan would irritate our other Arab "friends". He didn't want to upset countries like Egypt, or Syria (one of THE largest terrorist spawning nations in world!), etc. So he befriends yet another terrorist state, Pakistan, in order to appease our Middle Eastern friends...

Our friends in the MidEast folks are our enemies, cut and dry. (don't start flaming me for being anti-muslim or whatever cuz I'm not. I'm anti terrorists and the democrats that protect them) Nations that oppress their citizens. nations that have revoked every personal and individual rights. nations that have stolen US and UN aid that was meant for the poor and suffering. Nations that still believe that a word against the leader is a crime punishable by death. These are the nations and the people that GWBush did not want to upset. These are the nations and the people that we are supposed to be morally equal to.

Now we just tell them sternly and slap their hand (gently) when they start producing nuclear and chemical weapons. And although we know that these weapons will be directed right at us in just a matter of a short time, we cannot possibly be so indignantly rightous as to "force" them not to build these. Heck.. maybe the nukes will help ease the suffering of their people by planting seeds and building irrigation ditches?

- This concludes our segment of Issues of Morality, a PBS I-CLub special. Now back to regular programing
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Old 07-29-2002, 09:22 PM   #15
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Just after the conclusion of Desert Storm George Bush Sr started to dismantle a great deal of the military and following him Clinton continued that trend. So really the decline started with a Republican out of budget constraints. Clinton did like to launch million dollar missiles at empty tents though or a milk factory in Sudan. Even though at the same time the Sudanese gov offered to hand old Osama over. Then again this was the same Pres who called the Chinese a ally.

The sad part is idiots in the Islamic world who hate the US for not helping the poor countries of the region. These are some of the same countries who are very wealthy and yet never did a damn things to help them either. However they have oil so we kiss their ass and do whatever it takes to keep them in power.
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Old 07-29-2002, 10:23 PM   #16
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Endless -

While I think that the whole business of moral equivalency is just plain wrong, I wouldn't lay the issue of a "kinder, gentler" military at the feet of Democrats and other toad lickers who want to "visualize" world peace. A lot of where we are today has come from a world of Realpolitik, promoted by Henry Kissinger - that we can work with a bad guy if our interests converge. Unfortunately, that is a short term strategy. Long term peace is brought about by democracy. We never could have made a deal with Imperial Japan or to Nazi Germany (Stalin tried, they screwed him) to bring about peace, we had to occupy them, write them a new Constitution, make sure they were willing to play nice, and then turn them loose. When we teamed with Stalin, in the end, he ended up screwing us, and some 100M people ended up dead as a result. We have a long list of bad guys whom we have befriended who ended up either turning on us or ending up a terrific burden: Shah Reza Pahlavi, Manuel Noriega, Saddam Hussein....

Our sudden friendship with President Musharraf of Pakistan is in that same vein. We were going to use Pakistani airspace to attack Afghanistan, with or without Musharraf's permission. Not having to fight just to get to where we wanted to fight was a big plus. But, I think we are being smart, and we have pressured him to announce that he is holding elections and moving toward democracy. We just can't let him backslide now that most of the fighting is over there.

This is by no means an indictment of US policy in general, saying that we have created our own problems, but I do think that we suffer sometimes from not having the courage of our own convictions. There are countries out there that chastise the US for insisting on democracy and human rights, saying we are arrogant and just trying to force our way on others. But we have reason to believe our way is right - again, look at Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. They are gone, and noone mourns them. They are among our staunchest allies (Germany has some 1400 troops in Afghanistan, for example, and Japan put its first warship in the Gulf for us), and the world is a better place now that they are democracies.

The bottom line, then, is that Realpolitik is a necessity for the short term, but cannot be the driver for our long term goals. Democracies and tyrants are natural enemies (I know you are a Marylander, but spend a little time studying the Virginia flag if you want to see what I mean), like lions and lambs. The world yet awaits the peacemaker who will make those lie together.

I think is what is looming for the Middle East, because ALL of the Arab countries are run by tyrants, save Turkey, which is in NATO and is itching to get a piece of Saddam Hussein along with us.

I don't think that the wait time on Afghanistan had to do with not getting the Arab nations upset - I think putting a killing blow on the end of a 8500 mile logistical line was the hold up.

I think we will see a drive to democratize the Arab world, if only just to stop all the wars that are raging as a result of their tyrannies. Our current acceptance of them is not simply driven by oil - 3 very large producers, Iran, Iraq, and Lybia are on the out list, other non oil producers like Egypt and Jordan claim to be our friends.
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Old 07-30-2002, 12:16 AM   #17
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Two countries exist: Country A is democratic, country B is a dictatorship. Both live under intense snow conditions. Country A's people choose to drive a WRX because the AWD system has proved superior in the snow. Country B on other hand, must drive Mustang 5.0 in the same conditions. Country A people are happy and move along at great velocity towards their goals. Country B spins and spins their tires but get nowhere. Country A feels bad and sends a shipment of AWD WRX's to country B. Country B's dictatorship steals the shipment and makes off with it while it's people continue to suffer under rear wheel drive non-perfromance in the snow.

Moral Equivalency is wrong on several levels, but fundamentally wrong in two majore levels: One, is that AWD is proven to be better in snow than rear wheel drive, and two, the people in Country B have no choice about what they drive. Therefore it is really easy to conceive of which country is morally greater than the other, but Moral Equivalency denies this.

Anway, I've been told I get too emotional about this stuff So i've edited my answer to Blaster's repsonse for brevity and objectivity. Here Goes:

I understand what you're saying about RealPolitiks: We simply play our cards to our advantage it has nothing to do with pacifism.

[quote]but I do think that we suffer sometimes from not having the courage of our own convictions[quote]

Again- Moral Equivalency

[quote]But we have reason to believe our way is right - again, look at Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany[quote]

Exactly. what more is there?

[quote]I don't think that the wait time on Afghanistan had to do with not getting the Arab nations upset - I think putting a killing blow on the end of a 8500 mile logistical line was the hold up[quote]

I'm gonna get flamed but: ICBM's. Make it swift, fierce, and with as little American casualty as possible. Take out tyranical regime, insert temperary democratic regime until the people are determined to be able to govern themselves under capitalism. Capitalism works, doesn't matter the culture.

One show of brute strength and the world of opressive tyrants would be on their knees.

Israel, physically, only boasts.. what... 10% of the entire land cover of the MiddleEast? Every Arab nation surrounding Israel has attacked it for its rightous capitalistic convictions. Israel stood firm in its convictions because they were right. Israel won, and Israel is one of the most civilized countries in the MidEast.

What does the Arab world have to offer? What do the Palestinians have to offer the world if they are awarded a land of their own? They are governed by terrorists. That will be their only contribution to the world. Is this something we should place a moral judgement on? You Bet it is. And its our duty to do so.

Anyway, as a side note, I remember reading that the booming oil industry in Saudi Arabia was founded by American business tycoons. The Saudis had no idea what oil was and what it was used for. When they had finally smarted up, they nationalized the oil reserves- stole them right from under America's very nose. I think it was Truman that was president at the time but correct me if I'm wrong. He was too scared to stand up for his convictions and turned the other cheek. That was the begining, slowly but surely, America lost it's courage to uphold its convictions and the Tyrants started to gain thiers.

[quote]other non oil producers like Egypt and Jordan claim to be our friends[quote]

Yes they do claim that but you should see the anti-America propaganda in their state-run newspapers. Besides, they're anti-Israel which means they're anti-capitalism which means they're anti-America as well (It's not all about religion there).

Last edited by Endlesshine; 07-30-2002 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 07-30-2002, 01:59 AM   #18
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im drunk now ill respond more indepth tomrrow ...Fu*k Clinton and all his hippie tree loving whale saving goat humping asshol*s.....i wish i could fuc* them in the ear while their mothers kiss my fu*kin ass.......fuc*ers.......

Ya thats it mes going to bed ....


WOlf
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Old 07-30-2002, 10:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
i wish i could fuc* them in the ear
I would hope that even in your drunken state you would remember to wrap that rascal - I would be very afraid of what you might catch.
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Old 07-30-2002, 03:44 PM   #20
Endlesshine
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Default whoa, blaster88 speaks jive!!

Blaster, I thought this would be entertaining. I've quoted you although I coulda easily quoted me but hey, sue me. So here is Blaster88 on politics:



While I think dat da damn whole business o' moral equivalency be plum plain
wrong, I wouldn't lay da issue o' some "kinda', gentla'" military at da damn
feet o' Democrats an' otha' toad licka's who wanna "visualize" world paice.
Some lot o' where we be today has come from some world o' Realpolitik, promoted
by Henry Kissinga' - dat we kin work wit' some way baaad guy if our interests
converge. What a ripoff. Unfortunate-like, dat be some short term strategy.
Long term paice be brought about by democracy. We neva' could have made some
deal wit' Impuh'ial Japan o' t' Nazi Germany (down low, Stalin tried, they
screwed him) t' brin' about paice, we had t'occupy them, scribble them some
fresh Constitushun, make shaw they wuz willin' t' play supa' fine, an' den turn
them loose. When we taimed wit' Stalin, in da fat-lady, he fat-ladied down
screwin' us, an' some kinda' 1-Dubba-0-****in'-M sucka's fat-ladied down wo'm
food as some result. We have some long list o' way baaad guys whom we have
befriended who fat-ladied down eitha' turnin' on us o' fat-ladyin' down some
terrific burden, dig dis: Shah Reza Pahlavi, Manuel Noriega, Saddam Hussein....

Our sudden friendship wit' President Musharraf o' Pakistan be in dat same vein.
Slap me some skin. We wuz fixin' t'esploit Pakistani airspace t' jack
Afghanistan, wit' o' without Musharraf's puh'mission. Not havin' t' fight plum
t' git t' where we wanted t' fight wuz some big-ass plus. But, I think we be
bein' smart, an' we have pressured him t'announce dat he be holdin' elecshuns
an' movin' toward democracy. We plum caint let him baxlide now dat most o' da
damn fightin' be ova' dair.

Dis be by no mains some indictment o' U-S policy in general, sayin' dat we have
created our own bugs-up-da-ass, but I do think dat we suffa' sometimes from not
havin' da damn courage o' our own convicshuns. Dair be countries out dair dat
chastise da damn U-S 4 insistin' on democracy an' human rights, sayin' we be
arrogant an' plum tryin' t' force our way on otha's. But we have raison t'
recon' our way be right - again, peek at Impuh'ial Japan an' Nazi Germany. They
be gone, an' noone mourns them. They be among our staunchest allies (down low,
Germany has some kinda' 1400 troops in Afghanistan, 4 'esample, an' Japan put
its fust warship in da Gulf 4 us), an' da damn world be some betta' place now
dat they be democracies. Ya' know?

Da bottom line, den, be dat Realpolitik be some necessity 4 da short term, but
caint be da damn driva' 4 our long term goals. Democracies an' tyrants be
natural enemies (down low, I know yo' ass be some Marylanda', but spend some
tiny-ass time studyin' da damn Virginia flag if yo' ass wanna spot whut I
main), likes lions an' lambs. Da world yet awaits da paicemaka' who will make
dose-dair lie togetha'.

I think be whut be loomin' 4 da Middle East, becuz A-Dubba-L o' da damn Arab
countries be run by tyrants, save Drumstick, which be in N-A-T-****in'-O an' be
itchin' t' git some piece o' Saddam Hussein along wit' us.

I duzn't think dat da damn wait time on Afghanistan had t' do wit' not gittin'
da damn Arab nashuns upset - I think puttin' some cackin' blow on da fat-lady
o' some 8500 mile logistical line wuz da hold down. Homie don't play dat.

I think we will spot some roll t' democratize da damn Arab world, if only plum
t' stop all da wars dat be ragin' as some result o' deir tyrannies. Our current
acceptance o' them aint simply driven by oil - 3 real damn fat-ass produca's,
Iran, Iraq, an' Lybia be on da out list, otha' non oil produca's likes Egypt
an' Jordan claim t' be our homies.
.


More Jive...

Copyright 19102
Joel A. Tropp

(Over 239 ofays served today. Over 1769352 since 1 October 1998.)
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Old 07-30-2002, 06:48 PM   #21
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Amazing thread guys. Really.

Yea that's all us democrats care about is the trees and making sure soldiers don't have bullets. And I thank you for expressing your feelings about us with such thoughtful, intelligent, well-educated vocabulary. It is good to know who wishes I was dead before attending a meet; and fills me with hope for the future knowing that it matters not whether you've actually met me or not.



:monkey: ?

naaahh, more like:


Last edited by lucien2; 07-30-2002 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 07-30-2002, 11:22 PM   #22
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Lucien -

I would be flattered, because apparently they want some aural sex!

Quote:
We wuz fixin' t'esploit Pakistani airspace t' jack Afghanistan, wit' o' without Musharraf's puh'mission. Not havin' t' fight plum t' git t' where we wanted t' fight wuz some big-ass plus.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 07-30-2002, 11:40 PM   #23
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So I got that going for me.....which is nice.......

Oh well, if they want nuclear, oh wait, W is prez...I meant nucular war on some piece o' desert, whose to stop 'em?

Ahem, anyway,
Piper and I have had our political differences before, and we worked them out quite well off the boards. I respect him for the service he's put in, and I think we can agree to disagree. It is the deeply, breathtakingly lame format these blanket slurs were uttered that irritates me. One of the many cool things about mid-a is the low signal-to-noise ratio relative to the rest of i-club. This kind of foul-mouthed hate speak doesn't belong over here.

I just thought we were better and more mature than that. Consider for a moment how you sound when addressing sensitive issues like another person's politics, m'kay? 'kay.


Last edited by lucien2; 07-31-2002 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 07-31-2002, 09:46 AM   #24
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Lucien, the advantage of having a discussion such as the one above, on this forum is that people who find it offensive don't have to read it. Personally, I would have loved for a democrat to jump in and put his two cents worth. Although I tend to be pretty opinionated and stubborn, I do really enjoy other point of views and perceptions. My stubborness often does not allow me to see other perspectives of situations so when somebody chimes in with an opposing view point it is a great and interesting learning opportunity for me.


No, I don't wish you or anyone else dead. And that jive... I was bored and thought it would be pretty damn funny to read such a provoking thread in jive. And as I'm writing this response, I myself am starting to get irritated because all of a sudden I'm finding myself apologizing for my opinions which I hate doing.

But it's all good. No Playa Hait'n as educated folks say.
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Old 07-31-2002, 10:33 AM   #25
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Endless-

Your thoughts were presented very well indeed. It was Wolf's brain-searing manifesto I have an issue with, wherein he does indeed advocate crushing us all to death with a redwood or something. His even more insightful epilogue not included.

So while we're at it, a republican was President in 1984 when the Beirut incident took place. It was also a republican President who worked with Osama bin Laden to oust the Soviets, then dropped all interest in helping the country out of a mess completely created by outside forces, setting the stage for our current situation. It wasn't Bill Clinton who sold them all those Stingers and whatever we found in the mountains, folks. He wasn't around for Iran-Contra, either.
It wasn't Kennedy who paid the CIA to overthrow populist Iranian leader Mossadeqh and install Reza Shah Palavi. It wasn't Jimmy Carter who then dispatched the CIA to train the Shah's brutally repressive, non-democratic secret police (SAVAK). A government that was so brutal (and U.S.-supported) that it was a cake walk for the exhiled ayatollah to forment the 1st real Islamic Revolution in 1979....the American embassy was the epicenter for THAT little party for a real good reason.

On a different vein, Ken Lay is a great republican- let W borrow the company jet a few times during the primary as a matter of fact. I'm pretty sure there aren't too many democrats working at Andersen either.


So just keep in mind there is a lot of mud slinging to be done on both sides. It's why I've never made such ridiculous blanket statements about another political school of thought. Because in the late 20th and early 21st centuries, politicians care less and less about principles and more about how to stay in office. And that goes for both sides of the aisle.
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