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Old 07-29-2002, 12:05 AM   #1
annointed
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Default ET and trap mph difference, nitrous vs. no nitrous?

Can those who use nitrous please post if they have run the car with and without nitrous, and what shot they use? I'd like to get a feel for how much faster a given car is on the bottle, since I'm looking at a 50-60 shot for my beast.

Also, how long does a bottle of Nitrous last (say, 10 lb), and how much is it to fill it up? How much longer would it last running a 25 shot from 2500-5000 rpm (to help spool a bigger turbo like a 600 cfm TD05-18G )

Thanks!

Mark
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Old 07-30-2002, 05:34 PM   #2
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No one has responded to your post so I will help. I don't use nitrous on my WRX but I do know what kind of performance increase it gives. With a 75 shot on a WRX you can expect to make close to 100hp due to the cooling effect. That can drop 1/4 mile times buy close to a full second.
It is not recommended running that high of a shot on modified WRX's. A 35 shot or 50 shot would show a 50-75hp increase in performance. That would shave about a 1/2 second off your 1/4 mile times.
Phil was running 12.4-12.6 ish @ 108- 110 mph or so without nitrous. He now runs 11.9s - 12.0s with 115 - 118mph traps with a 50shot I believe. So you can see thats a big jump in HP.

Last edited by SGOSWRX; 07-30-2002 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 07-30-2002, 08:15 PM   #3
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I went 12.98@106 without and 12.49@110 with a nitrous 50 shot.
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Old 07-30-2002, 08:23 PM   #4
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I will help:
A 50 shot from an NOS brand Nitrous setup with the stock jetting is worth 50-65hp at the wheels in most cases depending on mods. Keep in mind that jetting is for a STOCK car. No mods...

A 50 shot is worth nearly a second in ET. Your results will vary due to the cooling effect of the nitrous. For example. One car might run a little turbo with high boost making a very hot intake charge. These setups will have more of a gain then on a car running a larger turbo with less boost starting with a cooler air charge. One car might be a bit lean off the bottle but have plenty of fuel on the bottle due to the wet kit's fuel jet. My injector duty cycle drops 15% on the bottle. I no longer have to depend on the injectors for my fuel.

Another thing to consider is launch. If I use NOS in first and run a 1.603 sixty foot time and then do not spray through the rest of the gears I will gain 2-3 tenths at the other end of the track over my non NOS launch of 1.7 something. In other words the biggest gain is in the first half of the track with NOS. A 7.33 @ 98 mph 1/8th mile time is going to make that 1/4 look mighty nice even if you dont spray the entire run.

As for how long the bottle lasts, If you are spraying for fun and do 1st and 2nd gear pulls with some 3rd the bottle will last a very long time. I remember getting three full nights of fun out of a bottle. Thats 20-30 pulls per night. If you are drag racing or doing extended pulls on the bottle in higher gears you will find you go through that bottle in one/two nights of racing.


Hope this helps.

CT
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Old 07-30-2002, 10:28 PM   #5
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Thanks a lot AZ! Plenty of numbers... may they be accurate is not of interest...

I knew the cooling effect of nitrous was extremely good for FI cars, just didn't know exactly... a small 50 shot that *could* give me 0.8-1.0 second on the 1/4 is the easiest and cheapest way... it's extremely safe also because like you said it's a wet kit so injectors don't see any increase or go static... cooling is superb and unless you installed it yourself and it was your first time I can't see it go wrong unless you went JET MAD (kinda like boost envy hehe) and buy some bigger and bigger jets 'cause you can't get enough, but then I hope you blow your engine 'cause yo stupid

450$ for almost a second! There's no way in hell even Shiv could come up with that (not meant as an insult at all!)
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Old 07-31-2002, 12:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubyRex
Thanks a lot AZ! Plenty of numbers... may they be accurate is not of interest...

I knew the cooling effect of nitrous was extremely good for FI cars, just didn't know exactly... a small 50 shot that *could* give me 0.8-1.0 second on the 1/4 is the easiest and cheapest way... it's extremely safe also because like you said it's a wet kit so injectors don't see any increase or go static... cooling is superb and unless you installed it yourself and it was your first time I can't see it go wrong unless you went JET MAD (kinda like boost envy hehe) and buy some bigger and bigger jets 'cause you can't get enough, but then I hope you blow your engine 'cause yo stupid

450$ for almost a second! There's no way in hell even Shiv could come up with that (not meant as an insult at all!)
If you do not jet UP and you dont trigger the system with the engine off you will be ok.. I have a knock link and I has saved my engine many times. I watch it as I run and if I see it flash I let out. I just cant see a 50 shot hurting anything but your clutch

I love Nitrous.
CT
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Old 07-31-2002, 06:41 AM   #7
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Could you explain the use of a knock-link, and what it monitors, and why it's needed???

Also, do you control exactly how long it lasts? I know some kits come on automatically at wide open throttle, and I don't want that...
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Old 07-31-2002, 08:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by WRXGuyInTulsa
Could you explain the use of a knock-link, and what it monitors, and why it's needed???

Also, do you control exactly how long it lasts? I know some kits come on automatically at wide open throttle, and I don't want that...
A Knockling is a little device that monitors noise from your engine, ti will detect knock/detonation and will display on a set of LEDs how much is occuring... once you start hitting high yellow, you better let off the gas before it hits red, it just ain't fun seeing those red light go off hehe. High detonation = engine problems down the road for sure...

Now, you can put "pills" with a nitrous kit... it's basically a solenoid (I think) of some kind that monitors RPM and engages/disengages nitrous... example with a 3000-6500RPM pill:

WOT = first solenoid closes circuit (on)
2000RPM = second solenoid stays open so no nitrous (depending on the pill you used)

This is good 'cause some people don't want nitrous at such low RPM...

Now:

WOT + 3500RPM = nitrous engaged
then once you reach 6500RPM is disengages nitrous automagically so even at really high RPMs just before you shift (around 6800-7000rpm depending on gear) you won't have nitous while you shift...
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Old 07-31-2002, 08:46 AM   #9
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Sweet.... I think I'd like to do this... Is there any other mods I should have before I attempt a nitrous kit? Like intake, or exaust??? Right now I just have an AEM on, and a boost controller. What else should I do???
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Old 07-31-2002, 09:16 AM   #10
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No, not really... unles you haven't gotten rid of those stock RE92s... the 50shot from NOS comes with jets for a stock WRX... 50 shot is really small and the pump can take it as it seems.

Actually, seeing that every single car is different and rects differently... get a Knocklink. Some might not get knock with stock jets from a nitrous kit... and some might; then you'd have to get higers sized jets. I'm guessing that an ECU reset will be in order before the install because I'm not sure if the advance timing will be the same with NOS on... that could also help on the knock issue by going to the default factory map.
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Old 07-31-2002, 10:42 AM   #11
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Cool... now the important question, has anybody found the NOS kit for less than 500 dollars??? I think I'm going to do it....

(thinks to himself) finally, a thread that actually has ANSWERS about nitrous....
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Old 07-31-2002, 10:50 AM   #12
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Yep!! Summit Racing man! 499.95$ do a search on part#
NOS-05132

That's the wet kit for the WRX:
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/NewsInf...NR032701B.html

Notice how they spell Impreza? F00ls
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Old 07-31-2002, 10:59 AM   #13
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I just did an internet search, and found that page actually...

That's a good price I guess... Is this easy to do for myself, or should I have a professional do it???
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Old 07-31-2002, 11:06 AM   #14
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If you're mechanically inclined and you're not the type that stresses at actually working a little in the engine bay... you can do it. Only hard part I HEARD (haven't doen it so no clue if it's true or not...) is poking a hole for the fogger nozzle... unless you don't have to poke one on the WRX but my buddy had to on his 5.0

Dunno how much time it would take either... you have to run lines under the carpet, seats and stuff too so no clue how much time a pro would take...
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Old 07-31-2002, 01:39 PM   #15
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Here is a write up of my experience with the NOS brand nitrous kit on my WRX. Hopefully some will find this useful. I know a lot of you are going to run Nitrous now that some of us have tested the waters with great results.

I have install photo’s that I can email to people that might be useful. Keep in mind that the instruction manual does not show you how to install this kit on a WRX. It simply shows you have to install an “NOS” brand kit. Car specific details are up to you… I followed my gut and where to mount items. You don’t have to follow my way… But it might take some guesswork out of the install.

Kit to order: The NOS brand import kit for the WRX/RX7 is the kit I run.

Optional items I would buy:

Soft plume nozzle: This is the newer style nozzle from NOS. The kit includes the B type that works but the new type is better for the WRX since the path into the motor is so short with a Top mount IC. Big power gains are to be had with the soft plume nozzle. Get it!

40hp jets: Smaller Fuel jet and Smaller Nitrous jet. If you are rich on the bottle you can use the smaller fuel jet. If you are lean on the bottle you can drop the Nitrous jet. 40 is enough for people running big turbo’s.

Blow down tube and Fitting. This is an aluminum tube that attaches to the side of the pressure vent on the nitrous bottle in the trunk. Wagon owners; don’t even think about running that bottle in the back without a blow down tube! If the bottle pressure gets high this valve opens and dumps ALL of the nitrous down to the ground outside the car. If you don’t run a blow down tube wagon owners can expect 10 lbs of Nitrous to be vented inside the car with them. Sedan owners can expect a frozen trunk. Most tracks require a blow down tube. P.S. You need the smaller of the two valves for the import kits.. There is a brass fitting with one of them.. That’s the one you need.

Momentary push button. NOS brand or radio shack is fine. This allows one extra fail safe to the system. To activate the nitrous you would need to be WOT with the switch in the ON position and then you would have to hit the momentary button as well.. Most wrap the wires/button in heatshrink and then hold this in your hand with the shifter… Your thumb hits the button when YOU want the nitrous to flow. I use the factory throttle body switch….

Worry wart? Order a second Nitrous solenoid. Hook it inline with the original and wire it up to the original wiring. This way, if the nitrous seal blows or the solenoid fails the other unit will stop flow. The worry is that as you are parked the seal will leak nitrous into your non running motor or if you let up off the button nitrous will still flow… with the lack of fuel and you being WOT… Scary… The chances are very LOW for this to ever happen. Its $80 for you to not worry about it.

Remote bottle opener. Its $199. I know, I know now the price of the kit is up to $900 with all this extra stuff.. But, You can open and close that bottle without having to go to the trunk. It is NOT a good idea to leave the bottle open for any extended length of time. NOS tells you to open the bottle when you use the kit and to close it right after a run… Why? 900 psi of nitrous is sitting at that solenoid at all times when that bottle is open…. You don’t want a seal to leak.

Install:

Some have installed the nozzle on the bottom of the IC. I installed my nozzle in the TB to IC rubber boot. Simply drill a hole in the boot and use the supplied brass clamp fitting. Drill the hole smaller then suggested. Rubber expands…. Keep in mind that you want the nozzle to enter between the TB and the IC metal hose ends. You will drill this hole offset a bit.. Otherwise the IC will sit back farther and will not bolt up right.

I installed my Relay on the bolt that holds the factory fuse box down next to the battery. Seemed like a good spot….

I bent my solenoid bracket 90 degrees and then bolted it to the transmission “ground” bolt under the stock IC. This is a great spot. I had the bracket mounted to the IC itself but this proved to be a real pain later when I had to remove the IC. Same goes for the nozzle. I like the boot location otherwise when you pull the IC off you have to deal with the lines and fittings.

Use liquid Teflon paste on ALL pipe thread fittings. Use a small amount and make sure you do not get ANY in the Teflon inside the lines. DO NOT use Teflon past on any of the Aircraft style fittings. If there is a cone inside the fitting it does NOT need Teflon.

Most bottle fillers will want you to have a cold nitrous bottle. Throw the bottle in the freezer for an hour or two prior to filling. I never fill my bottle over 9 lbs. I don’t want that safety valve to ever blow.. I don’t push my bottle pressure with a heat blanket or over fill the bottle either. Some places will offer to cram 12 lbs of nitrous in a rated 10 lb bottle.. Don’t do it. It’s not worth the problems.

Operation:

Start the car. Let the idle settle. Go to the trunk and slowly open the bottle. If you hear the RPM increase at all shut the bottle off and find the leak. Do this every time you use the system. When you are done making a pass close the bottle when you get a chance. If you are done using the system or plan on turning the engine off loosen the nitrous line on the bottle with a wrench to bleed the nitrous out of the line. The line that runs up to the engine contains enough Nitrous for a full 2 gear pull. That nitrous is still at 900psi give or take… It needs to be bled off manually or with a Purge valve kit.

When you are ready to spay flip the switch to the on position. I spray from 3000 rpm up to redline. When you see 3000-3500 rpm floor the pedal and feel the power. The first few hits will be soft as there will be air in the system.

Myths you will read about on the internet: (confirmed myths from NOS techline)

If you hit the rev limiter or mis a shift while on the bottle the engine will blow- Hogwash. I have hit the limiter many times on the bottle. It’s not good for extended time periods. It will not blow the motor.

If you leave the bottle full of nitrous in your trunk in the heat the bottle will blow up and so will the car – BS myth started by a famous case floating around on the internet with pics of his blown up car. The real story is that he left the bottle heater ON all night and had the safety fitting disabled. This will NEVER happen on an NOS brand kit due to the integrated safety valve. The worst that will happen is that you will have 10 lbs of nitrous vented inside your trunk, which will freeze the car. It will thaw… Install the blow down tube.. Nothing to worry about then but frozen asphalt.

If you activate the system with the engine off or at idle your engine is toast - Your engine may or may not suffer major damage. This is one of the fastest ways to blow that motor… If this happens at idle I don’t know what to tell you… If this happens with the engine off DO NOT start the motor. Pull the spark plugs out and crank the motor over several times to blow the nitrous out before starting.

Useful tips:

If you knock you can assume that you are lean on the bottle, Have to much boost and or advance. In most cases adding more octane fixes this problem. Start with a low amount of boost like 9 psi and work your way up. Keep in mind you WILL gain boost with the system ON. Expect 2-4 psi… Set for 10 and you might get 13 to 14 on the bottle. If you knock reduce your boost or increase your octane. Delta Dash owners will enjoy the timing retard feature. Removing just 2 degrees might stop the knocking.

Good luck! Hope this helps a few people… I am not an expert…. But this article was written on my experience with the NOS brand kit on my WRX.

CT
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Old 07-31-2002, 02:13 PM   #16
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hey AZ... What do you think about me upping my jets to a 75 shot instead of the 60 shot im usuing right now?? 37/22 ???
Im one of the auto guys runing nitrous and i think i can up it a little... PLus i am goign to be running the stage 4 setup with the vf-34 turboxs topmount and nitrous... so hopefully everything will workotu fine... Let me know your opinions!



Rob
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Old 07-31-2002, 02:43 PM   #17
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Damm good write up AZ....

I would really like those pictures if you had them. Also, do you have part numbers for the stuff that you ordered? I'm probably gonna do this....

mrichards@calpine.com

Thanks...
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Old 07-31-2002, 03:11 PM   #18
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RobPa, I would not run 75 on a big turbo car. Just dont think its safe unless you have the timing retard and very high octane fuel. 37/22 is the factory 50 shot for the NOS kit. I found that to be very rich. By taking the fuel jet down I picked up power while still running a 10 to 1 AF. I would run a 75shot on a mildly modified car... IE turbo back, uppipe and MBC. Just keep the boost down... Get a knocklink if you dont have one already..

WRXGuyInTulsa

I have the pics at home on my PC. I will email a few of them to you. If someone had space to put them up I could send them all. I have about 40-50 pictures of the install.

CT
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Old 07-31-2002, 03:25 PM   #19
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How about part numbers???

I'd appreciate any pics you wanna send...

Thanks
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Old 07-31-2002, 09:27 PM   #20
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Default how 'bout a 20-25 shot?

Is it feasible to run a 20 or 25 shot? How much longer would one expect the bottle to last on such a small shot?

Also, I was thinking this idea might be nice to spray in first gear from 2500-4500 RPM. It seems like a useful way to spool a big turbo (the TD05-18G going on my car flows 600 cfm), and a bottle should last a long time if the only spraying going on is a 25 shot, and only in first gear.

Any thoughts? Is this reasonable?
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Old 07-31-2002, 09:30 PM   #21
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Default Re: how 'bout a 20-25 shot?

Quote:
Originally posted by annointed
Is it feasible to run a 20 or 25 shot? How much longer would one expect the bottle to last on such a small shot?

Also, I was thinking this idea might be nice to spray in first gear from 2500-4500 RPM. It seems like a useful way to spool a big turbo (the TD05-18G going on my car flows 600 cfm), and a bottle should last a long time if the only spraying going on is a 25 shot, and only in first gear.

Any thoughts? Is this reasonable?
As far as I know on the NOS brand kit you can only go down to a 40hp shot. Other brands might offer lower kits but at that point you would have to wonder why??? 40-50 is not going to hurt anything guys..

One I-clubber had a good idea. He ordered a boost pressure switch. He sets the switch to 17 psi. The NOS works until he makes 17 psi and then it turns off. He runs 20+ on the turbo alone.. This way the nitrous helps him out of the hole and helps his turbo spool back up after a shift...

CT
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Old 07-31-2002, 09:33 PM   #22
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Default Re: Re: how 'bout a 20-25 shot?

Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie

One I-clubber had a good idea. He ordered a boost pressure switch. He sets the switch to 17 psi. The NOS works until he makes 17 psi and then it turns off. He runs 20+ on the turbo alone.. This way the nitrous helps him out of the hole and helps his turbo spool back up after a shift...

CT
Brilliant!
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Old 07-31-2002, 10:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie

I have the pics at home on my PC. I will email a few of them to you. If someone had space to put them up I could send them all. I have about 40-50 pictures of the install.

CT
I would like the photo's also.
scott_miller@progressive.com

Also would some one please host the picture so we can have all the install pics.
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Old 07-31-2002, 11:04 PM   #24
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I can host them no problem guys... thing is it depends on the size when I receive them... I can host like GIGS of stuff for free but I can only receive 5 megs maximum through e-mail (when I'm not there) how big would the whole package be zipped or something?
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Old 08-01-2002, 12:52 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubyRex
I can host them no problem guys... thing is it depends on the size when I receive them... I can host like GIGS of stuff for free but I can only receive 5 megs maximum through e-mail (when I'm not there) how big would the whole package be zipped or something?
Post or PM me your email addy and I will forward the pics to you.

CT
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