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Old 08-12-2011, 08:30 AM   #1
Unabomber
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OMGHi2U Best oil vs. Worst oil AKA does it really matter?

Car: 2004 Subaru WRX. One owner. Oil changes at 130,000 to 135,000 miles and 135,000 to 140,000 miles.

Worst oil: Walmart Super Tech 5w30 synthetic + Walmart Super Tech filter. Retail cost for parts: $20
Best oil: Bio-Synthetic Super High Performance Motor Oil SAE 5w30 PCMO + OEM Subaru filter. Retail cost for parts: $60

Worst oil change results:


Best oil change results:


Comparison:
Code:
OIL             REN5w30		I	WST5w30   
MILES IN USE    5k		I	5k          
MILES           140k		I	135k      
SAMPLE TAKEN    08/03/2011	I	03/31/11   

ALUMINUM        1		I	2                
CHROMIUM        0		I	0                
IRON            4		I	4              
COPPER          3		I	1              
LEAD            7		I       1      
TIN             0		I	0                
MOLYBDENUM      7		I	72               
NICKEL          0		I	0                
MANGANESE       0		I	0                
SILVER          0		I	0                
TITANIUM        0		I	0                
POTASSIUM       2		I	2               
BORON           12		I	124               
SILICON         5		I	5               
SODIUM          2		1       1      
CALCIUM         2234		I	1985          
MAGNESIUM       8		I	6            
PHOSPHORUS      759		I	633            
ZINC            868		I	760          
BARIUM          0		I	0        
     
INSOLUBLES      0		I	0            
WATER           0		I	0                
       
cSt @ 212F     9.5		I	8.6 
Oxidation       81		I	10
Nitration       23		I	19  
TBN             2.87		I	2.29
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:31 AM   #2
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For those of you that aren't oil dorks, here is the Cliff Notes:

If you use Wesson Oil or if you use oil made by Jesus himself, it doesn't matter!
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
For those of you that aren't oil dorks, here is the Cliff Notes:

If you use Wesson Oil or if you use oil made by Jesus himself, it doesn't matter!
ron.....myself and several notable others will disagree

100% TOTALLY disagree

your test is conclusive to YOU and YOUR vehicle and YOUR driving style and does NOT represent any other.

and it isnt a trend analysis....it is a spot sample


this makes it invalid as far as many would be concerned


Ron....Uncle loves ya....but oil DOES matter.

A LOT, it does.
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:03 PM   #4
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:31 PM   #5
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Dennis told me I should run the "Uncle Scotty has a stroke combo" AKA regular Mobil 1 + orange Fram filter. I might do so just to jab you buddy.
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:18 PM   #6
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Oh this is gonna be funny.

For the record, I ran my 02 WRX all the way to 282k HARD EARNED MILES on pretty much nothing but Mobil1 10w30 which I was told for years is "devils spit" in these engines. I'm interested to see some more results.
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_DeWeY View Post
Oh this is gonna be funny.

For the record, I ran my 02 WRX all the way to 282k HARD EARNED MILES on pretty much nothing but Mobil1 10w30 which I was told for years is "devils spit" in these engines. I'm interested to see some more results.
I ran M1 5w-30 in my 2.0 WRX without issue but in my 2.5L STi the M1 disappeared between OCIs. When I switched to Rotella T6 5w-40 I quit losing oil. That said, I'm in the camp of it doesn't matter all that much as long as you use an oil with the proper specs and reasonable OCIs.
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
Dennis told me I should run the "Uncle Scotty has a stroke combo" AKA regular Mobil 1 + orange Fram filter. I might do so just to jab you buddy.
Ron, without knowing how hard you drive the car or under what conditions, it's meaningless.
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_DeWeY View Post
Oh this is gonna be funny.

For the record, I ran my 02 WRX all the way to 282k HARD EARNED MILES on pretty much nothing but Mobil1 10w30 which I was told for years is "devils spit" in these engines. I'm interested to see some more results.
you were told or read wrong... 5w-30 is the notorious oil that ranks up there with recycled budweiser. 10w-30 is a different oil, and doesn't shear as badly.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:05 PM   #10
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I did this a couple years back with my 1st wrx with 50K miles. First change was castrol syn blend 5w-30 that the dealer put in when I bought it and the second was Shell rotella 5w-40. Same oil filter and same intervals. The rotella sample turned back superior results. I think I still have the tests somewhere around here and can scan them if anyone wants to see...
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber
Dennis told me I should run the "Uncle Scotty has a stroke combo" AKA regular Mobil 1 + orange Fram filter. I might do so just to jab you buddy.
Some of the newer SN/GF5 uoa's are looking pretty good. The new girly man oils just might surprise us. They're putting non-metallic ingredients in oil that doesn't show up in these cheap uoa's.

What you're seeing in this uoa is a good ester based oil cleaning up the crap in your engine. When Terry Dyson used to post at BITOG, he described the process as scavenging. Dave at Red Line provides similar feedback by email because people sometimes freak out after seeing their first Red Line uoa.

-Dennis
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty

and it isnt a trend analysis....it is a spot sample
Winner winner chicken dinner! I was hoping for at least one more run on the RLI.

Quote:
...it is easy to assume that by carrying out a UOA you will be able to determine how quickly the engine is wearing out. As well, if you change lubricant Brands you will be able to compare the wear metal uptake results and then make a balanced best lubricant choice to make your engine last longer.
Sadly that logic is seriously flawed.

Single pass (random) UOAs will provide some information regarding wear metals but unless you have a history of your engine’s performance up to around 1 million miles the results are simply that – UOA results!
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis/

-Dennis
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkramer

you were told or read wrong... 5w-30 is the notorious oil that ranks up there with recycled budweiser. 10w-30 is a different oil, and doesn't shear as badly.
He probably read a comment from someone making a generalization that all M1 is bad. I wish there was more data on M1 10W-30. Even though the *regular* M1 10W-30 is also Energy Conserving, it *should* be a more stable oil. It takes less viscosity modifiers for the 10W-30, and they're the first thing to get spent in an oil. I would only be comfortable with the M1 High Mileage 30 weights though since they have more anti-wear additives and have a thicker viscosity.

-Dennis
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Old 08-13-2011, 06:23 PM   #14
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I use royal purple and Im at 100k
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Old 08-13-2011, 07:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otakutrevan View Post
I use royal purple and Im at 100k
chumley......go take another nap
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Old 08-13-2011, 10:52 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
chumley......go take another nap
Awesome. LOL...

05 STi, 78K (abusive) miles numerous tunes, engine mods, etc. The company's test mule. Spent most of it's life in the low 300whp range and the last 5K in the 360-380whp range. Oil Analysis always come back with excellent results and upon teardown all bearing and wear surfaces have no abnormal wear. No oil added between oil changes. All despite running the "devil's spit" M1 5w-30 BUT oil was changed every 2.5-3k miles.

Ran the fancy german castrol and consumed almost a full quart over the OCI. Idle did not seem as smooth (placebo effect?), no change in mpg, and no significant difference in the oil analysis (that I can ramember).

IMO, driving style has much more to do with engine wear than anything else. If you drive your car after immediately starting it, get on it before the oil is completely up to temperature and do a lot of stop and go driving you'll have much more wear related issues than someone who lets thier car warm up completely, oil up to temp before boosting it, and mostly highway driving.
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Old 08-13-2011, 11:02 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Awesome. LOL...

05 STi, 78K (abusive) miles numerous tunes, engine mods, etc. The company's test mule. Spent most of it's life in the low 300whp range and the last 5K in the 360-380whp range. Oil Analysis always come back with excellent results and upon teardown all bearing and wear surfaces have no abnormal wear. No oil added between oil changes. All despite running the "devil's spit" M1 5w-30 BUT oil was changed every 2.5-3k miles.

Ran the fancy german castrol and consumed almost a full quart over the OCI. Idle did not seem as smooth (placebo effect?), no change in mpg, and no significant difference in the oil analysis (that I can ramember).

IMO, driving style has much more to do with engine wear than anything else. If you drive your car after immediately starting it, get on it before the oil is completely up to temperature and do a lot of stop and go driving you'll have much more wear related issues than someone who lets thier car warm up completely, oil up to temp before boosting it, and mostly highway driving.

and I'd bet that your tune didnt knock either

THAT is the REAL issue is the **** pisswater oil and kiddies knocking them all to hell and not changing the oil often enough


and changing **** oil every 2500-3000 miles is a waste of all involved
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Old 08-13-2011, 11:46 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
and changing **** oil every 2500-3000 miles is a waste of all involved
Speculative... You don't know if that's mostly track, dyno, city, highway, etc... So is guessing when your oil is spent. I'll err on the far side of safety, at my expense, to assure excellent oil condition. I don't see anything wrong with that since it's my $$
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Old 08-14-2011, 07:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Speculative... You don't know if that's mostly track, dyno, city, highway, etc... So is guessing when your oil is spent. I'll err on the far side of safety, at my expense, to assure excellent oil condition. I don't see anything wrong with that since it's my $$
the 3k mile oil change is a MTYH invented by the 'jiffy lube' industry to get people to do stupid things

RACE CARS are NOT street cars and people posting about RACE CARS are polluting the minds of the kiddies who are stupid and think that what is good for race cars MUST be good and right for street cars

THIS IS THE HEART OF ALL RICE

PLEASE do NOT dis service our community by mixing what YOU do with RACE CARS and what John Q. Kiddie needs to do for his street car.

This is a HUGE issue that just keeps keepin on and is the BANE of us REAL enthusiasts who get a HUGE black eye by being associated with these total morons who know nothing about cars or real performance other than in their wet dreams, strokin it to a WRC poster



If YOU want to be stupid and waste YOUR money on being stupid...go for it

but it is unnecessary and wasteful if the proper product is being used in the first place



Last edited by Uncle Scotty; 08-14-2011 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:51 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post

Ran the fancy german castrol and consumed almost a full quart over the OCI. Idle did not seem as smooth (placebo effect?), no change in mpg, and no significant difference in the oil analysis (that I can ramember).
Yes, probably placebo effect. Most people say that thicker oils run smoother (German Castrol). The difference is probably higher iron with M1 and it probably sheared to a 20 grade. And further to Uncle Scotty's post, the nut behind the wheel probably plays a part as well.

Don't try this at home kids!

-Dennis
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:14 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Yes, probably placebo effect. Most people say that thicker oils run smoother (German Castrol). The difference is probably higher iron with M1 and it probably sheared to a 20 grade. And further to Uncle Scotty's post, the nut behind the wheel probably plays a part as well.

Don't try this at home kids!

-Dennis
Agreed! Sometime I think Uncle Scotty is too grumpy for his own good, otherwise he would have realized I was agreeing with what he was saying instead of flexing his huge font skills.

So I'll say it again... car use, driving style, etc. are a significant factor here, in my less than expert opinion.
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Old 08-16-2011, 06:07 PM   #22
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Una, do you understand enough about this UOA comparison to know where each of the oils is showing strength and weakness? If you do, will you please elaborate for us?
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Old 08-17-2011, 12:06 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
For those of you that aren't oil dorks, here is the Cliff Notes:

If you use Wesson Oil or if you use oil made by Jesus himself, it doesn't matter!
i have always believed this......same with 'pump' gas.....I.E.==>all the same shtt.

think your getting flack from all the persons that cannot face that they have wasted time(posting about their oil of choice) and money(purchasing their oil of choice.)
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:50 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by AliBenn View Post
i have always believed this......same with 'pump' gas.....I.E.==>all the same shtt.
Far too much empirical evidence showing the contrary over decades now. Fuels can (and do) make a significant, measurable difference in engine cleanliness and efficiency. See BMW's valve cleanliness testing and specifications for just one peek at this.
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Old 08-17-2011, 09:13 PM   #25
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Unabomb, do you plan on running the walmart juice exclusively now? If it's just as good why not right? I think I might try it in my plow jeep for ****s and giggles.
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